Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Paul:
Body Electric by Robert O. Becker at the time he wrote the book, the average person was exposed to more information in one day than somebody born prior to 1900 was exposed in their entire lifetime. We’re at a time where people are so inundated with information. That they’re not using good filtration systems to decide what they should or shouldn’t expose themselves to.

The soul’s always guiding you and the way it lets you know you’re moving in the wrong direction is conflict arises in your life, either conflict in yourself or conflict in relationships or addictions. If you look at what defines spirituality, one of the best definitions of spirituality is a progressively expanding sphere of awareness.

Through continually studying and being aware you grow until you realize that what you are took the entire universe to create.

Guy:
Paul, we’re recording. Welcome back to the podcast, Paul.

Paul:
My pleasure, Guy. Thank you.

Guy:
It, uh, I’m always intrigued and I have to say, and I wanna say publicly on air. Not that I wanna blow smoke up here or anything, Paul, but you’ve been a quietly influencing me over the years. The work you do, the work you put out there, your podcasts, I always feel like I am constantly in awe and learning something every time you share something.

So I just wanna say I’m very grateful and if I can pay back that gratitude in some way today by being able to share you with my audience and the, and the gathering we got with the podcast here, then I, I feel very blessed mate. So thank you for giving me your time and being here today.

Paul:
Uh, my pleasure. And, you know, I’m glad to be able to share and I try to make the, my podcast as informational as possible, and so it’s not just a bunch of yucky yak, as you know, from listening to it. So I put a lot of work into it and

Guy:
yeah, I can tell, I can tell. I have to ask you though, mate, like I’m always blown away and I, and I appreciate life experience allows us to grow in wisdom and, and life’s lessons and things that we can pass on.

Yeah. But, but you, you seem to have this way to be able to recall information at the drop of a hat and share it. And that that information is vast and wide. And I always wonder like, what are you doing over there? Like how do you, do you have a methodology of of taking it in? Yeah, I do. To make sure you retain it.

Otherwise it just becomes in and it skips right out. Do you know what I mean?

Paul:
I do. And to be honest with you, I’ve forgotten more than I can remember. So there’s a lot of stuff that I used to be able to remember. I mean, I could tell you not only the book, but the exact page in paragraph that I was citing from when I was younger, but you know, I’m 61 now heading right for 62 this summer.

And, and so I don’t think it’s necessarily a case of aging as much as it is. I have studied so much material and, and with so many people and I spent, you know, probably the majority of, I would say the first half of my life traveling the world. Looking for the best people I could find in the key areas that I knew I needed to learn more about.

And I amassed, uh, you know, over well over 5,000 hours of classroom time just with workshops and experts. Wow. And I think what happens is, you know, because I’ve been doing this, this, this, uh, January, 2024 will be 40 years for me in clinical work and practice and coaching and being a therapist. So I’ve had a lot of time to investigate a lot of different areas because, you know, as a holistic health practitioner, I, I look at every aspect of a person’s life.

So it’s not just like I’m studying musculoskeletal rehabilitation or just endocrinology or one system. I have to study the physical, the emotional, the mental. The metaphysical, spiritual, um, you know, all aspects of what it means to be a human being in order to do my work effectively. And as you’re probably aware, people come to me from all over the world with serious problems that they’ve tried over and over again through the medical system and various other paths to resolve.

So I’ve spent my whole career dealing with medical failures and challenge cases. So these were cases that required a tremendous amount of depth of study exploration, research, calling doctors all over the world, asking if they’ve seen cases like this before, what would they do? So I think part of it is, is that as I’ve moved on, once I reach a level of functional mastery, there’s no sense, you know, once you know enough about a lumbar disc, you don’t need to study discs for the rest of your life.

’cause it’s a waste of time. So I think because I’ve stair stacked so many stages of development that it’s just actually hard to hold on to the acute memories I had of the literature back, you know, years ago. But once I start talking to somebody about things, all of a sudden these, uh, citations pop back up into my mind and I, I, I’d thought I’d forgotten about them.

But many years ago, I studied, uh, I was doing a lot of study of Brian Tracy’s work, who’s a real business mogul, and I can’t remember what course of his I studied, but it had a system for studying that he called the OPIR method, which I put to work, and I found it very effective. So OPIR is an acronym overview preview in view review.

So he suggests whenever you get a book or, um, audio book or any, any, anything you’re gonna study, do an overview of it. Look at the summary of what’s in the book or the abstract of the research paper. Look to see how credible the authors are and get a sense if, if it seems like it’s moving you in the direction you want to go.

If it’s not, then don’t waste your time. Um, preview means look at the table of contents for key topics. Look through the index for key words. So for example, whenever I’m reading a book on spiritual development, I will look up keywords like God, soul, spirit, and if they don’t have definitions of those words in there, I know one that you’re never gonna really know what they’re trying to say because without knowing.

Hmm, the individual definition of those words, it, it opens up a huge door to misinterpretation. So I might not put much effort at all into a book like that because it’s too fuzzy. Um, in view means once you’ve looked at the table of contents in the index and identified key words, read the sections of the book that are most relevant to what it is that you wanna know, and then if you feel the rest of the book has value, then finish the whole book or whatever it is you’re studying.

Review means once you’ve identified what the action items you’re gonna do, that’s one of the things that I do that most people don’t do is when I’m studying anything, I’m always saying, okay, is there a patient that I’m working with that this applies to, that I can, I. Try this approach with, because it’s relevant.

Is there something that I’m working on or could work on in my personal or professional life where I can apply this concept and see if it enhances my communication or my relationships or whatever, whatever it is. So as I’m writing my notes, I’m leaving notes about what I can do to test the applicability of this information, and then I go do it.

Got it. And then I keep notes on how that plays out and the review. You, you set a time in your calendar, for example, you say, okay, in six months I wanna review my notes on this book so that I remember what might be important. So that’s a simplified version of, of the system that I develop. But one of the key things is you see most people go to schools.

