Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Saje:
I have hours and hours and hours of recorded lectures and YouTube videos and books I can read of my dad that I could dive into even when he’s not here anymore. And I started to do that and then I really tried to live from that place. For the first time in my life, a miracle started to take place. I had a complete shift in how I perceived death in general, how I perceived his death, how I perceived my own eventual death, and how I perceived life.

You can either be a host to miracles or a hostage to your circumstances. The only thing you have control of is your attitude. One thing my dad always said to me growing up, Life’s not happening to you, it’s responding to you. There is no way to happiness, happiness is the way.

Guy:
The episode you’re about to watch has been republished. My podcast channel reaches a lot more people now and there’s certain episodes that have slipped under the radar and I wanted to bring them up for your attention because I truly feel they are worth listening to. So please be sure to let me know what you think of this episode in the comments below and of course let’s continue to connect.

Let me know where you are in the world and where you’re listening and tuning in from. I love reading it. It’s amazing isn’t it that we can do this. And the other thing I want to say as well is find out where we are. If you want to put your spiritual boots on and come and join us at one of our five day retreats or one day events around the world, links are below as well.

If you want to find out more what we’re up to much love from me, enjoy.

Guy:
Beautiful Saje. Welcome to the podcast.

Saje:
Thank you so much. It’s nice to be here.

Guy:
I ask everyone on the show, if you were at an intimate dinner party right now, and you sat next to a complete stranger. And they asked you what you did for a living. What would you say?

Saje:
Oh, you know, I, I get this question a lot and it’s kind of hard to answer because I juggle a lot of things. I’m a mom, um, first and foremost, I have a, a two and a half year old and a three month old. So, um, they take up most of my time, but I also, uh, my husband and I own a restaurant and we opened it. We own a restaurant in Manhattan, in New York, and we opened it, uh, before we had kids. So I used to work there in person all the time and do a lot of the accounting stuff as well.

But now I, I don’t work there in person anymore. Um, but I do a lot of work from home for that. So the accounting side of things and the bookkeeping and permitting and all that stuff. And then I also write, um, I wrote a book with my sister, um, the knowing, and we’ve been doing a lot of interviews on it.

We’ve done some, um, speaking engagements before the book came out. Now with COVID, we haven’t done any in person speaking engagements yet, but that’s definitely on the horizon. And, um, Yeah. So I’m, I juggled those three things mostly.

Guy:
Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. A busy, busy life. What, how has the, um, how has the book been received so far?

Just out of curiosity. When did it come out?

Saje:
You know, it came out May 11th, um, of this year and it was, uh, it was actually a really cool date because our, and it, we didn’t pick the date. Our publishing company selected the date and it was the day after my dad’s which was May 10th. It would have been his 81st birthday.

It was also mother’s day in the U S and, um, there was one other thing that I can’t think of, but anyway, it was just a, it was a cool date that they ended up selecting. It was like a meaningful weekend for us. And, um, in these past few months, since it came out. It’s been really well received. We’ve had, um, we’re on our third printing with the publishing company, but more than that, um, I’ve received so many heartfelt messages from people that I know and that I don’t know telling us how much the book impacted them, um, how You know, there have been people who said I was skeptical to read this because I was a fan of your dad’s but I you know couldn’t imagine that his daughters could produce something that would level up and They said it’s not so much that it leveled up.

It’s just our own take on it, you know, and um And it, it, it provided an insight to them that was meaningful. So yeah, it’s, it’s been great. It’s been so wonderful to hear people. I had somebody tell me the other day that they, she gave a, my friend gave a copy to her friend and, um, her friend read the book and said that she had had a bad relationship with her father, majority of her life and was not speaking to him.

She’s an adult now and they haven’t spoken in years. And after reading it, she reached out to him. And she gave him a copy of the book and he read it and now they’re working on their relationship and they’re speaking again and they’re, um, you know, they’re working things out. And yeah, I know, just things like that.

I mean, it moves me so much to think that the work that we put into this is impacting people’s lives in a positive way. So.

Guy:
Yeah, no, fantastic. Good on you. I mean, I hear stumbled across you on the heel podcast because I had Kelly on the show a couple of years back and, and I was like, Oh, you know, and I really enjoyed what you had to say and hence why I reached out and see if you’d, you’d come on the show.

Yeah, yeah, it’s powerful, isn’t it? And, um, I’m intrigued just listening to what you were saying there when you were releasing the book then for yourself personally, were there any concerns because your dad was so. Well known and he had written so many books and here’s his daughter now bringing her peace into the world Was there any concerns in yourself around that or was it like no, I’m ready.

I’m bringing my yeah I mean my own identity other kind of thing,

Saje:
you know, I didn’t really feel concerned about that because I don’t view it as, um, some people have said, Oh, you’re stepping into your father’s shoes. You’re carrying on his legacy. I don’t think of it that way. Um, carrying on his legacy, maybe a little bit, but I don’t feel that I’m stepping into his shoes.

