Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Karen (00:00):
That’s like saying I don’t trust that it’s going to work out. I really need to totally let go of any backup plan because I’ve got to demonstrate to the universe that I’m all in. I’m completely 100% committed to what I want to do.

Guy (00:32):
Hey Guy here. Thank you for tuning into my podcast. My beautiful guest today is Karen Garton. Without keeping you into suspense too long, you know that from time to time I open up the podcast to people that have experienced our work, whether it be through our online coaching programs and our retreats as well. And she’s been on one hell of a long journey, healing journey of 13 years, she said. And she suffered childhood abuse and trauma. And from that leading all the way through to coming into our retreats and having these transcendental mystical experiences. And the podcast today is about bridging those two worlds together and trying to encapsulate somebody’s journey in an hour, which is by and large impossible, but we certainly did our best in trying to encapsulate all those aspects today. Karen was keen to come on the show as well because she really wanted to share her journey, share her authentic voice and know that there is a way out if you are holding trauma or suffering it and how trauma affects the body and how very much so there are so many healing modalities, including like the work we do, that can support people moving forward. It was a beautiful conversation. I have no doubt you will get a lot out of it today. Be sure to support Karen as well on her journey. You’ll find out more about it as you tune in today. And of course, if you’re watching this on YouTube, let me know in the comments what you think about this podcast. Yeah, click like, subscribe, do anything. And of course, if you know somebody in need, please share this episode with them as well as it continues to help get these messages out. Anyway, that’s enough from me today. Much love. Enjoy this podcast with Karen and I will see you soon.

Guy (02:10):
Karen, welcome to the podcast.

Karen (02:13):
Thank you Guy for having me here. I’m really delighted and excited to be here today.

Guy (02:19):
Yeah, I’m truly grateful for coming on. The more I lean into having people like yourself on, because I’ve had many different people who have been through the retreats or living flow experience, or at least our paths across on our journeys. And I always get incredible feedback every time I do this. So it’s something I’m just glad you’re coming on and sharing your journey today. And I have no doubt it will support others along the way. I’m going to start with a moment in time that you shared to me on the phone the other day when you said, I felt numb with your words and disconnected, I believe. And you said you were in quite a happy place, not happy place, but you had things in your life you’re okay with. So let’s start there, because I think many people can relate to that.

Karen (03:15):
Yes, I’ve shared this with a number of people who can say that they relate. And I would say that my life, I ticked all the boxes, you know, in terms of I had I was married, I had kids, I had a house in the suburbs, you know, all the things that I go, well, I’m kicking goals, I should be happy. And I just had this sense of, is this it? Is this as good as it gets? And I was having some experiences at the place where I was working. One day I dissolved into tears. And my boss said to me, what’s wrong? Like why I’d had a phone call that it just it had triggered me. I didn’t understand back then what a trigger was, that it had triggered me. And it led me on a journey to want to understand what were these emotions and why didn’t I understand them. I was I now know effectively numb. I was kind of existing in a state of not fully living and not feeling that life was giving me what I expected that there would be.

Guy (04:24):
How long ago was this, Karen? This is 13 years ago. Yeah, I can I think everyone listening can be nodding their head and relate to that right now. But that included me. Yeah. Yeah. I always say it was like I couldn’t. It was like a splinter was in my soul and I didn’t know how to get it out. That’s how it kind of felt. And there’s no words for it. At what point at that journey then did you start to consider past experiences or trauma or even future thinking spiritual practices would come into it? Because there’s there’s two aspects of that coin there.

Karen (05:03):
Yeah, and I was fortunate that I worked in a place where there was a beautiful, kind man who after I’d had this emotional outburst, he said, you know, he befriended me and said, you know, what what what’s going on and why? And I couldn’t explain it. And he made the suggestion that perhaps it was something to do with my past, that there’d been some experience earlier in my life that was still keeping me blocked, keeping me protected. And this all sounded like some weird mumbo jumbo to me because I firmly believed and you know, our beliefs, I know you teach about beliefs that our beliefs keep us stuck sometimes. And I created a belief that what had happened to me in my childhood was not important. And so I kind of put it behind me and said, you know, I’m an adult now, I’m capable. Look at all the things I’ve done in my life. I had a successful career. I had a good friendship circle, all these things that would indicate I’m doing well. Yet I had this dark trauma that I’ve never looked at. And I and I actually honestly, with all my being, believe that what had happened back then didn’t matter. But because this man said to me, maybe something from your childhood. So I started to look at it. And even then, I went, oh, well, maybe it was the relationship with my dad, or maybe it was the relationship with my brother. Or maybe it was that those incidents that happened with the neighbor where I was sexually abused. I was so dissociated from the feelings of what had happened to me that I actually couldn’t see that this was an important event in my childhood and something that was holding me back now as an adult. And there was one day at work where this man, he would often talk to me about it. And he’d say, you know, if you’re connected with it yet, if you connected it in a feeling sense, and I didn’t understand the difference between thinking and feeling. And one day he actually put his hand on my heart and looked into my eyes and he said, you need to feel it here. And it was like my energy center at that point just burst open. And all the emotion that I’d been holding back started to flow. And so that’s what that’s what got me going. Yeah.

Guy (07:34):
And that was 13 years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s a journey. No, of course it is. And one message I always try to get across is that the journey never ends. There’s just there’s always layers. But I feel when we come home to ourselves, we can really, I don’t know, bring a compassion and a humility into everything and for ourselves as we continue to move forward.