Or universities or degree programs, not because that’s their genuine love or interest, but because they got kind of pushed into it by parents and social ed and educational influences, but their heart’s not really in it. And so one of the key things for memorization is that if there’s not a positive attraction, like a A, what I would call a genuine love of, there’s not enough emotional energy to make that information stick.

So I have made a habit of not reading anything that wasn’t Im important to me for some reason. So, you know, if I’m working with a patient who’s got a real serious problem, then I wanna do a good job for that patient. So I have a reason to really study as a good student, not just read, to try to keep up with the Joneses or sound cool at a conference or something.

And so if you don’t have that emotional component, you don’t have enough energy or amperage, shall we say, in the neurological networks to, to build a new neural network to hold the information and with the pace that information moves through our life. You know, um, in, uh, the Body Electric by Robert O. Becker, he, and this book was written in the nineties. He, he showed, at that time, the average person at the time he wrote the book, was exposed to more information in one day than somebody born prior to 1900 was exposed in their entire lifetime. Ah, so, you know, and that was in the nineties? It was in the nineties.

Yeah. So Imagine, you know, information processing speed doubles every 18 months. So we we’re at a time where people are so inundated with information. That they’re not using good filtration systems to decide what they should or shouldn’t expose themselves to. And because there’s so much of it that’s just propaganda.

Hardly anybody has a sense of what is or isn’t true. And because very few people have the knowledge of how to evaluate a scientific study for its validity, they just believe stuff is scientifically valid, and that that can be extremely dangerously misleading, especially as a therapist. But, uh, the point I’m driving at is the flow of information.

Now, even for a kid fooling around with a phone is so vast that you end up getting exposed to a sea of information, but ultimately very little of it does anything to enhance your life because there’s just so much. It’s like when you go to a restaurant that has 300 menu items, you can sit there and paralysis trying to figure out what you want.

But right next door is some exotic French restaurant. That has five things on the menu, all of which are fantastic, and you just say, okay, I’ll have that one. So I think it’s not just a matter of having a passion, a mission, and a vision for yourself and your studies, but it’s also being careful that you’re not overexposing yourself to so much information that you lose touch with what’s important.

And you also risk not taking the time to evaluate the quality of the information and the accuracy of the information. And so if you don’t do that, you could start believing a lot of stuff that isn’t true. And you know, in my career of being involved in many debates and conferences all over the world, I absolutely, unfortunately destroyed many of the people debating me because they would cite research.

To justify their opinion, which was antagonistic to what I was presenting. But I could destroy that research very easily and have done it many times on stage. I would just simply say, okay, how did they come to that conclusion? And I would say, well, there’s no way you can come to an effective conclusion with a study design like that because it’s not even the right study design.

So that, that’s a sort of a quick summary of, of my circle.

Guy:
No, it’s beautiful. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for sharing. And there’s so many things I wanna jump on now that you actually spoke about. And how much do you think? And just touching on my own journey for a minute, because why I’m so passionate about getting this podcast out there and, and what I do is ’cause.

In my own journey. I avoided the system for a long time because I didn’t know who I was or how to identify that. And I didn’t have role models around me to take me under my wing and guide me. Yeah. But I knew, I knew enough not to kind of fully buy into what was being delivered on the conveyor belt, if you like.

Right? Yeah. That’s what it is. A conveyor belt. And that caused a great deal of loneliness and sadness in my, in my early, in my twenties and early thirties. And then leaning into the inner work. I had an awakening. Now, from that, it really started to make me think, well, why haven’t I been taught this? What is it about life?

’cause it, it made such a big difference to me, and an understanding and being able to lean into love, faith, compassion, and have deeper understanding for other human beings. But what you speak about today is that we like, especially with that nervous system and like we’re receiving more information now in a day, is terrifying.

And. I’m curious to know, Paul, with all your modalities of work and that you explored, how much, how important is it to, to nurture that connection back to, to spirit, to source, to have that embodied in our lives on a daily basis? ’cause from what I can feel and see out there, we, we tend to, we are missing that because we are so stimulated and overwhelmed with just stress and day-to-day life.

Paul:
Well, you see, if, if you don’t have a value or an ethic for your learning and your study, that includes practice, then what happens is your head just gets full of ideas and they don’t actually become lived. You see, knowledge is not power. Applied knowledge is power. And to apply knowledge, you inevitably make mistakes in the application of knowledge.

In the process of making mistakes, you gain experience. And the synthesis of experience is wisdom. So what happens is you get a lot of people that are intellectually smart, smart, but are not very wise because they don’t really know if what their smartness is is actually, um, empirically correct. A good example would be is if I put you in school to be a cardiac surgeon and you spent four years studying you, and now of course they educate doctors and anatomy on computers, most of them drop their cadaver labs.

But after four years you graduated and your first patient as a professional cardiologist that you had to operate on turned out to be your mother. Would you feel that you had enough real experience to risk operating on your own mother? Most people would say no. That would be way too scary. So the point is, in our education system, people spend years, four years for a a bachelor’s degree, two years for a master’s degree, and then two or three years for a PhD.

But oftentimes they’ve been in school by the time they get a PhD, they’ve been in school for 10 years, but they haven’t actually got any field work. They haven’t, you know, I’ve met physical therapists that spent almost four years before they ever got their hands on bodies. So by the time they get out, stuff they learned four years ago, they don’t even know if it works.

They can’t remember how to try it. So you see, if we don’t make a practice of embodying the knowledge. Then it’s really just like data in a computer. It doesn’t matter how much data’s in a computer, it can’t weed your garden for you. It can’t fix your car for you. The only way it can make changes in your life is if you engage that information in a realistic practice of some kind.

Find out what its weaknesses are and find out what your own weaknesses are. Like some people are just too lazy to do the work of real learning. So what happens is you begin to have an embodied level of knowledge and you make mistakes and you pay attention to what happens so you know what not to do in the future.

And ultimately with seasoning, you know, like a wine that matures, then you start developing authentic wisdom. You know, it’s like I, I can walk into a. Clinic or into a gym. And without even evaluating someone, just watch ’em walk across the room and usually tell ’em more about them than their parents know.