His shoes are huge. You know, I don’t intend to fill his shoes. I’m, you know, I’m almost 32 years old and, uh, He had a whole lifetime of us, incredible career and, um, studying and all the learning that he did. And I’m not there and I’m, you know, I’m younger and I just wanted to put on paper the things that, um, cause when I lost my dad, when he passed away, It was very sudden, and it was, um, for me, it was really the first time in my life that I experienced a profound loss like that, and it was the first time that I was, um, really struggling, and with what I believed in what, you know, I grew up with my father’s teachings and, um, Heard them all the time, but they never really applied to me in the way that they did after he died.

So for the first time I was sort of, uh, challenged to, could I follow the things my dad taught or was I just going to, uh, believe and feel that he was gone and that death is final. It’s the end. And so, um, I felt like I was at that crossroads and I, you know, Eventually decided to dive into my dad’s works and and luckily for me, I mean, people lose people all the time and they are left really with nothing but their memories and photos and things like that.

But I have hours and hours and hours of recorded lectures and, um, You know, YouTube videos and books on tape or, and, and books, I can read of my dad’s that I could dive into even when he’s not here anymore. And I started to do that. And then I really tried to live from that place, um, for the first time in my life.

And I, and, and miracles started to take place. I mean, and I had a whole, I had a complete shift in how I perceived death in general, how I perceived his death. Um, How I perceive my own eventual death and how I perceive life. And I just started to write about it because I’ve, you know, I realized that I had a unique perspective because I was raised on these principles.

A lot of people have to, at some point in their life, seek out spirituality. But from, from day one, we’ve, I’ve been exposed to, um, The teachings that my dad raised us on, so I, I felt like I had a unique perspective and I wanted to write down my experiences and eventually I didn’t intend to write a book when I started writing, but it eventually turned into a book.

And it turns out my sister Serena was also being called to write during this time. And so, um, at a certain point we talked about that and we just compared some notes and we realized, you know, why don’t we put this together and make a book? And that’s kind of. How it started.

Guy:
Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Now you’re, you’re sparking so many questions in me because, um, I’ll go in this direction because I often think about on my own journey.

Okay. I’m like, I grew up in the valleys of Wales, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was a tough journey. Life hard. Yeah. Hard upbringing. You know, I was playing rugby.

Saje:
I, I’ve actually been to Wales.

Guy:
Oh, have you? Yeah. Yeah. I have . I’m sure. I’m sure it was kind to you. I’m sure It was kind, it was beautiful. It was beautiful.

I didn’t expect it to be as beautiful as it was, but, um, but I only spent a couple days there, so. Right. Okay. Yeah, no, it is a, it is a stunning place, you know, and, and, but I guess the, the point I’m making is that, um, growing up. I, I lent into rugby at a very young age of six or seven and it was the rugby that actually kept me on the straight and narrow to a degree.

Well, you know, there was a lot of, um, I guess, temptation into the wrong things around me constantly, you know, and I had no idea of spirituality. I mean, I never went to church. I wasn’t brought up religious. I had very loving parents, fortunately, which was, which I think. Got me through it all. But I just didn’t, I wasn’t aware of any of this existed.

But there was always something in me that was pulling me to it that fortunately I think I could hear enough to listen to, to, Uh, act from that place as opposed just from the mind of what everyone was conceiving to be telling me. So I find it fascinating from your perspective, and I’d love to know more because you actually grew up from day dot into a very spiritual family, you know, and And, and I, I just wonder what, what was that like for you?

Was it, was it a case of, you’re so, so accustomed to it, it might be in part of you just feeling it was just philosophy, but you would go and go about it, or was it really ingrained in you in a way that, um, It was so normal that when you look upon the outside world to everyone else, you’re like, what are all these crazy guys doing? You know, you know, there’s another, there’s this aspect to life too.

Saje:
You know, ironically, it was a little bit of both. Um, because like I kind of touched on, I hadn’t experienced, I had a pretty smooth sailing life.

I had a wonderful family, um, a supportive family. Uh, I grew up in a nice area, so I hadn’t experienced anything. That challenged my beliefs until my dad died. Um, when I was 25 and it was very sudden. I had been with him actually in Australia and New Zealand, uh, the three weeks before and before he passed away, we, we flew back.

I flew back to the east coast, uh, to New York and he flew back to Hawaii and he died 48 hours later. I had just been with him for three weeks. He was on a speaking tour. He was so full of life. He was giving, you know, full day lectures, full weekend lectures. Um, I sat through all of them. So I was really immersed in his teachings in the days that led up to him, uh, you know, leaving his physical and So when I was sitting in those lectures and, you know, throughout my whole life, as I sat through his lectures and just had him as my father, I thought what he talked about was inspiring and beautiful.

And I wanted to believe in it, but I never, I never was challenged before that. So when it came to this point in my life where I was feeling challenged, you know, because when you lose somebody, It feels like they’re gone initially. I mean, it’s just, so I just kept thinking like when I would be in these throes of grief, I would have this thought of just call dad, you know, cause that’s what you want to do so badly.