Karen (08:02):
And the thing that I’ve discovered is that in the beginning, I was afraid of these emotions because they was, you know, I’ve been pushing, I’ve been putting a lid on them all my life. And so I was afraid to feel them when I did feel it felt big and scary. But the more that I did it, the more comfortable I got with it. And now I’m actually at a point where I’m like, yeah, let’s do some transformational work. This is fun. I didn’t always feel that way.

Guy (08:33):
Yeah. So let’s talk into leaning into the healing aspects of your journey. So let’s talk a little bit about the trauma just to give context to it. Was it a one-off incident? Was it something that could you remember at the time? Were you at an age of remembering? Because in our world, you were nine. Wow. Because in our world, it’s quite common. Obviously, people are drawn to our work when they want to overcome a trauma. But beyond that world, it’s something we just don’t share with anyone or speak with anyone. And we’re holding that for such a long time.

Karen (09:09):
Yeah. Thank you, Guy. And that’s actually one of the reasons why I wanted to be able to speak on your podcast. I feel so grateful for the opportunity to speak about childhood sexual abuse because there is this silence, this taboo. And I understand. And I was one of those conspirators for 36 years. I never told anyone. So I was nine years old. It was our neighbor. He lived across the road. And it happened across one summer. So there were multiple incidences. And eventually, I worked out how to avoid him. And that was how it stopped happening. But I didn’t speak about it. And I think it wasn’t until my own sons were nine years old that I really, truly understood how vulnerable I was, how young, how easily I could have been manipulated. Because when my sons were nine, I could tell them anything. And they believed me. So I was so easily influenced. And yet I looked back on the experience from an adult’s perspective. Once I was an adult, I looked back on what happened and I’d go, oh, okay, I’m moving around in life. I don’t feel anything. And this is the other thing that’s kind of interesting, which I didn’t understand until later, that I dissociated in those moments of experiencing the abuse. I can remember clearly everything that happened. From like I’m watching a movie, I could tell you in detail what happened. But until more recently, I could never have told you what I felt in those moments. So our bodies and our minds are so clever. And so in the moment of feeling this thing that was just too big to understand as a little nine-year-old girl, my brain went, no, we’re not going to feel that. Somehow my body blocked these feelings. And so my memory is that it didn’t feel anything. Therefore, my mind formed a belief that it didn’t matter because I didn’t feel anything bad at the time. Clearly I did, but my body did this clever thing where it stopped me from having to feel that. And so it wasn’t until my boss at work put his hand on my heart and said, you need to feel. It was like he understood I needed to let these things out because it was keeping me blocked and keeping me stuck. And I really struggled to accept that that was a truth. I really didn’t want to believe that was the case. It’s human nature. I was a bit in resistance for a long time about it.

Guy (12:07):
It sounds like yes, because once you knew that, because I’m intrigued, because it’s like I’ve got you here in the podcast where we can have a conversation with others dropping in because I’m always intrigued as well because as a facilitator, the whole space for other people, I think that our moment for many people which can feel really daunting is that they have to feel, reveal, feel, and then heal. That’s the sequence of order. We’re always unaware of what’s there. And of course, I quite often see this look of shi’a terra come across people’s faces. Are you like, no, you know, what is going on? But ultimately, if we’re to truly heal, we have to start to dig into the garden bed and turn over the soil to allow it to air out. That’s one analogy of it. So once you kind of the penny started to drop for you, I’m curious to know your trajectory then in terms of resistance, feeling, you know, the wheels starting to turn in terms of, you know, horrific.

Karen (13:25):
Yeah, a friend of mine was into meditation at the time. So she took me along. I shared with her what I was going through and she asked, invited me to go along to meditation with her, which was a guided meditation. It was a, you know, a love and light, rainbows and unicorns kind of healing center, which was quite lovely, but totally new to me. So I had no clue that there were things like, you know, spirit guides or crystals or angels. So I kind of went in there a bit wide-eyed and I don’t know what I’m getting myself in for here. This could be a bit woo-woo weird, but I was also in a place of, I don’t know what else to do. Um, I wasn’t yet at a point of wanting to get counseling. I wasn’t yet at a point of, you know, wanting to take it further. So this seemed like an easy, accessible option. And right from the very first time I went, I had this beautiful experience of being able to visualize what the meditation teacher was describing. So I could drop in. I think I was, I didn’t realize it. I was so surrendered when I went there. I kind of walked in the door and went, okay, take me, do whatever needs to happen in this meditation experience. Because I don’t know how to get rid of this, you know, gunk, but I felt like I was full of yucky things. And I was just, can you do whatever you need to do to get this out of me? Cause I don’t want to feel it anymore. And one of the times I went, our teacher actually ran the meditation was about releasing trauma. And it was like, I walked in the door and I went, I can’t believe what this is. Like, thank you. I can’t believe this is exactly what I need. And she guided us through a process of being able to watch what had happened as if we were watching a screen and see ourselves having this experience. And then she invited us to feel what we felt in the experience. And by this time, I knew what my experience felt like because I’d had that after my boss put his hand on my heart. And then she invited us to take, to have it on written on a piece of paper and then take the piece of paper and burn it in a candle that was beside. And so it was a beautiful experience of being surrendered, having this visualization. And at the end, she would always give us a period of time where we could just be. So she would guide the journey and then we would come to this silent part before she would bring us out of the meditation at the end. And it was in this silence as I’m lying there, my yoga mat with all these other bodies in the room that I could hear giggling. And it was a child’s giggling, like delicious. Oh, you know, what’s that? And I realized it was coming from within me. And I realized it was the little girl. I’m going to make myself cry. The little girl in me who was happy. Happy that I validated her experience, that I’d looked at what had happened to her, that I’d acknowledged the way she felt. And I gave her an opportunity to let that out because that was something as a child that I never gave. I didn’t know how I didn’t have the words to express it. I didn’t know how to tell my parents what had happened to me. And I think as a nine year old, I was also a bit scared that, you know, maybe they’ll get I’ll get in trouble because I, and I think this is common people that experience trauma. I took on some responsibility for what happened. So it was kind of like, oh, if I hadn’t have gone to visit the neighbor, that wouldn’t have happened. So therefore, if I’m responsible, I can make sure it doesn’t happen again. So I made it somehow partly. Yeah, my fault. But the delicious laughter was just the most beautiful gift. And that was really the beginning of me reconnecting with my inner child as well. And I’m just understanding that there’s these different aspects of ourselves that, yes, I’m here now as a, you know, 50 something woman, but I also carry the energy of the nine year old girl and the 12 year old girl and the 15 year old girl. All those stages of my life still exist within me.

