#146 This week, I’m here with the amazing Jonathan Hammond. Jonathan is an Author, Spiritual Teacher, Energy Healer, Shamanic Practioner, and Spiritual Counselor. In his own words, he is a healer who helps people come back to their nature.

This episode, as well as Jonathan’s work, is very relevant to our world now. A world were people are anxious, they are looking outside of themselves, and or feel disconnected from the world.

We talk about Huna and its principles and Jonathan offers some really practical things we can do or change within our lives to feel more connected and to heal from the past. Even if you think you don’t have a trauma to heal from, listening to Jonathan’s words will no doubt add something to how you approach the world, those around you, and yourself.

If you enjoyed this podcast, you may also like: Grow A New Body | Dr Alberto Villoldo

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About Jonathan: Jonathan Hammond is an Author, Spiritual Teacher, Energy Healer, Shamanic Practioner, and Spiritual Counselor. He is a graduate of Harvard University and The University of Michigan.Jonathan is a certified Master Teacher in Shamanic Reiki, Usui and Karuna Reiki. He is on the Advanced Graduate Studies Advisor for Shamanic Reiki Worldwide and an ordained Alakai (teacher/guide) in the Hawaiian Shamanic tradition through Aloha International. He teaches classes in Shamanism, Energy Healing, Reiki, Huna and Ho’oponopono at the Omega Institute for Holistic Studies, The One Spirit Learning Alliance and other major venues around the world.

Before moving into his work in holistic health, Jonathan had a successful career as an award-winning actor appearing on Broadway and Television.

Jonathan is deeply committed to empowering and healing people by bringing indigenous earth-wisdom into the modern world in practical and usable ways.

His first book about contemporary shamanism and the spiritual traditions of Hawaii called The Shaman’s Mind – Huna Wisdom to Change your Life is available where books are sold.

►Audio Version:

Key points with time stamp:

• Jonathan’s work in his own words (3:50)
• What is healing, from a shamanic perspective? (5:11)
• Are humans removed from their surrounding? (7:04)
• Do we need to experience discomfort first before achieving growth? (10:57)
• From an actor to a shamanic practitioner (12:59)
• About The Shaman’s Mind (15:55)
• Why do many fear working on the Self? (18:24)
• The connection between The Shaman’s Mind and COVID-19 (22:48)
• How to not feel anxious while looking at the world (24:22)
• Huna principle #1: “The world is what you think it is.” (25:56)
• Huna principle #2: “We are all interconnected” (32:24)
• Huna principle #3: “Energy goes where the attention goes” (32:43)
• Huna principle #4: “Now is the moment of power” (35:00)
• Huna principle #5: “The only ethic is love” (37:51)
• How to feel empowered, despite a traumatic past (41:19)
• Huna principle #7. “Effectiveness is the measure of truth” (45:07)
• A low point for Jonathan which later became a blessing (47:03)
• Jonathan’s morning routine (48:45)
• One thing about Jonathan most people don’t know (51:22)
• What Jonathan leaves us with (53:22)

Mentioned in this episode:

• The Shaman’s Mind – Huna Wisdom to Change your Life, 2020. Jonathan’s book.
• Huna
• Shamanism
• The Cree people
• The Wetiko Virus
• Serge King, Hawaiian Shaman
• Manawa, the 4^th principle of Huna
• Aloha, the 5^th principle of Huna
• Ho’oponopono
• Mana, the 6^th principle of Huna

Jonathan Hammond’s Website:
jonathanhammond.com

 

About me:

My Instagram:
www.instagram.com/guyhlawrence/?hl=en

My website:
www.guylawrence.com.au
www.liveinflow.co

 

TRANSCRIPT

Guy 00:09
Hello, rockstars This is Guy, of course, your host, thank you for tuning into my podcast. I always appreciate it if you’re dropping in right now, of course have conversations that go well beyond conventional health, wealth and wisdom to inspire change in our lives. And I just hope you’re having a fantastic week, I’m excited to be sharing this episode with you today. My awesome guest is Jonathan Hammond. And, boy, I really enjoyed this conversation. He’s a top bloke. He’s based in New York and, and there was some really great practical steps in here as well. So I think, if you have tuned in, you will get a lot out of it today. And just for the record, Jonathan is an author. He’s a spiritual teacher and energy healer, a shamanic practitioner and also a spiritual counselor. He is a graduate of Harvard University and the University of Michigan, can’t get my words out, but driven by his background and interest in energy healing, Jonathan has apprenticed with shamans in Brazil, Mexico, Bali, and Hawaii. And he runs yoga and spirituality retreats around the world. And as a founder of a private spiritual counseling and shamanic practice in New York City, known as mind body, spirit NYC. And yeah, like I said, he’s got he’s got a book out recently, as well. And I got to talk about a lot of things around shamanism and his book and hence the books called the shamans mind, which I just love the title of the way. And we also dive into seven principles of the Huna. And well, if you’re not what Huna is, I wasn’t familiar with either, we will get into all of that today. But essentially, they are universal shamanic ideas of ways of seeing the world and our relationships to the world, that provide us with a framework for entering into the shamans mind. And I think obviously, 2020 has been a quite a crazy year. And these kind of principles, just beautiful love fit right in with this. So I’m very excited to bring this show to you today with Jonathan, what else is going on in my world? for lots, I think we’ve, like you might have heard or mentioned, if you want to come to our retreat in January that has sold out, we are looking to make more dates confirmed for 2021. During the year, we’re getting a lot of momentum, which is super exciting. And I just want to bring this work to more and more and more people, because it’s really having a major impact. So if you want to get amongst it at any level, we’re even offering a three meditation series that’s free. And it’s all wrapped up in around the seven day challenge to get you started. That’s all my live in flow co website. So if you want to try that out for week comes with an app as well. super simple, super simple. If not the first time I’ve said that, just just come back, there’ll be links below this. So if you literally pause it wherever you are now or the watching this video on YouTube, or watching it or listening to it, one of the podcast channels literally pause come down. You can even subscribe to the newsletter, or drop us an email. But I encourage you to take the steps Come and join us at some stage next year. We’ve got a lot in the pipeline lots planned. I’m super excited. We Yeah, moving and shaking. So hopefully I will get to meet you in person one day soon. And then of course, if you’re enjoying this episode, please share it with a loved one or friend. Even just screenshot it if you use Instagram and tag me. I really appreciate it. And it just helps to continue to get this message out there. But some awesome guests coming up soon to see of the year. And looking forward to sharing it all with you. And yeah, much love for me enjoy this episode with Jonathan. It’s fantastic. Jonathan, welcome to the podcast.