And then you realize that you, you’re never going to do that again. And it’s so heartbreaking. Um, and going through that pain and that grief. I at first just felt like he’s gone. I mean, there’s no way he’s ever going to be with me in a way that feels the way that it used to, that feels, uh, where I’m going to know that he’s there and, and things like that.

And all I could think about was the never again, the should haves, the could haves, um, fear based thinking basically is what I came to realize, uh, until it got to a certain point where I’ve, I felt like I was torturing myself with these kinds of thoughts. And I, um, I said to myself one day, okay, Sage, you’re never going to call dad again, but you have a lifetime of knowing him of.

You know, being loved by him, speaking to him, calling him when you’re having problems and on and on, uh, what would he say to you? You know, if you could speak to him right now. And I felt like for the first time I got like, um, I felt connected to him, you know, for the first time. And I felt like I could hear him saying to me, uh, a story that I had heard him say many times on this trip in Australia.

In fact, uh, it’s a story about a man whose son goes off to war. And, um, one day the, the father gets a knock on his door and it’s somebody knocking on his door to tell him that his son had passed away in war and he had died. And that night the, the father went into the town and he went to a party and he was dancing and celebrating.

And, um, a neighbor who knew what had happened, who knew that his son had just died that day, or that he just learned of it that day, Um, came up to him and said, I don’t understand. How could you be dancing? You just found out that your son passed away. And he responded, um, sooner or later, I’m going to have to move on from this, or it’s going to kill me.

And I’m just choosing sooner. And I heard my dad tell that story a million times. And as I asked him for help, that’s what I thought of. That’s what came into my mind. And I felt like I was sort of communicating with him in a way. I felt connected to him. Like he was telling me, giving me permission to choose sooner.

It doesn’t mean, and I think that that story is a metaphor. It’s not, it doesn’t mean you. Stop grieving in one day because grieving is important and those feelings are important, important. It’s just, uh, it was, for me, it was permission to feel joy. While I grieved permission to, um, raise my vibration, you know, I didn’t have to say, stay stuck, stay down, stay, you know, in this sorrow of grief, I could go to the places of joy at times too.

And, and when I started to do that, um, when I gave myself permission to do that, I felt more connected to my dad and I felt like I could, um, feel his energy. I felt not only that, though, I started to. Recognize and encounter some miraculous like signs and synchronicities. And I started to recognize that, um, and, and reflect on things that happened before he died, that let me know that he knew his time was coming and that his death was imminent.

You know, in perfect divine timing. Uh, I remember him telling us, uh, speaking about one time when I was there about how, you know, we all come here to this earth with a round trip ticket. And we celebrate so much the first leg of that trip, you know, a birthday, we celebrate it for our whole lives, our birthday, you know, when a baby is born, it’s new life, it’s exciting.

We don’t question it. Um, But then comes the day that your, you know, return ticket is called due and, and we leave. And, um, he used to say, you know, this is our home, but this is the classroom here on earth. And we leave to go home. And I really do believe that I think we come here to learn and to grow. And then when we leave, we go home and we know it.

Um, but anyway, that the idea that we have this round trip ticket and, um, and that. We should try not to question the day that we are called to go back home because, uh, It can be celebrated in the same way that the birthday is celebrated. It’s a perfectly divine, divinely orchestrated event. And when I started to get in touch with the, that idea, you know, that, that his death was on time, I didn’t need to question it.

I didn’t need to wonder what What if I had been there with him? You know, my dad had a heart attack at in his in a hotel room. And, um, what if I had been there? What if he had had the heart attack when we were in Australia and I was staying right next door to him in a hotel and we could have, you know, so many thoughts like that, I started to let go of those kinds of thoughts and to, um, Accept and, and to know in my heart that it was his perfect timing.

Uh, a couple really cool, synchronistic events. I mean, one of them was that, um, the, the, my father, I was fortunate enough to have a father who paid for my college education and after college, I decided to get, um, a master’s degree and he said that he would also pay for that, which was, um, You know, I realized how fortunate I am.

So it was the, my dad had a way of paying for all of his kids tuition. And that was to, uh, give a check for, to me personally, or to whoever it was for the tuition and for the living expenses for that whole semester. And we were to, you know, pay the tuition to the school and then use the rest of the money to live off of for the semester.

And, um, he had done it. That exact way for I’m his eighth child. I’m the youngest. So for all eight of us, he had paid our college tuition this exact same way. And the so in January, before my master’s program was starting, he gave me a check for the for the semester for tuition and, you know, to live off of.

The way we had always done it January of 2015. And then in February of 2015, like two weeks later or less, um, he called me and he said, Saje, I just want you to know that I just mailed you a check for. Your remaining four semesters at NYU. And I want you to deposit that check and make sure that you budget it correctly, because it’s got to last you a long time.

And he was very serious when he was saying this to me, very somber. And I said, Dad, why are you doing that? That’s so much money. You know, I live in New York city. I go to, I went, I went to NYU. It was a lot of money, more money than I had ever even thought of having at one time. And, um, he said, Saje, I insist that you take the money and you deposit it.