Because I’ve spent 40 years evaluating people at a very deep level, physically, emotionally, and mentally and spiritually. And so you start learning what are the, for example, how does the body broadcast mental emotional problems? How does the body broadcast liver dysfunction? How does it broadcast colon dysfunction?

So as you start working with all these connections, then you get to the point where you’re like a bloodhound that knows exactly how to follow a scent trail and how to pick up on all the cues. And so having educated so many doctors and physical therapists and chiropractors and osteopaths and nurses and massage therapists, and you name it.

I know how their minds work. I know what they’re taught, and the thing I see over and over again is, is they don’t really get educated in a way that gives them practical knowledge that can be cultivated to wisdom. They just have a head full of ideas, and they often are confused why they don’t work when they finally test them, but they should have been testing the stuff long before.

And so that, that’s basically what I’m saying is, is you’ve gotta get your knowledge from your head down into your body and into the earth, which is into, you know, relationships. Relationships with the engine you’re working on, relationships with the people you’re working on, relationships with the garden you’ve planted, or you never really get to know if it’s knowledge or if it’s just information.

Guy:
Yeah. To me it, it feels that’s the challenge, isn’t it? It’s, it’s actually creating the space and time to nurture those relationships with our environment and the people and everything around us. There seems to be such a fast pace to everything. We just, we just keep doing and we stay in our head.

Paul:
Well, it’s true and it’s actually quite dangerous because if you keep just doing, doing, doing and sort of staying on the treadmill and you don’t take the time to do the things that I’m saying, the ego starts to really believe.

It knows a lot and then it positions itself in relationships personally and professionally as though it knows a lot. But then inevitably what happens is it gets put into a situation that requires real knowledge or wisdom and it can’t figure out why it’s stuck and can’t move forward. And it was interesting too.

I remember when I was in sports massage therapy school. I wasn’t even close to the highest score on most of the tests. I typically would get around 82 to 86%. But forever all the people that were the top scores on the test were coming to me to ask me how to pass the hands-on test. ’cause they were always good at the written tests and I was always taking everything I learned and practicing.

In fact, I had a, a practice, a sports massage therapy practice while I was in school. So I would go to school, learn, and then go practice and a practice. And I kept saying to these guys, what are you asking me how to do this for you? You’re the one that’s always getting 98% on the tests. And they say, yeah, that’s ’cause I have a good memory, but you actually know what you’re doing.

I used to laugh at that, you know, I’m like, well, maybe you ought to change the way you study because it doesn’t matter if you pass tests, if you can’t pass the test of being a good therapist.

Guy:
Totally. I wanna, I wanna ask you about the ego, Paul. Yeah. And you know, we all seem to, um, have one what, especially especially in our younger years, what are you, what are your thoughts on the ego even then with the, the soul and its development through life and the purpose truly of the ego and how we work with it and not enslave us unknowingly?

Paul:
Well, um, first of all. I get irritated when I see all these spiritual gurus and teachers and authors bashing the ego. You gotta get rid of the ego. It’s such a shallow understanding of the ego. The ego is the ego is the gift of God, of individuality. Without the ego, there cannot be an experience of love because the ego is self differentiation.

You see, if you had no ego, you wouldn’t know. You were talking to Paul Check right now. You’d think maybe that I was just another part of you, or, or a a, a tree in the forest or something like that. So it’s your ego that gives you your sense of self, which ultimately is what leads to individuation in union psychology, the ability to be a self, uh, responsible agent in the world that contributes to the world and isn’t a codependent or a child that needs other people to care for it.

Um, so the principle of the ego, first and foremost is that without a sense of I, there can be no thou to love and all love relationships. Are I thou, if I love racing a car, that I love my car. If I love my kids, it’s, I thou if I love my wife or wives, it’s I thou. Um, so first and foremost, you can’t have love without the illusion of in of separation.

Okay? Second of all, if you didn’t have an ego. You would have no way to evaluate your own sense of yourself and where you could grow and become and you wouldn’t have your own personal interest. You see, what the World Economic Forum is doing is essentially trying to abolish the ego so that everybody in the world becomes like robots, all controlled by one control mechanism.

That’s the most dangerous thing you can do. And so without the ego, you don’t have this sense of individuality, which in nature is diversity. So the same way they’ve taken, you know, I like, and I remember, I remember reading, uh, in a farming journal years ago that there’s something like 174 species of apples and this, this was a journal, um, from England and they said that now.

Only something along the lines of three to five species of apples are raised by about 95% of the farmers. So what you see is if you have 195 different types of apple tree, they’re all gonna be specialized to survive in slightly different environments with slightly different microorganism populations, with different amounts of light and shade, um, with different amounts of rain and dry.

So if something comes along and you’ve only got three to five different species of apples, none of which are very good at low water situations or a drought, you lose everything. But if you’ve got 175 species of apples, you have enough diversity that there’s always going to be apples around in almost any environment.

So when you start saying, okay, the ego gives us individuality, which gives us diversity like different types of apples. When you start seeing religious monocropping and social monocropping, which is what Nazism was all about, get rid of everybody but the Aryans and try to narrow it down to just the one elite race, which is exactly what the World Economic Forum is doing.

And it’s exactly what’s happening in universities all over the world. They’re, they’re letting the education be more and more controlled by corporate interests that fund them. You know, the average medical doctor’s, uh, education, 60% of the average medical doctor’s education is paid for by drug manufacturing company.

So there’s no way you can exclude that much influence from the curriculum. And what do we have today? We got doctors all over the world, most of which don’t know anything about the real natural functions of the body, the etiology of the Ds. The average doctor spends less than six minutes with a patient.

The average doctor has been found to interrupt their patient within 20 seconds of the patient trying to talk to the doctor, and they’re all prescribing out of a book the same d uh, you know, DSM manual. They, they just, and they, they look at data, they don’t look at people. So what you’re seeing in, in this example is a monocropping of medicine that excludes diversity.