Jonathan 03:47
Aloha. It’s really good to be here. Thank you.

Guy 03:50
I love asking everyone on the show this very simple question. If you were an intimate dinner party with a bunch of strangers right now, and you sat next to someone and they asked you what you did for a living, what would you say?

Jonathan 04:06
I would say I’m a healer. That’s what I would say. And then they would probably move to the other end of the but yeah, that’s what I do. That’s what I do for a living. I’m a professional healer,

Guy 04:21
yeah, professional healer. And if they didn’t move to the other end of the table, I wanted to know more. What would generally be the typical response

Jonathan 04:31
that I work with people to come back to their nature, their true nature through a through a shamanic paradigm. And I do that there’s a lot of different ways in which I do that. I do that through energy healing. I do that through through speaking to them like I do that through laying my hands on them all kinds of different ways in which I in which I do that but but more than anything else. It’s about the return to something more natural in everyone. And that that that’s what everyone needs healing about and and that’s what I do.

Guy 05:11
Yeah amazing. I was gonna say what what and I know we’re gonna dive into exactly what you’re doing everything and it’s I’m always fascinated by this. But in from a shamanic perspective, what is healing? How? What does that word mean to to you?

Jonathan 05:29
Well, in sha-, you know, what is shamanism about shamanism is the reverence of nature, the the worshipping of nature. And the reason why we would worship or revere anything is because we were inspired by it. And because we want to emulate it. And if you look at nature, nature is a vast cooperative effort. Everything fits together, everything is interconnected and interdependent on everything else. And the energy of nature is always moving, always moving towards growth and creation. And we as beings of nature, if we allow ourselves to enter into this paradigm, we are also interconnected and interdependent with everything. And we also have that that, that force inside us that wants us to grow and create further, and everything around us helps us do that if we again, enter into that paradigm. And so and so. So that’s really what it’s about more than anything else is that we’re really no different than then than the forest. And that and because the forest shows us who we are, through the, through the fact that it all works together. And it’s always moving towards growth and creation. And if you think about what would always be moving towards growth and creation, what would be that underlying intention, ality love, anything that wants to experience more of itself? For the sake of experiencing more of itself, the only possible conclusion we can come to have what’s underneath nature is love.

Guy 07:04
Yeah, beautiful. Absolutely. And when you look at all the indigenous cultures all around the world, and the wisdom they bring, and we have, as a Western society become so disconnected from that, and sort of moved. I know my life looks very different these days than I was talking off air with you earlier. But I didn’t have that rhythmic movement in my life on a daily and weekly basis that kind of move with flow and move with nature movement creation, as opposed to I was just so far removed from it, do you find that one of the biggest problems you think that’s going on right now,

Jonathan 07:43
that is the biggest problem what’s going on it because we are, you know, the the time of separation is now over? It just is. And because we can’t, we cannot keep keep continuing with the idea that it’s, we’re not all part of one great happening, it’s one organism, and we are all all, each individual apertures that see that it’s that that one organism sees itself, or you could think of it as we are individual waves in the ocean that can’t separate ourselves from the ocean. Right? And so we are we are not, we are not separate and and the reality reality has literally become sick, because we have projected onto reality and and the hoonah philosophy that I that I wrote that my book is about is is about this, this philosophy that comes out of Polynesia, but and the idea behind it is that we create reality with our thoughts. Well, you’ve heard that a million times what that really means is that reality itself creates itself based on what we project on it. So if you think of reality as like a blank canvas onto which we project our internal world, and because so many people’s internal worlds and the projection onto that reality is one of separation, fear, hatred, greed, profits over people dominion over nature, that reality has shifted and become ill. And and, and but we’re in the middle of a worldwide illness. And and and that’s really why and so and so now because so many people are using not only using this time to wake up but but the indigenous many indigenous cultures talked about have prophecies around this time on the planet. That would be this very dark time, this very difficult time, this time when, when humanity had sort of lost its way. But at the same time, all the prophecies the rainbow prophecy of the Hopi, the eagle, Condor, prophecy of them, catchable people, the Mayan prophecy, all talk about this time that that that while it would be difficult, all of these beings would be incarnated at this time. And there would be a sense that they in their in their spiritual DNA that they would be called to in some way usher in this new reality. And anyone anyone involved in consciousness work, certainly anyone listening to this podcast, we’re all part of that there are so many of us. And and it’s so important that we do our work to make ourselves well enough so that we can contribute our individual projection onto that reality. So that that reality shifts in the direction that it’s supposed to shift into. And that’s, that’s the massive waking up. That’s that’s the reason even why, you know, the esoteric wisdom, my book on on the Huna philosophy from Polynesia, meditation, mindfulness, yoga, all of that stuff, that’s, that’s only been available in the way that it is to be to be consumed about 40 years. And the spiritual intelligence is no what they were doing. And and the reason why we’ve found ourselves with all this esoteric wisdom is available to us is for the people who are going to usher in this new way.