And I was very uncomfortable and I kept saying, but dad, just tell me why. I mean, why can’t we just keep doing it the way we’ve always done it? I feel guilty taking that much money from you. And he said. And I’ll never forget, um, how he said it. And I could hear it in my mind. He said, if anything were to happen to me, I want to make sure that I fulfilled my promise to you, my youngest daughter, who my only child, who’s still in school, uh, of finishing your master’s degree and of paying for it for you.

So, uh, I want you to take that check and deposit it. And I remember saying, but dad, nothing’s going to happen to you. You’re, this is crazy. You’re healthy. You’re young. And it made me uncomfortable and it made me upset to hear him talking like that. But I did take the check and I did deposit it. I actually opened a separate checking account so that I wouldn’t think I was like, you know, miss money bags over here.

And, um, you know, anyway, eight months later, he passed away. And he would not have been, he would not have fulfilled that promise of, you know, paying for my graduate school. And part of somewhere in him knew that his time was coming. I don’t think he consciously knew. I don’t think if you would have asked him, that’s what he was, that’s what he consciously was thinking.

But, uh, he had a knowing within himself that his time was coming due and it was, you know, he wasn’t sick. He was, He was perfectly healthy and so when I reflected on that, it gave me a lot of comfort to think that his soul was preparing and there were other things. There were so many things that indicated that his soul was preparing. And that it was all in perfect divine timing.

Guy:
Absolutely. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. Do you find, or do you feel, or what are your thoughts, I should say, in, because you, you talk about miracles and synchronicities and all these things and signs that we can see to, to especially draw comfort from, from, from something to help us overcome something as well.

What do you, what do you think of the defining factors from? been aware enough to see them, to them slipping right by, because when we’re in grief, when we’re in pain, when we’re in dark places, which I’ve certainly been as well, it’s, it’s very difficult to even poke your head up to think there’s another way, you know?

Saje:
No, a hundred percent. I think that, um, the, a big part of it is just being open to it. I think because Serena and I talk about this a lot in our interviews, because we both have had friends and loved ones who’ve asked us because we’ve written this book. Now people like to talk to us when they lose somebody, you know, and, um, I had a friend who just recently read our book, and she got married, um, just a few weeks ago, and she read the book just before that, and she texted me.

I wasn’t able to go to her wedding, it was in California, and I have a newborn, and it just wasn’t going to work out, but, um, she, she texted me after the wedding, and she said, I have to tell you, you know, her father passed away when she was 16, so 15, 16 years ago, and she said, I have never thought To ask my dad for a sign or to look for signs from him.

I just felt like he was gone when he died. But she said that she read our book and she thought about that and thought like, well, I mean, I can, and my, their dad can give them signs and be open to this. Sort of idea that he’s still with us. I can too. And she, uh, she said that every single day she has seen a monarch butterfly since she read our book and since she asked her dad for signs and on her wedding day, she said to her dad, you know, in her mind and her prayers, she said, if you’re going to be with me, let me know with a butterfly at the wedding.

And she sent me a video of a monarch butterfly trailing her on her walk down the aisle. To get married as if it was walking her down the aisle and, um, But you know, if three, three months ago, she wouldn’t have ever experienced that because she just wasn’t looking for it and she wasn’t open to it. So I think that that’s a big part of it.

You just have to, uh, it was true for me too. I mean, like I said, those early weeks, I was not open to receiving signs. I was very much in a low place in my grief and I wasn’t. You know, I wanted to receive signs and because I grew up with the parents I did, I was aware of that, but I wasn’t actually open to it.

I hadn’t opened my heart up to that, um, idea, but it didn’t take me long and, and then I, I started to receive so many signs and synchronistic moments and recognitions that, you know, everything was on time.

Guy:
Yeah, beautiful. And I’m, I’m curious as I’m listening to you talk more, I want to lean into the book and you’ve called it The Knowing, um, 11 Lessons to Understand the Quiet Urges of the Soul.

What, why did you settle on that title, especially The Knowing?

Saje:
Yeah, so, um, we didn’t have a title in mind when we wrote the book. And, um, We, when we compare, you know, eventually joined our writing and created this book, we still didn’t originally have a title, but as we combined our stories and looked at, um, common themes, we found that this idea of having an intuition, a knowing, a higher self was really weaved throughout so much of what we had already written about.

And, um, You know, the knowing we like to define it as, uh, it’s like your inner lighthouse, it’s always there. You know, all you have to do is look for it. It’s guiding you. Um, and there’s so much in our lives that can get in the way of tuning into and connecting with this inner higher self. Uh, so part of the book is, um, part of the small parts of the book are just how to connect to your knowing and, um, how to, how to.

You know, drown out the extra noise and, and surrender to the situation that is your life instead of fighting it and resisting. And, um, yeah, just be settled on the title because it was, it felt like it was already the title, you know?