Guy (17:52):
But we’re not even aware, though, I know I certainly wasn’t of the energetic component. And it’s not until you start to feel it shift and move and work with it and, and I guess open your senses beyond your five senses to start to tune into the subtleties of what is available to us. And until we have that experience is still just a belief or we shut it down. How would you describe the thing? The thing that I’m fascinated with as well is people’s perceptions around trauma, because I feel like we all carry trauma. And we’re all layers living in this society in this world. And maybe different degrees of what we class as horrific. Like, you know, what you described as a new dad with a three year old daughter, it just breaks my heart. I think anything like that, you know. Yeah. How would you phrase it when people ask you, well, what is trauma? How does it affect me? How do you see it?

Karen (19:01):
Think for me, trauma is so in a moment, we have an experience. You know, in my case, sexual abuse, it might be that somebody just raised their voice. It might be, I don’t know, maybe you’re in a school room and the teacher, you know, gave you a response that wasn’t what you’re expecting to hear. So I think trauma can be a lot of different things. But in some way, it landed in me. So I felt something that my body didn’t have the capacity to process. So it felt bigger than my capacity to deal with it. And so energetically, and I’m talking about energy, when we had to explain energy when you don’t know what energy feels like, but that there was a part, and I think people can relate to emotion. Okay, you feel happy. You get this bubbly, giggly feeling inside of you, or you feel nervous. You feel your tummy do a flip. So when there’s trauma, there’s an anxiousness or a twisting or something like this, because our bodies contract. It’s like this thing that goes on. And it’s like, stop, don’t allow that feeling to come through. So it’s like push it down, push it down, push it down, and block it and don’t allow it. And so I think that that then gets stored in our body and we hold it. So every horrible thing that’s ever happened in our lives, if we haven’t allowed it the space to process and move through our bodies, then it’s stored in there. It’s stuck. And it wasn’t until much later in my healing journey that I actually started to explore some tantra work, because I was curious about my sexuality. I was curious about whether what had happened to me was influencing or impacting on my ability to experience pleasure. And so I got curious about that. But what I discovered there was that move your body, dance, move, do things that allow yourself to move whatever is in you. And it’s through creating movement that then these stuck energies have, it’s like the movement allows them then to, it’s opening a door and allows those stuck energies to get moving.

Guy (21:31):
Yeah, beautiful. Well described. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And it can also be perceived as well. We just perceive something to be as horrible and just misinterpret something and take it on that way too. It’s fascinating, isn’t it? So how did you end up at our retreat? So you’re clearly on the journey on the path. You must have been pretty open by this point and looking around.

Karen (22:00):
Yes. Yeah. So I had, I kind of got to a point, you know, you do a reasonable amount of work and I think this is where you got to where you went, I want to be able to give back. I want to be able to help. I feel like I’ve learnt many things now. And so it’d be lovely to be able to support other people too. And one of the really big things that helped me was storytelling, which might sound a little odd, but it was about using my voice. It was about coming into a space of being more comfortable with speaking about what had happened to me. So I went to a storytelling event and so through now, I’ve forgotten the question. About how you ended up coming to the retreat. Thank you. So I knew that I was about to go off on a different tangent and I knew what was wrong. I knew that I wanted to be able to bring more women to storytelling. So I host now, I host a storytelling event in Melbourne, in Bayside, near where I live. Because I know the power of speaking. Because our voice vibrates, changes our vibration in our body. And when we speak our truth, it can transform our experience of ourselves. And that was what I discovered. But I still had this, even though I was telling stories and I tell stories about my experiences of healing, we had, after I began speaking about, after I began telling people about, you know, when I was, that I’d been sexually abused, I then made a report to the police and there was a court case and he ended up going to jail. There was a conviction, which is quite unusual. Yeah. And so I went through that hole. And so there was a big, there was a process to go through and going through the court system. And ultimately, I also pursued compensation, which was something I embarked on, not because I wanted to, but because I wanted the therapist that I was seeing to stop badgering me about getting compensation. So, because I was like, I don’t need money. I don’t want, you know, this doesn’t feel right to have money. So I thought I’ll get the compensation and I’ll just pay it straight back to this support agency that I donated to them. But along the way, I discovered that my marriage broke down. I had all these changes in my life and I got to a point where I actually needed the money. So, you know, the universe works in strange and mysterious ways and brought me back to, you know, I got that money when I needed it, when I was reestablishing my life as a single woman. So I was wanting to support more people leaning into doing storytelling events. And also, I’m now working as a woman speak, speaking coach. So supporting women to connect with their voice and connect with their truth and speak from that place. But when I, so this was back in November last year, I wasn’t yet ready to do these things. And I was frightened of stepping into these, these, what I call passion projects. I had a full-time job. I was working in a school as a careers counselor and I was comfortable and I quite enjoyed the work. But I had this like, niggling, there’s something more, but I was afraid to do it. And I kept feeling like, oh gosh, life’s hard. You know, life’s a struggle and you’ve got to really work for the things that you want. You know, I had this belief, you’ve got to work, you’ve got to push, you’ve got to get out of your comfort zone and it’s got to be difficult. And I was talking to a friend and she said, you know, I think there’s a point where you can get where life will flow. I went, yeah, that I want flow. And I think it was within a week, I saw the Live in Flow ad come up. On my Facebook feed. So I went, right, that’s a sign. I’ll go. And I went to your one day mini retreat in Dandenong. I think that was in the November.