Guy 10:57
Yeah. Yeah. You know, read here in your talk, then, do you think it’s human nature that we have to or even universal law that we almost have to break down or have discomfort first to, to really drive us forward to create growth require,

Jonathan 11:17
as a professional healer, I could tell you that, that resistance and healing go hand in hand, they are, they are, they’re the two sides of the same coin, there isn’t one without the other. And, and that and, you know, we’re hardwired in some ways to resist change, even positive change, you know, we, the, the psyche has a default network in the brain that that is constantly worrying about the past and are bemoaning the past and worrying about the future, in order to keep a continuity of self. And when you adjust and you want to change that sense of self, that the system goes the you know, so so resistance is just absolutely, it’s absolutely a part of it. And and, and that’s what we’re seeing now. That’s what we’re seeing now, there there are the people who are really digging their their feet in and saying saying I am I am not going over there, I am not listening, I am not empathizing, I want people around me that look like me. And that, that I understand. And I want my world small, and you know, and they’re really resistant to the idea of a global village. And, and, and the good news is that that Earth wisdom, which is, you know, because the earth is said the earth is showing us that we cannot continue as is the earth is going to win. And anyone who’s flowing, anyone who’s flowing with, you know, with with Earth wisdom, which is just that I want to keep going and the earth is telling me that the only way in which we can all keep going is if we all in some way cooperate and work together as is emulated in nature. And so if we’re on the earth side, you know, you know, that’s the Fed, that’s gonna win. That’s the side that’s gonna win.

Guy 12:59
Totally. I love it. I love the way you share this. Jonathan, I, I gotta ask you as well look, how do we then wake up to that fact? Because I know I lived an unconscious a large part of my life unconsciously. I just didn’t know any different. Like, that’s all I knew. That was my, my No. And I was gonna say, if that was for yourself, too. Let’s go into your journey first. And how did you then come from an unconscious place? Because I am not mistaken. You were on Broadway. And you were doing television? Yeah, you had that? And now you’re Sharman.

Jonathan 13:35
Yeah, well, I’ve shamanic practitioner.

Guy 13:38
practitioner. Okay.

Jonathan 13:39
Yeah. Yeah. But well, you know, I you know, when you think of I was an actor, I did my first play when I was four years old. And when you think about what acting is, what is it really, it’s you learn the lines, you learn the blocking, and you hope that inspiration comes through, you know, and, and I was never a famed driven actor, that was never the thing. It was always about telling stories that lifted people up that in some way open things open consciousness up. And, and I was always craving that, that, that artistic high of I’m of the inspiration coming through. And, and what I found was that, that I just couldn’t, I didn’t have the reach that I needed to have, I just wasn’t able to. I also have you know, because it shows this is so difficult. I I I began to look into and develop a spiritual life, which I thought was just to sort of help me traverse the difficulties of showbusiness but that but the spiritual life kept taking up more and more and more space and I became more and more and more interested in it and and what I found that the the shift which actually happened where I actually decided I’m going to stop doing this and I’m going to be a full time teacher and and healer actually happened on the volcano in Maui I had a visitation and this is after many years of Working with shamans on three different continents and and lots of shamanic study and all that. But I just had a I had a visitation that was, that was hard to explain. And I knew it was in within a half hour, I just said, I have to completely I have to completely change my life. I’m called in a different direction. And it was it was an identity crisis. And all my friends thought I was nuts because I was doing well is it you know, as an actor, and but I just, I just needed to make that change for me. And now I there’s a perfection and all of it, I can see that skill set is so is so helpful it and even now in this work, you know, I mean, I wrote, I wrote my first book, and it just kind of came out. And it’s just because I understand narrative, you know, I understand humor, I understand how to how a group dynamics and all of those things led me to led me to become a spiritual teacher.

Guy 15:55
Yeah, beautiful. So we have with so I’m fascinated as well, because I noticed that you had worked with people from Brazil, Mexico, Bali, and Hawaii, which I believe your your latest book the shamans mind is based upon the principles from Hawaii.

Jonathan 16:13
Yeah, let’s go correct? That’s correct. Well, what I found was what I found in working with shamans in all these different places was that they, even though they’re local, they’re their localities are different, their practices are slightly different. They all see the world in just about exactly the same way. Right. And, and what um, and, and that, that opened me to something. And then when I discovered the Huna wisdom, there was, it was the first time that I was introduced to a philosophical construct that helped me see how all these shamans are thinking similarly, which is the reason why I call it the shamans mind because even though it’s even though, that this philosophy is out of Polynesia, it is a philosophy and it’s very simple stuff. And it’s a lot of stuff that you know, I just never seen it so elegantly put in one place. And if you if you follow that philosophy, it and and integrate it and use it in your life, you enter into the the way in which the shaman see the world, all shamans, it’s that universal, it happens to come out of Hawaii and my aesthetic is Hawaii. I love it. I love Hawaii, Hawaii is my place. But But, but what I found was a universal demonic paradigm through this philosophy. And, and it’s very, you know, shamans are tricky because they don’t have most of them. They don’t even know why they do what they do. They don’t know how they do it, you know, they don’t, you know, they just do it, you know, it’s very hard for them, to communicate to, to a Westerner, you know, exactly what it is that they’re doing, you know, because in some way, it’s, it’s so in there, it’s so big in their culture, it’s so you know, it’s an entirely different way of seeing the world. It’s seeing the world with the point of view or point of view of, well, if I have an answer to a question, I just go to the tree. And it’ll tell me, you know, now we have to do all kinds of undoing to even get to that, you know, but essentially that that was the that’s what I what I discovered about all shamans and are just so many shamans listening to I came in contact with and this this helps you see through that lens.