Now if you say, okay, I’m, I’m, I’m gonna look at the symptom profile of a hundred people that all have adrenal fatigue. Well, you’re gonna have a hundred different symptom cases, and there’s gonna be some commonalities amongst them, but there’s gonna be vast differences. One’s going through a divorce, another one’s got a parasite infection, another one’s got a fungal infection, another one lost their mother in a car accident a month ago, and is in a deep state of grief, et cetera.

So as soon as you start monocropping people. Which means you abolish the ego and turn them into basically, um, a school of fish. Then you lose the diversity. And, uh, you know, I saw Elon Musk, um, in an interview at the Davos meeting of the World Economic Forum, and he was very honest. He said, I don’t think this whole idea of making everybody in the world the same is a good idea because National, national Nationalism makes sure that each of us is doing things slightly different.

So if there’s ever a significant disaster, we have multiple approaches and it enhances our survivability. So getting rid of the ego is the same thing as getting rid of diversity in nature, which decreases survivability. And the more you get rid of the ego, the more you have people thinking and therefore creating along the same lines and therefore more unconscious of the potential risks and mistakes.

Of that line of thinking. For example, chiropractic and osteopathy have a lot of similarities, but a lot of differences. Chiropractic, osteopathy, and physical therapy have a lot of similarities, but a lot of differences. So if we said, okay, we’re gonna get rid of the differences and we’re gonna make them all the same, there would be a lot of people that couldn’t get help by a chiropractor, but could get it by an osteopath or a physio.

So we don’t wanna get rid of the ego, but what we wanna do is, you see the ego goes through a natural stage of evolution. First. It’s eye centric. A child is always eye centric. Mommy, I’m hungry, mommy, I’m thirsty, mommy, I want me, me, me. I’m tired. Because the child has to focus on itself, or its chances of survival go down.

So it has to be self-oriented as a survival strategy. We grow from. I centric to ethnocentric, which is my group or my tribe, who are my people. And that’s the, that’s about the highest that most of the religions in the world get to as ethnocentric, which means my group against your group. And so you see all this warring about what God is and what God wants and, and who is the chosen people.

And so you, you end up with this low level of development because the ego just extends itself to a group. Then we evolve to world centric, where all of a sudden through our life experience, through our studies, we come to realize, wow, you know, the way they do things in Africa is different, but there’s a lot of really, like African food is good, African music is good African.

Spirituality’s different. They’ve got some neat concepts. Then you get a Christian that finds a book on Buddhism and, and all of a sudden sees the world in a much more expanded way. And you get artists that start working with, you know, electrical engineers and, and, um, aerodynamics engineers to make new models for cars.

And you, you, so you see that as we grow into this world centric orientation, it shows that our sphere of influence is expanding. So our sense of our self and in the world is not just mommy and daddy or the people that practice the same religion I do. We realize that wow, the music I like comes from all over the world.

I love food from all over the world. I love religions from around the world, and I see the world as much more wholesome that way. And I see a lot more pro more solutions to challenges by looking at different systems of thinking. And so as you grow, you, you actually start to recognize yourself in the Africans, in yourself, and the Brazilians and the Mexicans and the Chinese and the Germans and the, you know, Norwegians.

And then you go, wow, there’s so much beauty in Zora Astrom in this regard. I don’t really like this part, but boy, this part’s beautiful and the Hindu religion, it’s fascinating. And boy, it’s amazing. After studying Buddhism and Hinduism, I, I realize I’m not gonna burn in hell for sinning. And so you real, you feel much more free.

So if you look at what defines spirituality, one of the best definitions of spirituality is a progressively expanding sphere of awareness. So you start to be aware that, you know, if I said guy, you know, who made that microphone hanging in front of you? Well, you look on it, you might find it was made in, uh, anywhere.

It could be made in China, it could be made in, um, Rochester, New York. Then you say, okay, who made your keyboard? Oh, maybe it’s a Mac. It was made by Mac, somewhere in the United States. But my point is, when you start looking around, even in your own house, who made your glasses, who made the earphones in your head, you realize people with completely different mindsets, completely different ways of relating skill sets from all over the world are involved in everything that we do.

So as we grow spiritually. And as we grow as students, we start realizing that the whole world is involved in the creation of every one of us. And so instead of getting rid of the ego, you start transcending the limitations of the programmed ego, and all of a sudden your ego becomes more and more porous.

And that’s what it means to become self-realized, right? The ego represents the little self, the I me mind. But the capital SELF represents everything that supports you, which is the earth, the water, the warmth of the sun, the air that you breathe, the house you live in, the car you drive, the family that you have, the friends you have, the people that have educated you.

And then you realize, wow, well, nothing on life on No life on earth could exist without the sun. So hell, the sun lives in Me too. Right? Totally. So you get to the point where you come to the realization, and this is called the Positiv path of spiritual development. Through continually studying and being aware, you grow until you realize that what you are took the entire universe to create.

Or you can take the Daoist path, which is called the Negativa path, where you unlearn and unlearn and unlearn until your head so empty that the whole world pours into it. Like an empty cup that can hold anything. But our western culture is more positiv add to add, to add to. Finally all the dots connect and you go, holy shit.

It took the whole universe to make me. And that leads to even more interesting questions like, well, if it took the whole universe to make me, then when I die, it certainly can’t be the end because why would the universe invest all this time, energy, and resources into making something that’s just gonna die?

And then you look at the second law of thermodynamics, which basically says, energy produced cannot be destroyed, only transformed, and everything in the entire universe is made of energy and information. So then all of a sudden you realize science even backs reincarnation without realizing it.

To me, that’s, I’m So that’s the fun of learning is funny.

Guy:
The older I get, the more questions I have.

Paul:
Right. That’s, that’s how you know you’re getting smarter.