Guy:
Yeah, totally, totally. And you have 11 lessons, and I’m curious to see, because when I, when I was writing them down, the one thing that jumped out at me straight away was the first one, what is this teaching me?

And, um, I’d love you to speak to that a little bit, because, you know, Especially with the way the world has gone at the moment, you know, it’s been, it’s been, it’s been a challenge in 18 months and of course we can quickly become victims of circumstances.

Saje:
Yeah, exactly. Um, I, uh, when I, I like to think of the line, you know, you can either be a host to miracles or a hostage to your circumstances.

And, um, by miracles, it can be just growth. I mean, it doesn’t have to be some miraculous event. It can just be growing as a person. And, uh, I think the way to transition from being a hostage to your circumstances to a host to miracles is to shift your perception. And it sounds simple, but you know, a course in miracle says a miracle is a shift in your perspective.

That’s all it is, is your circumstances don’t necessarily change, but the way that you’re viewing them changes. And it’s, that makes you a different person. You, you know, you’ve grown then when you can, um, Our dad wrote a book called change your thoughts, change your life. I mean, choose different thoughts, choose a different perspective.

And it’s not always that simple. It takes work is what I’m saying, but I do think it is that simple, but I also completely agree that it takes work. And sometimes when you’re caught up in your circumstances, it’s like, well, easier said than done, you know? Um, and we’ve all found ourselves. In situations that are outside of our control.

And what can you do then? Well, the only thing you have control of is your attitude. Is the thoughts you’re thinking about your, if your situation is completely outside of control, outside of your control shift, what’s within your control, which is how you’re responding to it. And, um, because you know, one thing my dad always said to me growing up, life’s not happening to you.

It’s responding to you. And so when you shift who, how you’re responding to life, it will, your life will shift, you know, um, I remember when I found out that I was pregnant for the first time, um, my husband and I. You know, we knew what we were doing. We’re adults. We knew what could have happened, but I was still shocked.

I was very shocked, and I was shocked in not a good way. Um, I hadn’t really thought about, and I think a lot, a lot of women I’ve spoken to Can relate to this. You start thinking like, Oh, we’re married. Let’s, you know, let’s stop. Let’s pull the goalie and see what happens. And then it happens and you’re kind of like, what did I do?

You know, what’s my life about to become? And so in those early days, when I found out I was pregnant, I was honestly a little bit terrified. I just kept thinking about how my life was never going to be the same. And, um, and I kept thinking about how, you know, I had been living this great life. I was.

Traveling, you know, cause my husband and I own a restaurant and so I could kind of make my own schedule. Um, I wasn’t traveling with him cause that was hard to do when you own a business, but I was traveling with friends and I was just really enjoying where I was at in life. And then all I can think about was how that was coming to an end and I was not going to be happy.

And, uh, it was not until I read a part of Marianne Williamson’s book. Um, I forget it. The title right now, but there’s a chapter in one of her books about surrendering and, um, You know, removing that when you’re resisting life, you’re not going anywhere. You’re, you’re stuck. And I recognize like, I’m having this baby, um, and I know I’m going to love him.

So let’s just stop with all this nonsense about all the never again, then how my life is going to suck from this point forward. Cause it’s just, it’s probably not true. And, um, I, I surrendered to where I was in my life, and it was at that point that I started to allow the joy, the joys of, you know, soon to be motherhood to come into my life, whereas before that I was going into sort of like a depression about, um, What was to come.

And I remember after my son was born, um, I heard the quote, There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way. From the Tao to Ching. It’s a quote we’ve all probably heard a million times. It’s in, you know, fortune cookies and it’s, it’s not, um, It’s something I’ve heard a million times, but it resonated with me for the first time.

And I, I recognize that, you know, there is no way to happiness, staying on without children and traveling and all that. That was not the way to happiness. And being a mother also was not the way to happiness, but happiness is the way, you know, I bring the happiness to people. Where I am in my life, and therefore it’s a happy life, you know, I bring the happiness to being a mother.

I could sit here and choose to see this as you know, I’m my life. My world has gotten very small. It’s you know, and I could see that as a bad thing, or I could just see it as this beautiful time in my life that’s going to be fleeting and that I’m probably going to miss one day and just surrender to that and and dive into it.

And when I did that, um, I started to experience all the joys and exciting things that were going on in my life that I was, prior to that, I was blocked off from, you know.

Guy:
You know, I can so relate, even being as a dad now, and about to become a dad. I went through the same kind of emotions, to be honest with you. You know, and I remember a pivotal point. Because, um, myself and my wife were trying and, um, we had a miscarriage and it was the first time that, that’s okay. And it was the first time I realized, I was like, Oh my God, I actually, I really wanted this where before I was so, Oh my God, you know, in that place and it really moved me in a way.

So when, um, my wife felt pregnant again, um, I would. I remember just walking around embodying what it’d be like to be carrying a baby or what it’d be like to, to being a dad. And I would speak to young dads if I saw them in a cafe and, and just really started to embrace those emotions and feelings that come of it.