Guy 18:24
Got it. Got it. Yeah, beautiful. Did why why do we and I’m, again speaking from my experience, but then seeing other people as well. Why do we fea this work a lot, because quite often, we almost need to be pushed to an edge of a cliff. Like, like society is right now but even to dive into the self and start to do this work.

Jonathan 18:45
Well, as simplistic as this is simplistic as his answer is it’s actually the answer. We’re terrified to feel our feelings. And and what I mean by that is that you know, we are all being made and it’s culturally indoctrinated, that we are to assimilate, we are to fit in with everyone else. We are to keep up with the Joneses. We are told on television, what we’re supposed to look like, what our money is, what people are, sorry, my dog, what what people are looking at are what what, what what women are, you know, we’re taught to assimilate and and to actually feel what’s true and real for you, is to pull yourself away from that expectation to assimilate and follow your own inner directives, connect with your own nature. And people are people are terrified to do that. Because it’s a singular path. It’s a singular path that comes out of you. And we’re taught not to be that empowered, you know, you know, the last 2000 years has been have been a mono… think of it like monotheism, that the idea of an off planet God that judges us that has authority over us and whether or not you adhere to that paradigm or not on some level, the authority is outside of us. That’s what we learned that’s in the collective unconscious. And so this work is about that the authority is not outside of you, it can only be accessed through you. And that’s a big responsibility. You know, I talked, I talked about in the book over and over again, about taking 100% responsibility, because you are creating your life through if you choose to, you are creating your life through you. And our feelings may say, I’m in the wrong relationship, I’m in the wrong job. I’m not, I actually don’t like this person, I don’t want to do this, I don’t want to show up, I have to put up a boundary, I have to not speak to this family member. But we’re so afraid to actually be there and be in our own truth. You know, and, and so that’s the biggest thing, if I, if I had to say, if I had to summarize what I do in my practice, I get you in your body, and I get you feeling your feelings. And as easy as that sounds. That’s an entirely different paradigm, than what we’re used to.

Guy 21:01
I truly hear you, I really do. And is a beautiful say, and I heard recently as well, you got to feel it to heal it. And it’s,

Jonathan 21:11
it is only in it is only in the acknowledgement of a problem that we gain access to the freedom to change it, that it’s it’s just, it’s this strange truth. But it is a truth. And, and that’s why when we when we are not attending to ourselves, we are letting these things and they’re you in the wounds, and they just keep they just keep perpetuating themselves and getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. And and it’s so important that we start parenting ourselves that we start addressing, I’m actually scared, I’m actually I’ve actually angry, I’m actually jealous. All those things are, you know, if you think about if you think about nature, nature is in template, there are plenty of things in nature, we don’t like we don’t like tarantulas, we don’t like cockroaches, we don’t like great white sharks, but we would never think they’re not supposed to exist. But that’s what we do to us. These things in us that are considered dark that we say, Oh, I don’t want that to be there. Well, it’s there. And it’s there. And even something as unattractive as jealousy. Jealousy is directed it says I want what that guy has. If you align with your jealousy, we’re now in love. Yeah, and, and so that’s what that’s what so that’s what this work is about. And that that’s what, that’s what shamanism is about is accessing your nature within, even if it’s an inconvenience to your neighbor. Because that’s where you that’s where you find your path, we’re wired to find our path through our bodies.

Guy 22:48
Yeah, it’s almost like coming back and finding a true self and our own personal power and coming from that place. And, and one of one of the biggest things I used to struggle with in my life was actually saying no, you know, and not not having those boundaries. And and, and then of course, that would create a series of emotions and feelings and, and really have my external world reflecting straight back at me, but I couldn’t see it. You know, when you when you wrote this book, the shamans mind, I’m curious, did it come out during COVID? Before COVID, it came out July,

Jonathan 23:25
but it was written it what’s crazy about it is I the whole introduction is about the wetiko virus and the wetiko wetiko is a word that that comes from the Cree people from North America. And wetiko is like it’s like a psycho spiritual demon like that, that that is born of our disconnection from nature. And it causes us to cannibalize ourselves and cause us to, to, you know, all those things, people over profits and hatred, and all of those things. And, and it was the whole first introduction was about that and, and a year and a half later, when the book came out, you know, I talked about this difficult time on the planet and little little did I know that it was going to be that difficult. So yeah, it felt very channeled. And it felt like I was I was, I was connecting to something that was that was in the process of happening, but I didn’t even have a context for it.

Guy 24:22
Yeah, got ya got you. Yes, I was gonna say I have no doubt that your book is more than relevant than ever right now, for anyone that’s in a in a point where there might be struggling and constantly looking externally.

Jonathan 24:34
And you’re the book the book is about individual healing more than anything else, but under the paradigm that we are that the second Huna principle says there are no limits, which means there is no there is no that separation is merely an illusion. So what that means is that what we heal in ourselves we heal in the collective. And so even though the book is about personal healing, it is about personal healing as an act of sacred activism. My Hawaiian teacher, Serge king, he says, if you want to heal someone, think of them and you feel good. Because according to this paradigm, according this paradigm, what we heal in ourselves, we heal in the other.

Guy 25:15
And that then, of course, allows us to feel like we are actually making a difference, because sometimes it can seem so overwhelming, you look externally look what’s going on in the world, and we just want to, like hide away, but if we actually, like you say, take the action to start healing ourselves in inadvertently, that

Jonathan 25:34
it’s just if everyone did their part, just have to do your part, you know, and and even if you think, you know, this is a very low bar, but if you think, why not aspire to cleaning up your own mess to such an extent that it doesn’t spill over to into another’s experience? Can we just do that?