Guy (26:27):
You were in the Dandenong. Was that with the two 18 year old girls that came along and once spoke? Yes. The share circle, was that it? Or in the share? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Wow. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Karen (26:42):
Yeah. Yeah. Can I share a little bit about that story? Please, absolutely. Yeah, one of the other participants shared in the break that she’d had connection from someone who’d passed and she said, this is really weird. This hasn’t happened to me before. And she said, there’s someone here who wants someone else here to know that it wasn’t their fault. And of course, I immediately go into, we’re about to lie down to do the sound vibing, you know, towards the afternoon. So into that sound vibe, I take this thought of, gee, I wonder who has turned up in spirit to let her know that, or let them know they didn’t indicate a gender. Let them know that it wasn’t their fault. And as I lay down, I went, oh, that actually could be for me. So I said before that my marriage broke down. And that was partly, gosh, it’s complex and a long story, but partly because once I’d opened up, I had an open heart. You know, I was doing the work and I was transforming and changing. And I’m saying to my husband, come with me, come with me. Come to meditation, do all these things. And it just wasn’t his bag. And I look back on when we got married, we were a perfect match for each other because we were both closed. We were both, you know, shut down. But I got on the journey and he didn’t. So but, and then after we separated, he, sadly, he got a cancer in his throat and he passed away. So he came, he was there on that, at Daniel to say, it’s not your fault. Because I was kind of in a place of gosh, you know, if our marriage hadn’t ended, if I hadn’t done all these things, if, if, if, you know, maybe he’d still be with us, which of course is a crazy thought because we’re each on our own journey. We’re each doing our own thing that he came through that day. And I had a very strong sense of him being there with me. I could feel his presence. And I spoke to that woman afterwards when we’d finish. And I just said, thank you so much for, you know, saying what you felt a bit afraid to say. That sounded like a little bit of cuckoo, you know, weird stuff.

Guy (29:20):
Wow. Because I didn’t realize that was you. See, I remember the two girls because I just remember what a gift to be coming in at your age and leaning in because we just for the listeners, we hold a meditation before lunch. And she came up to me just like deer in the headlights, like really shy and timid and come up to me and she said, look, is this normal? I got beyond my senses and I started ancestors and people started wanting to communicate through me. So you’re very open. It can be very normal. And I think then she took courage from that and she shared then what that message was to you. Really? Wow. That’s mind blowing. So you had that experience in the one day.

Karen (30:04):
Yeah. And with also with the one day experience, I had a sense of the roof lifting off, which sounds a bit dramatic, but just like everything, the roof dissolve. And I think Matt said something about, you know, imagine that, you know, you can go up to out of, you know, beyond. And so the power of suggestion, but I just had a sense of there’s nothing, there’s nothing there. There’s no limitations or restraints. There’s no ceiling. And I had a sense of my body being able to float upwards, like I could dissolve into little particles and I could just float up and be in this cosmos that I was felt like I was in. It was an altered state. It wasn’t just imagination. It was something bigger and beyond that. But I also, at the same time, had this sense that my body, I was very aware that I was still laying on the floor on a mat. And I had this sense of being tethered and like I was holding something, like there was something within me that was preventing me from doing this beautiful thing that was possible, that I could just float up and be part of everything. And so after that, I went, I want more. Wow.

Guy (31:27):
Were you frightened at that point? I’m just trying to find the right words here because I’ve come across so many people now, right? And one thing is they go, oh, I’d love to have this mystical mind block. But when the push comes to shove, there’s a fear and there’s normally a snap back, right? Yeah. You got to let go. So what’s it like to fully let go? Like, how did you feel?

Karen (31:57):
Well, see, on that day, I don’t think I did fully let go. And I think that’s why I was having this experience of being partly here. But also, I was tethered. I was, you know, stuck to Earth. I was stuck to my, you know, dense energy. So I was in this in-between. And it was almost like I was given enough of an experience, enough of a taste to go you know you want more, now go sign up to the retreat.

Guy (32:29):
Yeah. Wow. So that would have been end of that was our last workshop for the year, I think that one. And then it would have been close. It would have been end of November, I think. That’s right. You would have come to the January five night retreat. Yeah. You and Danny. Yeah. Wow. So you booked in and then came. Were you nervous about coming to spend five nights with us or? Well, because I ask as well, because you’re digging into a lot of things that have been going on in your life at the same time.