Guy:
I, I hope so. It sometimes doesn’t feel that way, you know? Um, I’m so glad I asked that question then leaning into that a little bit more, ’cause you spoke about spiritual growth is a, is basically an expansion of awareness then. Yeah. If, if that’s the case and if we are, you know, self realizing God is all within us and all around us and we are part of that and it is part of us is, what are your thoughts then on that expansion? Is that where we start to get in trouble? That ego is clinging onto the the, I guess the what it’s bought into and the physicality of it all. Because it seems to be that, I’m trying to articulate the question ’cause there seems to be a pain that tends to have to arise before we actually start to look beyond what we see with our very eyes.

Paul:
Well, the pain arises largely because in the process of spiritual development, we begin being told what we can and cannot do, which is part of cultural indoctrination. It’s called enculturation. It’s enculturation that begins the development of the personal shadow. So for example, if somebody likes to masturbate, but they’re told you can’t do that if you’re a Christian or you can’t do that, if you live in this house, then you have to take the instinct that’s in all of us and in all animals for self pleasure.

And you have to repress it. If you have the urge to dance in the rain naked because you just feel a love for life, you can get thrown in jail for that. And the next thing you know, you gotta repress your urge to dance. And then if you get more criticisms because you’re dancing’s too wild, then you are afraid to dance. And so if you start looking at all the ways that we get enculturated and then have to repress the authentic self, which is natural for a child to express.

Our, our group that we are programmed into as a child stays quite narrow. And so the heart begins to develop impulses because the soul is trying to direct you to the people, to the places, to the things, and to the subjects that you came here to learn. And that’s part of the growth and individuation process because if you don’t break outta the mold, you see first you’ve gotta build a mind before you can blow it.

The heart can only, the heart is the only part of us that can deliver justice to the head. So we can make a lot of decisions based on academic or intellectual information and ideas that turn out to be very unfair when evaluated from the heart, for example, the head says.

Regularly, um, survival of the fittest. If I can make more money than you, I’m gonna do whatever the hell I want with it. It’s your problem. You starve to death. And so what do we have a world full of billionaires that are flying expensive rockets to planets? Well, we’ve got about 4 billion people that can barely get enough food and water to survive, yet they have the money to do that.

So you see, their heart is not connected to their head yet. So the pain teacher shows up whenever we’re moving in a direction that might make us feel safe in the group that we are indoctrinated in and develop a mind or an ego in. But if we don’t grow ourselves to be strong enough to stand on our own two feet, which is what all initiation s uh, uh, ceremonies and tribal associations were indoctrinations into adulthood.

They had to teach them to leave the child behind, to accept the responsibilities, to support life, even in war or risk of death. So we’ve lost the wise elders. We’ve lost the indoctrination into adulthood. So what happens is people actually keep extending their sense of self to people with the same ideologies, the same rules, which leads to no exploration of the repressed material, no novelty of expression.

And so we ultimately delay our individuation, which means that we’re willing to explore whatever our heart wants us to explore, even if mom and dad don’t agree with it. Right. I’ll give you a great example. One of my instructors, Nicole Devaney, when she came to begin in the Czech Academy. She was a professional stripper and a pole dancer, but certainly that was probably not something her parents really condoned.

But she felt that it was a great way for her to express her creativity, to stay fit and to make a good living. But then when she became a Czech professional, she realized that that was a very limiting expression of herself. And then over time, she became one of my best instructors. She studied shamanism, became a shaman.

She started women’s groups healing women. She went deeper and deeper into her spirituality. She did, you know, probably by now, a couple of hundred plant medicine ceremonies that brought her into contact with her shadow and her unconscious. And so here you can see a person who, in her lifetime. Engaged ways of expressing herself that did not get the favor of the tribe or the parents, but she inside of herself followed her own impulse, even when it meant being extricated from people that you love.

And so you see, if you don’t do what Joseph Campbell says and go on the hero’s journey, then you actually stay in the child archetype. And you always become the codependent, you’re the child of the church, you’re the child of the government. All you gotta do is look at the, the whole issue with COVID and how many people just ran off to get inoculated without even thinking about it, without even looking into the ingredients, without looking at the science, et cetera.

And, uh, now look at the massive number of people that ended up seriously injured and dead because they did more research on their new toaster oven than they did on this potentially life-threatening. Uh, proposal. So there you see a lack of individuation and the need to stay in conformity with the herd.

This is why Joseph Campbell says, the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you need the most. He also says, when it comes to the hero’s journey, mm-hmm. If you are about to go on an adventure and there’s a path that’s well traveled, don’t take it. If there’s a path that’s less traveled, don’t take it.

Carve your own path. And then it’s your own. And that’s how I’ve lived my life. You know, I only have a ninth grade education. That’s as far as I went because I found it so frustrating. Teachers couldn’t answer my questions, and then they got mad at me for asking questions. So I was being punished for being an inquisitive student that asked good questions.

And so I thought, why I learned more from being on the job and asking people that really do a good job than I do from my teachers. And when I was in a Christian Church, I got in trouble for asking questions. And so I thought, well, I, I obviously don’t fit into this church because if, if, if I can’t get my questions answered, then, then I can’t trust that I’m with people that are worth being with.

So, in a nutshell, two things have to happen. You have to individuate and be brave enough to be honest with yourself, which means listen to your heart and you’ve gotta be able to be. Brave enough to stand on your own and trust your inner guidance system, which is the soul’s most, the soul’s most. Um, this is a metaphor of course, but the soul’s home is in the heart.

So if your heart’s not giving you good guidance, then you never know whether there’s a, a conflict between the head and the heart, because if you just listen to what other people are telling you and what science is so-called telling you, which has got a lot of people killed, almost every drug and every medical procedure that’s killed, uh, countless people with scientifically approved only later to have to be reevaluated.

So if, if we summarize what I’m talking about, it’s the journey from the head to the heart, and some people take a very long time to get to the heart or never get there. And some people never get there because they were never taught how to get there. It hasn’t been modeled to them. But at the same time, the soul is always guiding you.