And then when I finally became a dad, it was, it was a beautiful experience where I knew that it was so easy to fall into that. That resistance and, and just freak out and focus on all the things that, you know, you could be losing, not gaining.

Saje:
Right. Right, it’s just a shift in perspective and it can make all the difference.

Another thing that I, this idea that I bought into when I found out I was pregnant, actually, uh, I bought into this idea that, Um, I could never have a career. I thought, um, all right, my chances at having a career are done. I, you know, I have eight months left until, uh, I better make it in the next eight months or that’ll just never happen.

I, I had this idea that I couldn’t be a mother and have any kind of career. Ironically, those, that idea that I bought into is what pushed me and Serena, what pushed me to push both of us to get the book out here, out there. I, I contacted, we had sort of let it fall by the wayside at that point. And, um, I contacted the literary agent that we had been working with and the publishing company.

And I said, okay, we’re ready to do this now. And I didn’t tell them why, but I just said, we want to do this now. Cause in my mind, I thought I have a ticking time bomb until. I can’t do this anymore, so I better get it done. You know, we put some, it’s a, I was proud of the work that we had put together. We just, you know, life got in the way at one point, but, um, and then my son was born and it turns out none of that was true, but it was the push that I needed.

And, uh, I now like to think of it, cause I think I thought like, you know, I have to find my purpose and. When I found out that I was pregnant, I thought like, well, that’s now going to be my purpose. And this other purpose that I thought I wanted of having a career and writing this book and getting my, My message is out there.

It’s not going to happen anymore because I can only have one purpose. And since having my children, now I have two, I realized that, you know, I like to think of purpose sort of like happiness, like what we were just talking about. It’s, Uh, it’s not a destination. It’s not one thing that you’re going to discover.

It’s, it’s, it’s a lifelong journey. Your purpose is going to shift and it’s going to take on different meanings as you enter into different phases of your life. I mean, I think that so many of us have this pressure, like I have to find my purpose and I, I used to buy into that idea and now I recognize that I’m living my purpose every day.

And it’s. different right now than it was five years ago. And it’s going to be different five years from now. Um, but I think you should try. I now try to find purpose in everything that I do. You know, when it’s, I’m sitting here doing an interview about our book, this is my purpose. And when I’m being a mother to my children, that is my purpose.

And when I’m writing, that is my purpose. And that I have, my purpose is dynamic. And it’s not one thing that I have to find. And because it’s like, what, then when you retire, you, you don’t have purpose anymore. Um, no, I think there’s purpose in every phase of our life. And it’s just up to us to view it that way.

Guy:
I’m so happy you said that. I only had this conversation yesterday with someone that was saying felt stuck and trapped and all the time because they can’t find their purpose. And, and, and because it relates back to happiness is the way, isn’t it? Exactly. I, I think of like if you see a little child It’s not the stick gives them joy, like they can get fun out of anything.

It’s that they bring in the fun into playing with the stick. Exactly. You know?

Saje:
Right. You bring your purpose. You bring the happiness. You know? It’s just a shift. Um, I know, because I, I, I used to buy into that idea, like, well, if I don’t find my purpose by this age, and, but how, uh, how, what an awful way to view it, because then somebody who’s 45 or 55 or 65 is thinking, like, I missed the boat, like, no, I think we’re always living our purpose, you bring your purpose to what you’re doing, and therefore it’s your purpose, and therefore it’s meaningful.

Guy:
Massively. My old mentor used to say to me, because I was going through this, this phase and transition myself, and like, you know, I don’t feel happy. And it’s like, well, if you’re striving for this over here with the elusive golden carrot, that’s your purpose over there, then what you’re saying right now is that you’re actually not whole and complete, and you’re only going to be whole and complete when you get it.

Right. Right. You know, and that’s a, that’s a very different place to be coming from, except you actually have everything you need right here, right now, in this moment, if you want to go there.

Saje:
So many of us attach our happiness to, um, an outcome. You know, it’s 10 pounds away when I, if I just could lose 10 pounds, I’ll be happy and I’ll go out and then I’ll meet somebody or. You know, and I used to do things like that and I’m sure I still do. But, um, or it’s 10, 000 away or it’s, you know, um, it’s, it’s when I get married, then I’ll be happy or, um, you know, but happiness, it’s, it’s, it’s the journey, you’ve got to find it along the way. And then often you. It leads you to the things that you are wanting, but if you’re attaching your happiness to that destination, you know, it’s like it’s a ironic twist of events, but it’s when you let go and surrender that often I think the universe gives you what you’re seeking.

I can remember one time my dad was on stage and They had put, he had asked them to have some sort of moving water on the stage. So they made that happen for him. They made a little like stream on the stage and he, he put his hand in the water and said, you know, if you want to experience the water, what do you have to do?

You know, if I want, if I want to have this water, I want to feel it. If I stick my hand in there and I try and grab it and with my fist and pick it up, it’s just going to all fall out. And it, and it, but if I can. Relax my hand and become one with the water and flow with it. Then I really get to experience it.