Karen (32:59):
Yes. And I’d already, I guess, for me, I’d already done a lot of journeying with my mess, with my trauma. I, you know, this was 12 years on from when I’d started. And so I’ve been doing meditation. I’ve done the journey with Brandon Bayes. I’ve done tantra work where I’m, you know, shaking my body, body work, reiki. I’ve done, you know, a whole bunch of different things. So by the time I discovered you guys, I was at some point along that journey. So in the beginning, there’s kind of fear. There is definitely fear around, oh, God, what am I going to find? What am I going to uncover? And there’s almost this, I don’t want to say it like it’s too much. It’s, you know, it’s the fear of the unknown. But then at some point along my journey, I think it was when I started doing the tantra work, I kind of got to this, it flipped and I went, oh, if I keep pushing and leaning in, I get rewards. Cool stuff happens. And so I’d move from fearing it to actually, you know, it’s a bit like a high adrenaline sport. You know, you get this addiction after a while. Anyway, I want more of that.

Guy (34:24):
Yeah. You can either like buckle up and enjoy the roller coaster and for what it is, or you can just click off for sheer terror and never really embrace the ups and downs. Wow. So you both came to January and what? Yeah. So I went home. Yeah. Yeah. Please.

Karen (34:43):
Yeah. I went home from the November one day and I said to my partner, I’d encouraged him to come with me to the one day because I said, I think I’ve got a feeling. I just had a feeling. I know you’re going to like it. And he said, oh, will you go and let me know what it’s like. So when I came home and I told him about what had happened and I said, I’m going in January, like please yourself, but I’m in. So he’s like, no, no, I’ll come. I’ll come. So we both, yeah, turned out and I brought with me an intention to understand what I should do about these passion projects that were kind of, I was playing around with, I completed the training for, to be a woman speak facilitator. I was ready to run these storytelling events and host them, but I was just, you know, is it the right thing to do? I didn’t know. And there was fear in me about doing that. And so, yeah, the January retreat turned, well, I got a solution. I came home from the January retreat and I knew what to do.

Guy (35:50):
How did you know what to do from experiencing through the five nights? So when lots of different things that happened. Yeah. And you don’t have to tell, give it away. I want to go into detail.

Karen (36:03):
I know you don’t like us to give the game away, but it was in one of the, in one of the sound vibes, the music of Debbie prayer plays, often plays Debbie prayer towards the end. And in that song, this, the word namaste, namaste, it’s kind of sung in a really lyrical way. And as I’m in this kind of, you know, I’m in my super conscious, I’m floating around, I actually managed to fully connect with the all that is. You did. Yeah. So that happened. So good.

Guy (36:41):
I can’t believe you didn’t skip past that bit.

Karen (36:43):
Sorry. Well, okay. Well, let me go back there. So yes, in one of the sound vibes, I had this sense of, yeah, my, my body could just dissolve and float. And so I’m floating. I had this sense of being in the room, but that I could be everywhere in the room and that I was part of the air. I was part of the walls. I was part of the furniture. I could go beyond the walls and I was outside and I was part of the trees. And I was part of the trees on the mountain that was way over on, you know, Mount warning. I was part of everything. And, but yet I was still conscious that I was a body lying on the mat. So I had this, yeah, my body’s here, but I’m everywhere. And that we are in everything and everything is in us. And yeah, it’s an extraordinary experience. That, and it was in that experience, Matt was walking around the room with his gong and he walked past me just as he gave it a bit of a bang. And all of these little energy particles just went zoom. And I was like, I was the gong. I was like, I am the gong. So I wasn’t just feeling the vibrations. I was creating the vibrations. I was part of that whole process. It was just, yeah, extraordinary stuff.

Guy (38:08):
When, we’ll get into Debbie prayer in a sec. When you have those experiences, what do you think it, what does it do to your belief system in how you set yourself up when you come back out into the real world?

Karen (38:23):
Yeah. One of the things, oh, way to go. There is a little bit of a sense of, you know, you go on a retreat and that’s like this, you know, hearts are open. It’s this almost an elevated experience. It’s almost unreal. Like it’s so extraordinary. My experience of it was that it’s so extraordinary that it’s actually kind of impossible to bring that back in that heightened elevated state and bring it back. We couldn’t live like that. No. Yeah. So it’s like, it’s a way, it’s a wonderful to have that experience. But then I come back to my normal and go, okay, now I’ve just got a function and live life. And it satisfies my mind because my mind is, I think, often wanting to step in and support me and help me. But often my mind has a limited perspective on what’s possible because my mind is operating from all the experiences I’ve had as this earthbound, what you call meat suit, on earth. So going and having this experience on retreat, I go, oh, like, get a side mind. You’ve got no idea what’s going on. Like there’s more. There’s incredible endless possibility. And so there’s a little bit of a challenge when I come home to go, I know I’ve had an experience where I know that I have the capacity to create beyond my five senses. And yeah, there’s a little bit of it. So it helps me to stay on track with what I want to do. I’ve got this trust. Yeah, it creates trust.

Guy (40:16):
It leans into trust that there’s something far greater than us that’s holding the universe together. And we are part of that. And if we’re willing to take on board the lessons and lean in, the way will appear as we lean in and take the steps. But we always wait for the way to appear before we take the steps. And just to speak to that for our listeners, the way we kind of look at it, I look at it from a biological perspective, when you have heightened experiences and when you have that expansive state and when you have those feelings of unconditional love, unconditional bliss or compassion or gratitude or peace that we’re feeling it, we’re actually in training every cell in your body to know what that feels like. So when those heightened states come back down, we integrate it, but there’s an expansion and our body knows what to look for. So we can work towards having the default emotions of love, peace, joy and gratitude, as opposed to the default motions of guilt, shame, fear, regret and so forth. And that’s why we’re so passionate about it. So let’s jump into Debbie prayer. Because we didn’t finish that story.