And the way it lets you know you’re moving in the wrong direction is conflict arises in your life, either conflict in yourself or conflict in relationships, or addictions or fetishes or phobias, or what Yung would call a neurosis, which is an adaptive crisis. So whenever we’re not able to deal with the stress of not being ourself, we have to move that psychic energy out of us, or it’ll give us a disease or, or kill us or cause us to commit suicide or become very depressed.

So in neurosis, picking at your skin, biting your fingernails, obsessive compulsive disorder, addictions, they’re all ways of dissipating all the chaos. Which wouldn’t be there if we just listened to our heart and celebrated our authentic, unique self and trusted that. There’s always people that see the world in ways that are supportive of us.

So we don’t always have to be Christian. We can go explore other families and tribes and belief systems. Mm-hmm. We don’t always have to, you know, be a Freudian psychologist. We can also study union psychology, we can study transpersonal psych. We, you know, there’s a lot of ways. So it’s, it’s, it really boils down to are you brave enough to be who you came to the world to be?

And then you get to suffer the pain of being a unique individual, which is a pain of growth, or you suffer the pain of repression, knowing at some deep level that you’re not becoming the person you came to be. The difference is the suffering, the pain of growth always produces growth. But suffering the pain of fear of participation always leads to a degradation of, and a delay of the cultivation and expression of the authentic self.

Guy:
That’s huge what you just said. You know, I’m, I’m listening to you, Paul, and there’s a, there’s a lot in there. I, um, I’m reflecting back on my own life. What do you think then, I’d love to, well, your opinion on what is the soul’s journey then? Because when I, when I look back and reflect on my life, I, like, I was definitely in that category.

I’d never been taught any of this. I, I didn’t know any of it, but I was brave enough to listen to something deeper. I didn’t even identify it as my soul at the time. Yeah. You know, I was working at, working in a nightclub at 15. I was on a building site at 15, becoming an apprentice plumber. And I, I, I was just like, how in the hell is this happening to me in my life?

Like, how did I end up here? I, it was like I had no control and then I was just waiting until I felt old enough to just leave and I was playing rugby at the time. And I’m curious to know, like when it comes to the soul’s journey then, what is it wanting to achieve? Are we set up for this life in certain aspects from it and the parameters are set so we can be brave enough to grow and, and allow that expansion of awareness to continue.

Because I do wonder if I hadn’t made those decisions at the time, what would’ve, what would’ve happened? Would it have happened later on in my life or would I have come up against a greater pain before I started to lean in?

Paul:
Well, only you can answer that ’cause you’re the only one that can look back on where you’re at now. You know, I wouldn’t be who I am and neither would you if you hadn’t gone through the path that you’ve gone through. The question is, are you at peace with and can you love yourself enough to be a whole human being and not be codependent on drugs and gimmicks and, uh, cars and clothes and jewelry and iPhones to identify yourself?

You see, if you don’t. Follow the impulse of the soul. Then what you do is you externalize the self such that you feel safe by identifying with things and people that are outside of you, but then you’re never gonna get to know yourself because yourself is inside you. The soul is the consciousness within an individual to put the soul very simply.

Its consciousness within an individual. Mark Gaffney has a beautiful way of saying it. He relates it to the self, but it’s true of the soul. He says, the soul is the infinite depth of God’s relationships within you as an individual. So if you really meditate on that, the soul is the infinite depth of God’s relationships within you as an individual.

That means that you are a body with a hundred trillion cells, each made of a hundred trillion atoms. That’s as complex as the entire universe for which there is no other expression of in the universe. There is no other guy Lawrence anywhere, and there never will be another one. And it took the entire universe, God’s infinite depth of relationships to create you.

And you carry that depth of intelligence, wisdom, love, and connection inside you. And that is the nature of the soul. And because God does not think the universe into existence, God dreams it into existence for a simple reason. God, by definition is unconditional love. Mathematically, that’s a zero. You can’t measure something that’s unconditional.

You can’t say there’s one of or or none of because you cannot measure it. The Dao cannot be measured. This is why Lasu said the Dao that can be S spoken is not the true Dao. The eternal Tao cannot be spoken. So because you can’t measure something that’s infinite. Okay? So the point I’m driving at is that God cannot think the universe into existence until God has dreamed it into existence because God cannot know God, and by definition is God. Is that for which there is no other. In other words, there’s nothing behind God. There’s nobody else to know. So the only way God can know itself and experience itself is to look into itself and dream up characters.

And isn’t it interesting? The first thing that happens when they put prisoners in, in solitary confinement, in a hole in the ground completely isolated, is they begin dreaming up imaginary characters to have relationships with. Or they’ll go completely crazy, they’ll lose their mind. So a mind is a duality that requires a subject object relationship.

Right now you’re listening to me talk, so I’m the object of your awareness and it’s the subject of God within you that’s the listener. So it looks like Guy is having a relationship with someone completely different. But the trick is, it’s God pretending to be guy and pretending to be Paul because Paul in his infinite depth of God’s intimacy.

Carries an aspect of God that God can relate to gain from and vice versa. And that’s how God guarantees its own evolution for its own self-realization, without which God would just be the most dangerously alone entity that could ever possibly exist. Mind does not emerge until God recognizes itself in the dream and says, ah.

The moment that guy realizes it’s God looking through his in his eyes and says, I see you, God, then you have now made contact with God at a conscious level. And now that relationship or love becomes conscious, which starts God in the process of its own self-realization as Guy. And as Guy grows, God grows.

And as. Guy, God grows, guy grows, and we all grow. So you see, the soul is dreamed into the plot because in the dream there are an infinite number of ways that God wants to experience itself. So, you know, imagine being a, a bumblebee. That’s a dream of God. Imagine being an antelope or a whale, or a rattlesnake.

Those are all dreams of God. You know, most people’s conception of God is so shallow. It’s unbelievable. I mean, if God has the energy to make a universe, and now a multiverse is well considered to be factual from a mathematical perspective. Let’s just say God has infinite amounts of energy, infinite amounts of information, infinite amounts of intelligence, infinite amounts of processing power and infinite amounts of processing speed.