And, um, I think it’s a metaphor for life, you know, when you’re clinging to something, you’re clinging to an outcome. You’re basically saying to the universe, I don’t really have this because if I don’t hold on tight, it’s going to be gone, you know, versus relaxing into your circumstances, whatever they are. Um, I think you then allow yourself to experience either the growth or whatever it is you’re there to experience, because I believe that we all go through life, the things that happen to us are on purpose, and they’re for us to, you know, we’re here to grow. So, Whenever you can catch yourself and say, instead of saying, why is this happening to me, why me, you know, getting into that victim mentality, try to shift from that to what is this here to teach me, how can I grow from this, you know, and just being open to it, it’s, it’s similar to the signs and the synchronicities, just being open to the idea that you can grow, learn, change, and become happy.

In the midst of your troubles and trials and tribulations, um, I think creates the pathway to that. Just being open to it, even if you can’t see it, just deciding to be open to it.

Guy:
Awesome. Yeah. Just a quick question for you, um, before we change gears as well, that occurred to me as well. Now, now that you’re, you’re a parent, you know, you’ve got two children and, uh, myself 15 months old, 16 months, I think Ava is now, um, how, how do you see, Or feel, um, instilling these principles into your children, like if you had to do a footnotes of what your parent in hopes to turn out like, or if they became 21 and could look back and say, Oh, my parents, you know, did this, this, and this for me, how would that look?

Because obviously I embody this work. I do my best. I fall from grace every day. But when I see my daughter, I think, Oh my God, like, you know, it’s really going to challenge me at the same time.

Saje:
Right. It reminds me of, it’s actually behind me on a canvas and I’m in my son’s room right now, uh, doing this interview and on a canvas, I have this poem by Khalil Gibran that says your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of life’s longing for itself. They come through you, but not for you. Um, and it goes on, and I don’t know the rest of it, but that, those first few lines, I try to remember that every day. They’re not mine. They are their own people, you know? And, um, my grandma used to say, You guide and then you step aside.

Uh, my parents really embodied that. They didn’t put pressure on us to be any certain way. They, um, they supported who we wanted to be. There was no pressure to have a certain political, you know, affiliation to date somebody who, you know, Had a certain, you know, who looked a certain way or who was a certain religion or, um, there was no pressure to go to college or, you know, they really just supported who we wanted to be.

Um, and they, I mean, when I think when you have eight children, you recognize they’re all so different. They don’t come here for you. You know, they come here to be loved by you, but they don’t come here to be something for you. And I think when you can give that gift to your children of, I love you, regardless of who you turn out to be or what you decide to do with your life, what, you know, what small decisions you decide to make every day.

I love you no matter what, um, that that’s, That’s what I hope to do. That’s what I hope my kids can look back and say, my mom always loved me, always supported me. Um, you know, of course you set a good example and you can, and you know, I have a two and a half year old, so. It can be challenging and it’s different when they’re toddlers than when they are teenagers, you know, I think you, you set and you guide in a different way, but it’s still, um, always just letting them know that they’re loved.

I just read that in a, I was reading a blog about like, how do I discipline a two year old, but doing it from love? I don’t want to. Be yelling at him, but you know, they’re always doing bad things when they’re too, not always, but half the time, at least. And, uh, it said that the most important, the thing that the toddler is thinking when they misbehave and they, you know, they throw their food off their tray or something like that, they’re wondering if you still love them after they do something wrong.

And it, you know, it made me, made me a little bit teary thinking like, well, I don’t ever want him to wonder that, you know, I want him to know that he’s always loved. I don’t care if he throws every piece of food off of his tray that I give him for the rest of his life, you know, but anyway, that’s a sillier example, but it’s just, I think, um, letting them know that I love them for them. That’s what I hope they can look back and feel that I did.

Guy:
Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. Only a couple of days ago, I was playing with Ava on the floor and she just came up and bit my nose really hard. Yeah, I’ve been there. Yeah. It made me squeal, and I’m like, what do I do right now? Like, you know, it’s because I go through so many emotions in that moment, and it’s like, breathe guy, breathe guy, you know?

Right. But yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Um, just a couple of questions to wrap it up before we finish. One question is with the book, what are your, um, what intentions do you have it? What are, what are your hopes for it now that it’s been released?

Saje:
You know, I’m not attached to sales or, um, anything like that. I just hope that it gets into the hands of people who can benefit from it, you know, and who will read it and, uh, get something from it. And pass it along. That’s really what I hope. I mean, our dad used to always say with his work that, you know, when he, cause the people would contact him like, Oh, somebody put this on YouTube and you’re not getting your royalties.

And he would say, I don’t care. My goal is to get the message out there. You know, if people are illegally distributed, it doesn’t matter to me. Just distribute it. Just the fact that they’re listening to it makes me happy. And I, I feel the same way. I just want people to get the message. I don’t, I’m not in it for the money.

Guy:
Yeah, beautiful. Love it. Um, do you have any, um, any practices, anything that you do daily to, to kind of keep you, um, with your foot on the path? Or do you find that you’ve been embodied in it for so long that you just kind of live it?