Karen (41:22):
Yes. So after yeah, during one of the sound vibes, I during the playing of Debbie prayer, I heard the words differently. So instead of namaste, it was like the singer had changed the words just for me. And in my head, I heard no more starts at age, namaste, no more starts at age. And I was like, who said that? You know, it was like I wanted to look around the room who’s singing. And it was just, you know, that was my I don’t know, anyway, from wherever it comes from. And I heard it one more time, no more starts at age. And what that meant to me was I had a job at the time where I started work at 8am, which I hated, I hate if I hadn’t known it was an 8am start, I wouldn’t have taken the job because I like to do a meditation and yoga and things like this in the morning, getting to work by eight is hard. So when to hear this no more starts today, and I was like, Really? Really? What are you saying? You know, no more starts today. But I inside me, even while I was there on retreat in this, you know, elevated stage, I was like, Oh, that’s impossible. I can’t, I can’t not be working, you know, I’ve got to I’ve got to have a job, I’ve got to pay the bills and all these things. But it felt like a sign, it felt like a message. So and it was then that, well, I had some other experiences, but it was after we came home. So during one of the practices that you led, there was another woman there who disclosed that she had experienced sexual abuse in her childhood as well. And my partner and I had connected with her, he specifically had spent some time speaking with her. And when we were on the plane coming home, because we were back in Melbourne, coming back to Melbourne, we both said, gosh, you know, what, because this was I could relate to where she was, because that’s where I was 13 years ago. And I remember that feeling of when I first just first told someone that this is what happened to me, and it’s out, you know, this knowledge is now being shared. And all those feelings want to bubble up and move through. So we were both and my partner’s also experienced childhood sexual abuse, too. So we both had this understanding of where, you know, she may be at, and we wanted to help her in whatever way we could. And so I went to bed that night when we got back to Melbourne, I went to sleep with the thought of how can I help her? What can I do? And the next morning I woke up and went, I’ll write her a list of all the things that I’ve done. And I just started writing everything I could think of that I’d done meditation and Reiki and journaling and reporting to the police and just and I ended up with this massive long list. And I just went, it was this knowing it was I think I was still in this open hearted retreat bubble kind of feeling. And I just knew with such clarity that I needed to write all this down and share it. So it wasn’t purely to write this list to give to this one woman. It was I need to write this down and I need to expand it and I need to make it into a book that I can then make available. So anyone that might have experienced something in any way remotely like what I’ve experienced could read it and maybe find one thing that could support them. So I went, well, I don’t have time to write a book, I’m working. So I went, okay, as I’m lying there in bed with this list, I’m going to chuck my job in, which is a pretty big thing. But I just knew there was such clarity about this is what I need to do. So I’ve started running my storytelling events, I’ve made a plan that morning, it was kind of all happened within half an hour, I made all these decisions. And everything that I’d made the decision about that I wanted to do has happened in the timeline and sequence that it was that I thought it would. So.

Guy (45:49):
It’s amazing. I’m so happy for you, Karen, because we’ve been holding space and been part of the Fox, you’ve been part of our coaching program as well. But what I love the way yourself and Dani approach these things, you grasp the work, you understand it and you’re proactive and it’s like you meet everything halfway. It’s not like you’re just expecting something to happen, you’re creating your reality by stepping into it and meeting it head on, which is powerful. And then jumping in and jumping out when you know there’s blind spots or you need support or you’re looking at it and you’re hungry for knowledge and everything. And this accumulation of just that intention that’s driving you forward. So it’s beautiful to see. Yeah. I got to ask you, it’s extremely powerful because I remember when you were on a call between, I don’t know if it was more recently or a few months ago when you were about to do your first talk. Yeah, I had my first event. And you were coming up to it, weren’t you? And then you shared on the call. I might have just done it. I’m pretty sure there was a before and after. Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah. So I was going to say talk to that feeling of leaning into something you’re so passionate about. But of course it brings up so much at the same time. And I think we all fantasize about doing these things, but we always pull, we don’t follow through.

Karen (47:30):
Yes. Yeah. And I think that was part of the reason why I resigned from my job. When I resigned, my boss said to me, because he was like, why? And when I explained that I had these passion projects, I didn’t tell him that I was going to write a book. But I talked about the storytelling and the woman speak circles. And he understood. And he said, well, look, do you want to take 12 months? Go and do it. And we’ll have you back in 12 months if it doesn’t work out. And I went, no, I can’t do that because that’s like saying I don’t trust that it’s going to work out. I really need to totally let go of any backup plan or any, because I’ve got to demonstrate to the universe that I’m all in. I’m completely 100% committed to what I want to do. And my sense was from deep within my heart and within my soul that this is what I need to do. And I don’t know what’s going to happen beyond me writing the book. I want to develop a meditation program as well. I don’t know what’s going to happen beyond that, but I trust that there’s something there. And so this is how I went into my first. So I booked a venue and I emailed all my friends and said, come along, I’m going to run this event. And I think telling stories at another venue for years. So I was comfortable in the space and it actually hosted some of those nights with this other group. So it was something I’d done before, but coming up to it, there was so much energy alive in me. Like I could feel this kind of trembling kind of, almost, if you didn’t know any better, you’d label it fear. But for me now, when I feel a feeling like that, I go, that’s. That’s my life force. That’s my soul wanting to meet what I’m about to go and do. I’m about to go and step into a room and stand in front of I think I had about 28 women booked in for that first one. So I knew I was going to go stand in a room in front of 28 women and all their eyes were going to be looking at me, all their energy directed towards me. And so I don’t think I really fully understood this then, but I had to build my own energy in order to meet them. And then I probably talked about this, I feel like, no, completely, it would have been so easy to just say, no, I’m not going to do it. It’s too much. It’s too frightening. It’s too scary. And then afterwards, I would have been speaking on the call because I think we were doing weekly calls. And I think I would have said, you know, I’m still high. I’ve still got this adrenaline. And it was maybe two or three days after the event. It took me that long to come back down again. And it was, I think I shared this on the call too. There was a friend that messaged me. She left me a voice message the next morning. And she’d said, I woke up and there it was. And she said, you know, brilliant night. You held the space so beautifully. It went, you know, beautiful affirmation for what I’d just done. And I just burst into tears. And I remember talking about it. And Matt said, your friend is giving you permission to celebrate. Because I was so, oh God, you know, I’m so uptight about this. It’s got to go well. And I’ve got to do a good job. And all the rest of it that I wasn’t, you know, I’d failed to actually, not failed, but you know, I was missing the point of having some joy in following my passion and doing what I want to do.