What could you create? You could create anything and everything, and not only in time, but at the same time. So the reality of it is, is that God’s creating everything at once and the saying goes, time was created so that everything didn’t happen at once. So the point that I’m making is God’s dreaming itself into a conscious awareness of itself, which is the evolution of God, going from an unconscious dreaming state to a conscious state of awakening, which is exactly what the path of spiritual development is in us as above, so below as below, so above the hermetic axiom.

It’s real. And so the soul is dreamed into existence. Systems, at which time it awakes up to the relationship it has. And mind is an embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information, but you gotta look carefully. Mind is an embodied and relational process. That means that there has to be an entity embodied and there has to be other entities, or a relationship can’t exist ’cause a mind can’t exist unless there’s the flow of energy and information between two points of sentience.

Otherwise, you just have an information processor. A computer doesn’t know the difference between making an atomic bomb and making baby food. That’s an information processor. So you have to separate the idea of mind from the domain of tools and the domain of sentient conscious beings. I define love as the flow of energy and information through empathic and compassionate connection to self.

And or other. So love is the flow of energy and information Through empathic, I feel and compassionate I understand connection to self. I feel myself and I seek to understand myself between self or other. And mine is an embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information. And God can’t love anybody with, without someone to love. So a soul is God dreaming someone to love into existence. And as soon as that being of any type recognizes itself in the dream, it becomes a conscious co-creator in the dream, and a mind is created. So once you start praying to God, there’s two points of sentient sharing information that’s a mind.

Once you meet Paul, check and start a podcast, a mind is created that’s made of the two of us and creates a third mind. That’s a marriage of both of us. See. If people were just talking to you, listening to you on a solo cast, they couldn’t pick up my feedback. And if they were just listening to me without you, they would not have the guy component into it.

So, and Yung describes how whenever two get together, a third is created it as the marriage of the two of them. So anyone listening to us right now is getting the beauty of the fact that there’s a third mind created. That’s the marriage of me and you and Jesus himself said, whenever two or more get together in my name, I will be there.

He’s saying the same thing, right? So what I’m saying in a nutshell is the soul is a dream of God. That is a unique expression of itself. That is a necessary component to the puzzle of God’s own self-realization and its own evolution towards wholeness. Within each of us is the infinite potential of relationships, which we feel and know best through the compass of love.

And when we are following our intuition, our instincts, and our heart, we are drawn to the people, places, circumstances, and times that open the doorways for us to use our free will to choose to be who we came to be, or use our free will to resist becoming who we came to be. Because that’s where you have to face the choice of the hero’s journey.

What do I wanna face? The pain of being authentically me or the pain of not being me. And either way you go, you get to choose. But pain is ultimately the feedback loop that says, this is not producing love, or this is not producing connection, or this is not. The right GPS coordinates for you to be who you meant to be.

In other words, if you were still, uh, you know, doing the jobs you did when you were in your twenties, you’d probably have had a midlife crisis by the time you were 35 because a man with a mind like yours that’s interested in talking to people like me finds the edge of simple jobs very quickly and, and gets the feeling like I am not doing what I came here to do.

Which means you learned what it was that you came to learn. That’s a necessary building block for becoming the person you actually came here to be. And that’s how we know when we’re at the end of a soul contract with a certain teacher or a certain field of study or a certain relationship because it loses its flow of fulfillment, love, and a sense of connection, and it becomes.

Shall we say, um, like Groundhog Day and, and we and our heart’s not in it anymore. And that’s really the danger of staying with anything when it’s out worn shelf life because then you begin to rot and you gotta deal with the pain of stagnation. And that’s really what, first it shows up as anxiety. That’s your neurotic response to not listening to your soul.

And the next gift is depression for, for not listening to the God within yourself. And then if you keep playing the game long enough, then suicide, uh, becomes a natural, uh, alternative if you don’t get caught up in drug addiction. Because the more time you spend creating a life that you don’t wanna live, the more you have to medicate yourself to survive it.

Guy:
Boy, yeah. Thank you for sharing all that, Paul. That’s something that I’ll listen back to again. There’s a lot in that. I really appreciate it. I’m aware of the time from my end today, and there’s a couple of things I wanted to ask you before I wrap up the podcast.

Paul:
Yeah, no problem.

Guy:
And one, and one is, um, how do you nurture your soul on a daily basis? Because I know you’re, you’re even writing a book right now, and you’re, you’re, it’s like you, you’re constantly, um, expanding and growing. I can’t imagine you ever just putting your feet up one day and just going, you know, it’s, it’s,

Paul:
I’m actually writing very, I’m writing a, a series of six books. It’s a set six books. Yeah. It’ll be about, wow. It’s gonna be close to, it’s between 1700 and 2000 pages. I’m about 1200 plus in now. I’m, I’m, there’s 40 chapters total. I’m just finishing 33. Uh, I’ve been working on it day and night for three years. Um, wow. How I relate to my soul is, as I always relate to it, I mean. The more connection you make with the soul, the more you realize how you ever navigated the world with your ego at the wheel.

Because you look back on all the pain you created for yourself, all the mistakes you made, and you realize that you’re far safer and far more well-informed by taking the time each day to connect to your heart and to listen to that silent voice within yourself. Not the super ego, the parental figure that’s always telling you that you should have done this or should have done that, but the deeper part of yourself that always is there and always loves you, and is the consciousness within you, the God within you.

So you know, I start my day with prayers and and giving thanks and gratitude, and I use a variety of practice. I’ve been doing tarot for many, many years because it’s a chance for me to empty myself and let my soul guide me. To select the cards to tell me what is gonna unfold in my day and, and broadcast to me.

If trouble’s coming, how can I be ready for it so that I can handle it in meaningful ways and not just make things worse. Um, I connect with, with the soul of everything that I eat to give it thanks. I let my soul guide me in the selection of exercises and who I do podcasts with, and I connect to the souls of all my clients to ask them their, their own soul for guidance through life crisis, health problems, diseases, divorces, loss of jobs, loss of, of whatever.