Saje:
Oh, no, I definitely need the daily reminders. I mean, um, so I don’t, I, I wish I could say that I was more committed to my meditation practice, but, uh, I’m not always, but when I am, when I’m doing it daily. I feel, uh, far more connected. I feel like I’m able to quiet the noise and to tune into, you know, my knowing to, I can, I feel more connected to my dad too. Um, I feel more patient, things like that. So when I am disciplined in it, that is, and, um, another thing that I love to do, cause I, I know with two small kids and we live in New York, I do a lot of walking with the stroller and, um, You know, I walk my, we go to the parks and whatever, but we just walk a lot.

And so I listened to podcasts that are spiritually based. A lot of times I’ll listen to my dad, YouTube videos and stuff like that, or books on tape. Um, and it just puts it just even 10 or 15 minutes of listening to uplifting content can just, even if I’m not taking as much of it in as I’d like to, because I’m correcting this one and, you know, paying attention, it’s still, it just shifts my whole energy.

To, um, a more positive place. So those are the two things that I try and do right now.

Guy:
Yeah. Beautiful. Uh, you know, it’s funny you say that, cause I get to have these conversations pretty much once or twice a week and it’s changed my life, like having, doing that and experiencing that thing. So that putting yourself around uplifting content and people is, is pivotal. Isn’t it?

Saje:
It totally is. It makes a big difference. Um, listening to my dad, I think like, I know he was my dad, but he was, you know, a really talented speaker, and um, I think even more so than he was a writer, and when I listen to him speak, I just feel better. I just, all of a sudden, it’s like my whole perspective can shift just from hearing one story, one piece of advice, you know, one talking point, and I’m onto a different path for the day.

Guy:
Yeah, I, I, I’ll say, I’ll say this on there, like your dad’s book, Change Your Thoughts, Change Your Life. Um, I think, I can’t remember when I was listening to that, but I had an audible and I was going through a really rough point and I would listen to that on repeat many, many years ago and it was, it was huge, you know, it’s really, it really is powerful, you know, so yeah, I’m totally grateful for that as well.

Um, last question. Is there, with everything we’ve covered today on the show, is there anything you’d like to leave the listeners to ponder?

Saje:
Hmm. Um, you know, I think the theme of today’s show was just, uh, Leaning into your life and, uh, stop resisting. I mean, yeah, when I was one time in the car with my dad and the song, I hope you dance by Leanne Womack came on the radio.

Do you know that song? No, I don’t. Yeah, it wasn’t because this is us, you know, you’re in Australia, we’re in the U S but it’s a, it’s a very famous song here and it’s a, um, It’s the whole theme of the song is a lot of cliche lines. You know, I hope you never fear those mountains in the distance. I hope, uh, you, if you get the chance to sit it out or dance, I hope you dance on and on things like that.

Really positive messages throughout the song. And, um, My that came on the radio. I was with my dad and he said, uh, I want you to listen to this whole song. And I agree with every single line in this song, except for one. And I want you to see if you can figure out which, which line it is. So we listened to the song and, um, I don’t remember if I got it right or not, but he said afterwards, In there, she says, I hope you never settle for the path of least resistance.

And he said, I hate that line. I disagree with that line because I think you should always take the path of least resistance, you know, it’s like what we’ve been talking about. It’s clinging versus allowing, um, When, when the universe is offering you resistance, look at that. Look at yourself, you know, go with the flow.

Uh, Serena loves to end our, our interviews with, um, the example of our dad used to say the, the song row, row, row your boat. You know that one? It’s like a nursery rhyme for kids. Um, it’s, it, my dad used to say that’s a metaphor for life, you know, row, row, row your boat, you know, you do the rowing, it’s your life.

Um, gently down the stream, go with the flow. Uh, so it’s sort of a metaphor for how I’d like to live my life. Don’t, don’t fight up the stream. It doesn’t mean you don’t work hard or things like that. Just going with the flow of, of your life, I think makes it. Um, a happier, more fulfilling life. It provides you with opportunities to grow and to, to help others, um, to be of service, things like that.

I think if you’re, if you find yourself in a situation where you don’t feel like you can find the joy. Try and find it for somebody else or give it to somebody else, you know, and, and see if that shifts it for you because Um, I think being of service to others is often more of a service to ourselves in the, in the end.

Guy:
100%. Sage, thank you. Thank you for sharing everything. Thank you for coming on the show. Um, It’ll reach a lot of people here in Australia and I have no doubt it will inspire them and support them in some way So your time is greatly appreciated and if they want to grab a copy of the book, where can they where can they get it? I’m assuming it’s on all the bookstores Amazon.

Saje:
It’s on Amazon. Yeah, it’s in all the bookstores. Yeah, I don’t I know it’s in Australia I don’t know a lot about the that’s okay where it is in Australia, but it’s definitely online and it’s on Audible and Amazon and all amazing Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for having me. It’s been lovely.

Guy:
You’re very welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.