Guy (51:25):
Yeah. That’s the roller coaster right there. It’s amazing. It’s such a, nothing for me anyway, that there’s such a feeling of, I can’t even put into words myself, you know, when you, when there’s something you believe in so dearly and passionately and there’s been a huge journey behind something that becomes so dear to yourself. And then when you lean in and overcome all those obstacles and fears and everything, and there’s no better way than just jumping in. You know, I always remember when I worked at the Sydney Uni many years ago, there’s this South American, this Argentinian guy used to come in and train all the time. And we got into one deep conversation one night and I was telling him about, oh, I think I’m going to leave and this and that. And, you know, my supplement company was, he just, I burned the ships and I was like, what do you want about? And he said, oh, when Cortez, the Spanish conqueror came to South America, there were like 400 of them and there was like, they had to face tens of thousands of locals. And he just burned all the ships and he said, right, we’re not going ho me. Let’s see what happens. And it’s so that saying has stuck with me ever since. And when you were sharing that, it’s like burn the ships. Yeah, you’re ready. You know, clearly, clearly.

Karen (52:45):
And I’m aware that there are a number of people in my life that think I’m crazy. But that’s okay. That’s okay. That’s okay. I would hate to get to the end of my life. And, you know, what’s this life for? One of the messages that I got while I was on the retreat is like, what if this is just all a big play? You know, we’re all just have here, having fun, you know, having an experience. And what if actually none of this really matters? And the thing that you’re meant to do is the thing that you’re most terrified of doing, or the things that people tell us we shouldn’t do. Maybe those are the things that we’re meant to do. And so, yeah, that was it. That was something else that I got while I was on the retreat.

Guy (53:31):
Yeah. Yeah. Life’s short. What different like, I mean, for me, you know, I’m sure, like, listen to this people don’t have to go and quit their job tomorrow kind of thing. No, I’m not. No, no, I know. God, no, no, no. But you were ready. You’ve been you’ve been on a 13 year journey. It’s not like, you know, you woke up the next day and just go, no, that’s it. You know, there’s a huge process to that. But I really feel like it’s though it’s in those moments, if we’re willing to, to alter the trajectory of our life and lean into those blocks, lean into those fears, big or small, because they all feel fearful to us and start exploring that it’s why wouldn’t use like six months from now, 12 months from now, where could your life be? And there’s no greater feeling than overcoming yourself or what you think you think is possible.

Karen (54:20):
Yeah, I don’t want to get to the end of my life and look back and go, gee, I wish I had have done that thing I wanted to do. Yeah. And never know. Yeah. It’s amazing. The idea that, sorry, please. Yeah, go on. Sorry. I was going to say the idea that I can through speaking, through writing, through offering something that I might be able to help, you know, other people to understand what’s holding them back in life or opening a door. I guess that’s it. Open, I know you and Matt often say this, you know, we just open the door. And I’d love to be able to, through my experience, through sharing what happened to me, if that, what I journeyed with in terms of healing, if sharing that could help other people, then that would be such a beautiful gift. And which is the whole reason why I, you know, why I quit my job. Yeah. And why I’m talking to you today.

Guy (55:20):
I’ve been on the podcast. No, it’s beautiful. And many, many people will listen to this and be very grateful that you came on to share your experience, Karen. And I have no doubt the ripple effects will continue moving forward as well. And I got to ask you, we come into the end of the show, but how does it feel to be on the podcast for the last 15 minutes? It feels good sharing, doesn’t it?

Karen (55:43):
I love it. Yeah. You know, it’s, I’m like one of those wind up dolls, you know, wind me up and I’ll keep talking. But it’s so easy. I find it really easy to speak about something that I feel so passionate about and that I’ve gone from a woman who was totally in denial that my childhood experiences had any impact on my life whatsoever to gone complete, you know, flip on that to understanding that all of our experiences have some connection back to what we’ve, you know, what we’ve journeyed within our lives and that it’s, this is, this is what’s important to to connect with ourselves, connect with what we’re not willing to look at and know that if, if through listening to this, if somebody who has had an experience similar to mine would then think, well, okay, maybe I can, maybe I can, maybe I should look at that. Maybe I can talk about that. I would say go gently, go slowly. And, you know, it’s not like rip the bandaid off in a hurry. Take your sweet time with it and just tell one person or just tell your journal, write it down, start writing about how you feel and allow it to have it course, allow it to flow from you as gently as it needs to. Because, you know, we’re all unique and we’ve all got our own way, but just create an intention. This is an interesting thing too. Back when, back before I started this, I had this idea that I wanted to start speaking about the experiences that I’d had in my childhood. Not because I wanted that, I didn’t think I needed healing. I thought I was okay, but because I wanted to have a voice and actually the voice I wanted to have was to say, childhood sexual abuse doesn’t matter. So I set an intention that I wanted to be able to speak and through that I then opened to healing and now I know that the message is the opposite. It’s curious, isn’t it, how the universe gives you what you need and not what you think you want.