Guy 25:56
I can’t imagine the world then. My God. So you mentioned that with Principle number two. Now? I do I do believe there are seven Huna principles. Is that correct? Can you dive into them a little bit?

Jonathan 26:07
Yeah. Yeah. So the first principle and and and stop me if you have any questions. So the first principle and these and these principles are based on Hawaiian words that are and these principles are unique translations, that that, that come from Serge kahili King, who is my, my teacher in Hawaii. So the first principle says the world is what you think it is, the world is what you think it is. So that means not only that your experience of the world will be based on how you think about it, but that the world itself, that reality itself creates itself based on how you think about it. So that means that we are in a co creative relationship with what we think in the creation of our world. So So, you know, and this puts, you know, when you talk about the shamans, as magical beings, you know, they are simply aware of the fact that they are creating reality with their thoughts, you know, if you, if you, and we’re swimming in all different kinds of realities, if you, you know, if you go to a, you know, if you go to a Trump rally, that’s the reality, that’s a real reality, you know, and everyone is, is co creating that dream, they are creating that reality. And that reality is real, which means that and if they have the power to do that, then we have the power to create whatever sumptuous reality our imagination can conceive. The reason why I’m so aligned with Hawaii is because to go there is to engage your imagination, because you just can’t fathom what you’re seeing and what you’re experiencing, you know, and, and so, and that speaks to something aspirational and inspirational about what is the quality of what’s going on between your ears. Because whatever is going on there is creating your world. And if you just look at the things in your life that aren’t working, and know that you have a degree of complicity unconscious or not, that you have a degree of complicity with what’s going on in your life that isn’t working. Aha, you have the power to change it, because you created it with your thoughts and beliefs. Not some of the time, all of the time. It doesn’t mean that we blame the victim because a lot of times we don’t know what we’re thinking and believing because they’re so it’s so lodged in there is a habitual way of being that we that we aren’t necessarily even aware of it. But if you take responsibility for the causative involvement that you have in the creation of your life, based on how you think about it, and what you think about yourself, what you think about the world, what you think about the nature of love, what your beliefs are, what what your limitations are, that creates the world. And that’s what that first principle is saying. Yeah,

Guy 28:50
wow. That alone is massive. alone. Let’s forget the other principles for a second.

Jonathan 28:55
It’s just, it’s crazy. I mean, it’s really it’s really deep. Yeah. Yes. And, and we’re just taught not to not to be that powerful. We’re just taught not, that we don’t have we don’t have that kind of power. And and we really do, we really do. And, and so a mere thought even is the beginning of an alchemical magical process of manifestation. And the more focus you give it, the more that process happens.

Guy 29:25
Yeah, I you know, Jonathan, I remember about 10 years ago, when I was going through a lot of shifts, I actually created a document and I read it my energy and everything, everything in my personal life, my relationships, my external lives, everything and I started seeing what was like, influencing the way I think, feel and behave on a daily basis. And I was scoring myself, and I was like, how can I start to change these over a long term period and start to think about where I live, who I hang out with what I’m doing and and every input to create my reality. That was of more love, joy and peace and fulfillment on a daily basis. And it took time because I was changing my external circumstances worn. But over time, I now live that person that, from that by exactly coming from that principle, you know,

Jonathan 30:21
it’s right, if you just think that that and you know, there’s a spiritual aspect to this too because the spiritual intelligence is they just want to love us. But that’s why they’re around. That’s why they hover around, they just want to love us, they’d love to bring us our heart’s desire. But if you’ve cordoned off your reality, based on limiting beliefs, that’s what they have to work with. So, you know, I often give the example of, you know, if you’re a woman who’s, you know, and you learned a very long time ago that women over 35 will end up alone, and you’re a woman over 35, in a year alone. And you believe that because mom taught you that, and you missed the deadline, you know, as much as spirit would love to sit the guy next to you on the subway, your beliefs that make it so spirit goes, I just have to wait to see change the belief. Otherwise, I could stick it stick it right there, it doesn’t make any difference. That’s where the way in which we the way in which we limit ourselves with what we’re thinking and believing. indicate to spirit what we are willing to receive.

Guy 31:23
Totally. But you know, the thing is, if I hadn’t had met that resistance, if I hadn’t met that limiting belief, I wouldn’t have got the lesson.

Jonathan 31:33
Of course, of course. Yeah, of course. That’s right. And it’s all just the whole process is just about unencumbered. That’s the healing process. I wouldn’t say that, that’s the soul’s journey, that’s our purpose on that’s our purpose on earth is to is to unencumber to to remove that which obscures our perfection. That’s what we’re doing. Yeah, you know, and, and the more that we, we remove all those blemishes against what is just a perfect canvas of divinity, you came out that way. And then you start constricting because of the world and you and your family and society and money and all those things. And, and the healing is just to remove that. And then you’re just being of nature that always flows towards growth, and creation is wired to flow towards growth and creation connected to everything to help you do that.

Guy 32:24
Yeah, amazing. Amazing. Yeah. So we touched on principle two.

Jonathan 32:28
Yeah. So principle two, we we talked about, yeah. There are no limits to it. There’s only one thing happening, where we’re all interconnected. That’s that principle. Yeah. And again, what you’re healing what you’re healing yourself, you heal the needle. Yeah, exactly.

Guy 32:43
There’s huge. Principle three,

Jonathan 32:46
yeah, energy flows where attention goes. So this means that where we place our focus and attention, with consistency, elicit an energetic response from a symbiotic universe that wants to work with us, that wants to send us creative energy, based on where we’re placing our focus and attention. So that means you have to pay attention to what you’re paying attention to. Because what you’re paying attention to is eliciting creative energies from the universe that are bringing those things into being. So what we focus on with consistency elicit the energy that bring to us the nearest physical equivalent of whatever we’re focusing on with consistency.