Guy (57:57):
Yeah, 1000% isn’t it. And you just touch on intention. Intention is so powerful. And if we, we know deep inside of us when we’re setting the intention to change or to lean in or to make that difference. When we commit, it’s almost like we’re making a contract with the universe and the universe is ever present, the source is ever here and we’re leaning in and saying, okay, I’m going to start and set the intention and start to lean in what my soul, heart and soul truly desire. And from that, it’s amazing what can manifest and come true if we listen to that voice. Nice. Question for you, two questions to wrap it up for you. One is you speaking, you’re doing your stories every month in Melbourne. Is it a regular occurrence?

Karen (58:51):
Yes. Second Tuesday of the month at the McKinnon Hotel. It’s called Story Nights. So if you Google Story Nights, McKinnon Hotel, you’ll find my website. Amazing. Story Nights. Is it just for women? Yeah. There we go. Yeah. I’ll put a link in below. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry for the men, but yes, women only. And you know, there’s all sorts of reasons for that, which I’m happy to have a chat with anyone who wants to know why.

Guy (59:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And what’s next for you? So you’re leaning into that. You’re doing your storytelling, you’re writing your book.

Karen (59:24):
Yeah. So I’m writing my book. It’s with the editor at the moment. I’ve just got a couple of chapters to go and we’re hoping to publish that in November. So I might also give you my website. You can put in the notes for where people, if they’re interested to know when the book’s ready, they can let me, you know, sign up for that and I can let them know when it’s available. And then beyond that, I want to also create a meditation program. That’s still a seed of an idea at the moment, but throughout the book, I describe the various modalities and journeys that I experienced. So I want to create a series of meditations that kind of goes with that. So it supports that. So that will come out probably not till next year, early next year, I think. Yeah.

Guy (01:00:12):
Amazing. Congratulations. See where the space takes you. Yeah. No, no, it’s been a pleasure. And two questions left. The first one is, I always consider the listeners listening to this today and a large proportion would have been through our work at some capacity, even the one days like you had in Dandenong, or Dandenong, I should say. And always curious and open to the retreat, but unsure. What would your words of wisdom be from having experienced the retreat actually twice, going through it yourself, to that person that would be sitting there thinking, shit, do I go or not?

Karen (01:00:57):
Actually, I remember saying to my partner years ago when there was a retreat opportunity, he did a level one and he wasn’t, he said, I don’t want to do any more of that. I don’t want to do level two. I said, oh, it makes you feel uncomfortable, does it? He said, yeah, something about it, I don’t know, it doesn’t feel right. And I said, so if it’s uncomfortable, to me that says it’s something you’re afraid to do. And that’s probably exactly what you need to do. So if you’re feeling a little bit of, oh, I don’t know, that’s maybe that’s your conscious kind of going, ah, this is going to open up a Pandora’s box and all sorts of things could happen. Great. Go do it. Because you’re not feeling that. You’re not feeling those feels and that call for it. If, if it’s not meant to be.

Guy (01:01:49):
So no, exactly, exactly. I always remember that feeling is like my heart and soul is pulling me towards this. But then there’s my head’s kicking in and my belief systems and all the excuses. Yeah, yeah, no, fabulous. And then the last question, Karen, I ask everyone on the show is with everything we’ve covered today, what would you like to leave our listeners to ponder on?

Karen (01:02:11):
What would I like to leave the listeners to ponder? I think that, you know, we’re all souls on a journey. I believe that we come to earth to have this earth experience and get as much out of life as you can. Do the things that you feel called to do. In your heart and, you know, sitting on the fence and waiting for things to happen is not where life is, you know, lean in, find your edge, play on your edges and you’ll discover that life has lots more to offer.

Guy (01:02:53):
Hmm. Beautiful. Karen, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I’m truly happy to just witness where you’re going with everything. And, um, and you know, for me doing podcasts and speaking to people like yourselves and be able to have this conversation, you know, I, there’s a chapter in my life where I burnt my ship six years ago. And through that, you know, what we are creating, Matt and Petra and then seeing the impact of Rippler Effect is on to touch other lives in some way as they are on their journey to and witnessing that today is just, it’s just beautiful. So it warms my heart.

Karen (01:03:28):
Thank you, Guy. I’m sorry. I feel really privileged to have been able to come and speak with you today. You know, I feel like, you know, I listen to you all the time through your podcast, so I feel like you’re my best buddy. Um, but you know, we spent so much time together on retreats as well that, um, yeah, it’s, it’s just felt like a really comfortable and beautiful opportunity just to talk with you and all the more better that, you know, lots of people will get to listen to our conversation.

Guy (01:03:56):
Yeah. Probably thousands. So it’ll be a good thing. Yeah, I don’t doubt it. Thank you so much, Karen. Thank you. Bye.