Guy 33:29
Yeah, beautiful, you know, and it goes back to the example there’s never the lady with a 35 fo… continually focusing on why am I alone, right?

Jonathan 33:37
That’s right. And, and the minute that you start focusing on he’s coming, he’s coming, that guy is coming, romance is coming. You are You are doing alchemical work, you are doing energy work, because you are you are focusing on something that you want to happen. You know, it you know, it was my dream to move to Hawaii, and I spent a year and a half reading a book on Hawaii. Anything I watched on television was about Hawaii, I’ve seen every episode of Hawaii life, not all 19 season three times. And and I was doing energy work, you know, I don’t know how I’m gonna get to Hawaii. Uh, you know, it’s expensive. But you know, but by giving it that by giving it that continued focus over and over and over again, when the opportunity of Hawaii came to move there. Because I’ve given it too much focus. Yeah, the doubt was there. But but the overriding energy was so overrode the doubt, because of where I’ve been placing my focus and attention. Yeah,

Guy 34:37
it’s like, I’m, like having a really positive obsession, isn’t it?

Jonathan 34:42
Yeah, no, that’s exactly what it’s kind of if you just think like, like, what would it be like to be a cheerleader for me for the rest of my life? And knowing that when I do that, that the spiritual intelligence of the universe, support that endeavor?

Guy 34:56
Yeah. Love it. You know, Love it. Love it.

Jonathan 35:00
Next principle. Yeah, yeah. Manawa is that is the Hawaiian word it means now is the moment of power. So we know a lot about the power of now and mindfulness and all that. But what this principle is getting at from a semantic point of view because in a mystic would want to abide in the now a shaman wants to do something with it. That’s, that’s sort of the fundamental difference. And, and the idea about beihai Now is the moment of power is now is the only place where we can access power, because now is the only place where we can do anything. So that means that we can, in the present moment, recalibrate the future, reframe the past, we calibrate our identity, we can make the now be whatever we want it to be. And we can only access power right now, you know, in the Hawaiian language, they don’t have past past tenses and future tenses in their language. So a sentence like I went to the store yesterday to buy milk in Hawaiian is my having gone to the store yesterday to buy milk is now over. Everything relates to the present moment. So they’re there, their language itself doesn’t allow you have access to anything but the present moment or a sentence like I’m going, I’m going snorkeling next week becomes my having gone snorkeling next week hasn’t happened yet. Everything relates back to the now. And that means and and if you think about it, you can start over in any given moment. That’s what this principle is getting at. You can start over in any given moment, you’re even if even if you’ve been mired in a bad habit used to in the moment, you start the habit of a new habit, you can only do that right now.

Guy 36:47
Of course, we get so conditioned on me on this linear timeframe, Monday to Friday, alarm clocks were time set, and everything is projecting, projecting, projecting, and we just go unconsciously through so much.

Jonathan 36:59
And you know, and even you know, when you do want something, and the doubt comes up, which it will Yeah, we all have wounds, you know, the doubt the future, whatever, you can only attend to it now. And you have to and so that means, you know, when I talk about living a spiritual life, what am I saying? Being creatively engaged with what’s happening? That’s what that means creatively engagement with what’s happening. And if what’s happening, is this doubtful thought form, I’m going to attend to it. Because Because I know that the world is what I think it is. And so I’m going to attend to it because because I don’t want that that thought form is going to muddy up the energy. You know, mix thinking gets mixed results according to this philosophy. Course, you know, so we have to so we address it, you can only do that right now.

Guy 37:49
Yeah, beautiful.

Jonathan 37:51
Yeah. Fifth principle is Aloha, which you know, which you know, from Hawaii, and all that really all, you know, we think of in Huna, I wouldn’t go as far as to say in shamanism, the only ethic is love. That’s the one what we’re looking, what we’re looking for is that loves perspective, is a part of every move we make. That’s what this principle is getting at is love present. And that could that doesn’t mean that we’re just airy fairy nice people all the time. Because Because sometimes the most loving thing to do is to put up a boundary is to is to leave is to is to be brutally confrontational And so if we want to flow with the earth, which is a really good idea, if love’s perspective is present in your actions, your deeds, who you invite into your life, you’re, you’re in that flow. Yeah, so that’s what that principle is getting out. The sixth principle mana means the translation is, all power comes from within, all power comes from within. So that means we are each part of an infinitely powerful universe. And that powerful infinitude converges at the point that I call me. So I have all the power and you have all the power. And this is, this is a really big one, because this is this is this is the one that reminds us that that your journey through life can only come through you and that and even and that nothing has authority over you, unless the authority in you gives your authority away to it. And so and so it’s saying that we always have the authority and if you look at the word authority, there’s that word author to author our lives. That’s what we can do it when we when we claim our own authority. So, so I have all the power and you have all the power, my Hawaiian teacher, he says, I don’t ever get disappointed in anyone, because people are always going to do what they’re going to do. And what he’s getting at is that is that, that nothing that you, you, I have the power to let they let you be exactly as you are. And if you’re empowered, you have the power to let me be exactly as I am. And if you think about the nature of power, power over something, is just going to lead to retaliation and fear. That’s the that’s the result, power against something just going to lead to resistance. But the power real power is only when we empower, because when we empower, we have the power to give away. Yeah, you know, so so if you’re thinking it’s so that’s so much, you know, and we, we, we pull away from that which which we don’t have we, you know, we get jealous, we, you know, we we separate ourselves from from those things, you know, rather than blessing them. Because when we bless what we want, even if we don’t have it, we’re in the the energy of receiving it. You know, of being in that energy?

Guy 41:18
Absolutely. It comes back, there’s a couple of things I wanted to speak to about that. Because when it comes back to it about taking hundred percent responsibility in the now, isn’t it to create that empowerment. But what would you speak to about maybe, if you’ve had a traumatic past or some kind? And then of course, you’re now in the present that something might have happened even beyond when you could say yes or no, as a child, or, you know, there’s so many ways, but then we keep giving our power back to those moments and not back in power in ourselves.

Jonathan 41:52
Yeah, well, you might, the Huna philosophy is not just about the seven principles, there, there’s a practice in in the book that comes out of Hawaii called Ho’oponopono. And Ho’oponoponois about addressing that wounding that we received. And, you know, because because children children, there, they take everything personally. And if they’re mistreated, neglected, indifference, misunderstood, they will make that about something about themselves, just what kids do. And that gets what they’re called formative years for a reason, right. And that gets lodged in there as a sense of self and unaddressed. It’s, that’s what’s in the computer. That’s what that is just you know, and so, so if you were taught, that’s just an example, if you were taught, I’m going to be punished, if I speak up. Every time you want to speak up, you’ll you’ll be nervous, you’ll you’ll, you’ll be embarrassed, you’ll be shameful. And it’s only in the addressing of that, because that’s just a mistake, it’s a mistaken identity, that’s how I was able to speak up, you know, and, and so it’s just a case of mistaken identity. And that’s what you do is that you in the hole upon opponent, process, and it’s kind of a way of being, you’re extending love to that child. And you’re now because the wound was born of unloved, so you give the love now to the child and the child starts to let it go. You know, so yes, all of these principles, all these principles, they’re based on, they, they work best, when we have worked on our wounding that don’t allow us the power to sit in these principles. You know, and, and, and the whole point is, is, is the principles I ask you to look at those things inside you, that don’t allow you to create the world that you want. It’s not because you’re an idiot, because anyone’s an idiot, it’s because we were taught things that are antithetical to our best interest. That lie lodged in the unconscious mind. And as soon as we make them conscious, you know, but by by actually saying, I’m actually gonna address the fact that that I, I’m ashamed to speak up doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen like that. But that is a wound and I’m going to address it and then we’re in business. Yeah.

Guy 44:10
Yeah, no, thank you. Because it from what I’m seeing on picture is almost like on one hand, we’re actually working on the healing the trauma, whatever is on the back. And then on the other hand, we’re starting to apply the principles into our life slowly but surely, and work to move forward with

Jonathan 44:27
that and you know, that’s why I say the the negative narrative, it’s going to be there. You anytime you inspire or aspire to anything, there’s going to be a voice inside that says, Who do you think you are? Or that’s not for you or something? Or you’re You don’t look right or you’re not smart enough, or you don’t have enough money or whatever. And like you know, like and and with this foot what this what this philosophy is getting at what Ho’oponopono really is about is about, I see you there. You’re just a little boy, and I know why you feel that way. And I love You, but we’re going this way anyway. And if you come along with me, you’re gonna like it better. You know? Yeah,

Guy 45:07
I know. One more principle.

Jonathan 45:09
Yeah, the last principle. effectiveness is the measure of truth. So, truth is, the only absolute truth is that everything is everything else is just something that someone made up. And so the only truth is the truth that actually works for you. Which means that truth is highly individual. And now we’re back in our bodies in our power in our because it because it’s only from you that you can, it’s only what’s working for you that you decide what is your reality and your truth. You know, and so, and this principle is also saying that, that be flexible and be creative, because there’s a million ways to do everything. You know, there are a whole, but you know, and if one thing doesn’t work, go back and go back and go through the principles again, if what you’re getting isn’t coming to fruition, you know, if whatever truth is that you’re aligning with isn’t being effective. What are you thinking? Are you are you sensing the fact that you’re connected to everything? I’m going through the principles right now? What are you focusing on? Because that’s, that’s inviting in energy? Is love present? Are you in the present moment? Are you empowered? And then see where you are? Again? Love? Yeah.

Guy 46:36
Yeah. So but it’s so empowering, especially when you have something then you have a blueprint you can turn to and practice? You know? Yeah, beautiful. Yeah. And I’m taking the all of this is in the book, right? For people who want to dig deeper…

Jonathan 46:50
in print and individual practices, it’s not just a book that you read about that. That’s just philosophical. There are there are practices and exercises with each principle, so you can really integrate it into your life and, and understand it.

Guy 47:03
Amazing. Amazing. Thank you, Jonathan. I look, I got questions. I ask everyone on the show. And I’m feeling I need to ask you this. One is, what’s been a low point in your life that’s later become a blessing.

Jonathan 47:21
I was cast in my first Broadway show. And I and it and I entered it and was involved with the show for about a year. And it was the dream come true. And the most difficult, angriest sadest time of my entire life. And I won’t go into why but it just went but it but it was just what struck me was that this thing that I thought I wanted was not for me. And and it was it was very hard. It was very hard to and sobering to, to really look at that. But it It opens something up and it now now i would i would say it speaks to the nature of spiritual paradox. In a Spirit speaks in paradox, what seems big is small, what seem in seems important isn’t what seems strong is weak, and every iteration of opposites that you can imagine. That’s how spirit attend, tends to work and communicate. And so there was just a sense of, I did all the right things. I went to all the right parties. I’m here and I don’t feel that thing that I felt I was supposed to feel. And and thank God thank God.

Guy 48:45
Yeah, yeah, no, thank you for sharing. Um, what is your morning routine look like?

Jonathan 48:53
my morning routine? I’m probably too much scrolling to be honest. You know. You know, I mean, I mean, I really am. I’m seeing clients almost every day, you know, I really have a very, very full practice. I even you know, I, I’m working with a waitlist, even, you know, so, wow. So, you know, more than anything else, I’m, I’m really, you know, when I, when I show up, I’m really 100% I really, you know, I’m really 100% So, more than anything else, it’s about being a normal person. And it’s about taking care of whatever taking care of myself looks like, you know, whether or not that’s that’s some sort of relaxation, whether or not it’s just turning off my mind. You know, I you know, I’m because I’m, the nature of my work is spiritual. I’m just, I’m in the energies all the time. And, and I’m in the energies all the time, probably because I need so much healing. To be honest. You know, I think it’s a win win, you know, but because that’s so much a part of just so much part of my life more than anything else. It’s just about Just relaxing and take whatever relaxing and taking care of myself looks like one of the things that’s really, that’s really come up in the last, you know, as, as my practice has gotten so big and the book and all that, that I just can’t, I can’t sustain the reach that I want in the city. That’s why I need to make that move. I, you know, I need to really, I need to be fed by nature. And, and so the move is much about me continuing to do this healthfully. As it is anything else,

Guy 50:32
I hear you, I hear you I work with two other practitioners, one one therapist, she’s been doing it for 20 years, another guy’s, Matt, who I work with as well. He’s been working with sound and individual clients for 17 years, and it takes its toll, it really does take its toll, you know,

Jonathan 50:49
yeah, yeah. And you just, you just have to, you just, I just have to really watch it, I just have to really watch it. And, you know, I really, you know, I even I take care of myself enough to where I where I’ll even if I get a sense that the client is going to be something that that is going to, you know, feed both of us, you know, like, I’ll say, this isn’t probably the right fit, or, you know, I do what I need to do to take care of myself, because it really is, you know, when you’re doing this work full time, it’s, it can be a lot. Yeah,

Guy 51:22
yeah. Beautiful. No, yeah, fair enough. Okay, what’s one thing about yourself, most people wouldn’t know.

Jonathan 51:33
Um, one thing about myself that most people wouldn’t know, oh, my God, I tell everyone, everything. I really do. I really do. Because, you know, just use myself as the example because I’m, you know, I, you know, I often tell my clients, you know, I’m a step ahead, but I’m just a step ahead. You know, like, you know, just to really normalize things, because I am not. So, what is something that, that what is something that that someone doesn’t know? Gosh, what comes to mind? I guess, I guess that that although my clients would know this, but I guess that like, like, I there isn’t, there isn’t a big backstage with me, you know, it’s it’s like, it’s kind of like, it’s kind of like, you know, it’s nothing feels worse than telling someone to do something you don’t do? Nothing, you know, and so, you know, so I think that more than anything else, that I’m really, here’s what it is, I am in a constant process to stay in integrity. You know, and, and that means and so, and anyone who looks at it looks at me and goes, Oh, he’s a spiritual guy who writes books and all that, like, like that, you know, it’s like, that is that is that is not something you don’t coast, that it’s something you maintain, however, you maintain it. Yeah. So that more than that, more than anything else, I struggle, I’m, I get nervous, I’d get fearful I you know, I have all of those things, and, and they require it all those things require attention.

Guy 53:22
Yeah. Yeah. You know, beautiful, beautiful. Last question. Everything we’ve covered today. Yeah. Is there anything you’d like to leave the listeners to ponder on?

Jonathan 53:37
If there is even a spark of something inside you that says, there’s this crazy thing that I’d like to let I’d like to do or experience or or become, and I don’t know how it would pay for it. And I don’t know whether anyone will? I don’t know what how people would would think and I don’t know what my family would think. But then it’s hidden. It’s, that’s the seat of your life. That’s, that’s the seat of your soul. And so pay attention, pay attention to those things. And, and they may look crazy to loved ones, they may look crazy to you. But if there’s something that in that, that are all those things but inexplicably excites you anyway. That’s your soul. That’s the higher self trying to speak to you.

Guy 54:33
Perfect, perfect. If anyone wants to find out more, Jonathan about your work your book, where can we send them?

Jonathan 54:40
So the book the shamans mind, Huna wisdom to change your life that’s available on Amazon wherever we’re at. And you know, wherever books are sold. You can reach me very easy at mine. Sorry, I have a new new domain. Just Jonathan hammond.com jo na, tha n hmm omd.com and I certainly see I’ve had a lot of people. I’ve done a lot of these podcasts since the book came out and a lot of people have have reached out and I have new clients so so feel free if that’s if you feel called to work with me in a in a, in a more individual way we can look about Sure.

Guy 55:17
Yeah, absolutely. And then for anyone listening to this for press pause, the links will be below. Anyway, below this, wherever you’re listening to whatever channel it goes on so many channels. I can’t keep up myself these days. But Jonathan, look, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Your Enthusiasm is infectious is is bursting through the screen. Right? And I have no doubt everyone listening today would have felt the same thing. And yeah, I greatly appreciate your time for coming on.

Jonathan 55:42
Thank you. Mahalo. Great to be here. Thank you.

Guy 55:46
Amazing, guys. Thanks for tuning in today. Hope you enjoyed that conversation with myself and Jonathan, and I loved it. There’s plenty to ponder on there. And if you are wanting to keep up to date with us and you haven’t done so I’d suggest even subscribing to our newsletter. We’ll keep everyone up to date there. If you want to start to put this work in a much more practical basis here in Australia or wherever you are in the world. You know, and if you’re enjoying them, reach out to me, let me know. I always love hearing from people. And yeah, hopefully it’s making a difference in your life like it does mine. Anyway, hope to meet you in person at some stage somewhere along the way. Have an amazing week. Much love for me and I will see you soon.