Um, for me, really life is. Um, I think when you live life on the basis of information of loan alone, you’re, you’re dealing with something that could quickly take you into a flatland experience. Then flowers and trees are just objects that you use and you don’t really have any connection to the life and the essence in the flower and in the tree, and so you lose all moral connection to life.

But when you realize that what gives the flower the intelligence to grow and always know where the sun is, is the same thing that gives you the intelligence to grow and always where know, where the metaphor of the sun is, which would be the light of God, which is the, the energy of love and connection and honesty and creativity and, and also the willingness to.

To take care of your responsibility, because if love isn’t responsibility, then what is it? Right? You, you have a responsibility to your wife and your kids because you love them. So if we don’t live a life cultivating love with ourselves and our soul, then we actually never really develop a sense of responsibility for ourselves.

And if we don’t have a responsibility for ourselves, how can we res have a responsibility for others? And look, what we got is we’ve got the sickest, most obese, unhealthy drug laden population ever in the history of man, most of which can be tracked back to not loving themselves enough to pay attention to the creative power of their choices and using their free will in ways that actually ultimately lead them to disablement pain and self-destruction, which is how you destroy a culture.

Which is where you get to the point where a bunch of oligarchs say people are useless eaters, rats, vermin, and sheep, and they need to be controlled. There’s no such thing as God. There’s no such thing as a soul. You’re just a hackable animal. You’ll have nothing and be happy and we’re gonna do it till you like it or not.

You see, so what you see is these people are sort of like paradoxically, the tip of the sword of our own psychological and spiritual devolution. And to them, there’s nothing in the world but objects, money, power, and control. Because once you get rid of God, you get rid of the importance and primacy of love.

Once you get rid of the soul, you get rid of the necessity of a relationship with yourself. And now you become an object. And for as long as kings and emperors have been around, people have been objects that they can control with money and power. But we’ve actually reached the point where we have so badly destroyed the planet and so overly extracted the resources of the planet because we’ve come to relate to it as an object, not as a living being, and not as our mother and the source of our bodies and the source of our capacity to be here, to have this experience, to learn to work with polarity, consciousness, love, and creativity.

So the answer to how I work with my soul is, is really, um, it’s the only way I work because I learned that working from the ego and from information alone is so blind and so void of a deeper sense of connection that you forget that what can be logically correct. It can be very incorrect when you ask your heart.

Guy:
Okay. Thank you for sharing, Paul. Wow. The, um, just to wrap up the, the, the podcast then, um, what would, if there’s one question I could ask you with everything we’ve covered today, what would you like to leave the listeners to ponder on?

Paul:
Well, I would like to say if you really loved yourself and cared for yourself, how would that change the experience you’re having on a day-to-day basis? And what would the knock on effect be in all your relationships? And when you consider the principle of six degrees of separation, which means we’re only six people from getting to anybody in the world, if you want Tony Robbins and you don’t know him, if you use your brain, you should be able to reach him within six attempts because the rule of six degrees of separation.

So we’re never more than six people away from anybody in the world. So if we loved ourselves and watched how that changed us and how that impacted our children, our friends, and our coworkers, then you can see that we only need to affect six people before we’ve affected the entire world, basically. And so the question is looking at the state of the world today and all the segregation and isolation, segregation of sex, identity, sexuality, skin color, race, and about every other way they can figure out how to isolate people.

What’s our future look like if we keep playing that game? Because that’s a game that’s, it’s, it severely lacks love, consciousness and self-awareness. And it’s a game that only very unconscious, asleep, scared people who have no sense of autonomy or willing to play. And can you have a sense of autonomy without a love of yourself?

’cause if you don’t love yourself, then you’re never present in and with yourself. And it’s impossible to be an autonomous agent of co-creation with God or the universe or with others if you’re not in yourself and present with yourself. So the, the question I would leave everybody with is simply, how would your life change change if you really, actually genuinely loved yourself?

Were honest with yourself, gave yourself what you need and exemplified that to others. Knowing that the more you love and care for yourself, the more conscious you are and the more energy you have and the more love you have to give to other people. Because you know the, the heart is like a cup. Once you take the time to love yourself each day, it overflows to everybody around you.

And you can’t help it. You can’t help it. One person can walk into a room that’s happy and shift the entire room without even saying a word, because we can all sense that vibration and it raises our vibration. So I think paradoxically, as screwed up as the world is, it’s our invitation to practice managing our own world in ways that if emulated will make the world a better place to be.

Because this practice is based on love. I. Honesty and connection. And what’s got the world in trouble is not love, dishonesty and disconnection. So, you know, it’s the pain of growing in love is sustainable because it’s supported by love. But the pain of growing in isolation, power, control, and dominance over our people, lead you into, leads you into a checkmate situation because you always end up alone.

And you know, many movie stars, rock stars and billionaires can tell you all the money and all the sex and all the toys in the world isn’t fulfilling. ’cause look how many of ’em commit suicide. But you can find natives all over the world, aboriginals and Africans and Polynesians that don’t even have a basketball hoop with a net on it or a baseball bat, and they play with rocks and sticks.

But they’re happier and healthier psychologically than rich kids with all the toys. That are completely lost and on psychotropic drugs because their parents don’t raise them as children. They raise them as objects and, uh, don’t have time to really love them.

Guy:
Yeah. Thank you Paul. I can feel the love boost scenario you mate, every time I sit in your presence. I, I just wanna say thank you for carping out the time and, and coming on my podcast today, Paul. It’s greatly appreciated. And if anyone wants to find out more, I’ll make sure there’s links in the show notes to your podcast and your website. But can you just say them out loud as well, you,

Paul:
yes. CHEK institute.com is my institute. So you can see, you know, I have public programs, uh, how, um, holistic lifestyle coach level one takes people through how to apply everything in my book, how to eat movement, be healthy and more. Um, our IMS program, integrated movement science level one is a holistic. It’s the, it’s a comparable program to a personal trainer or strength training certification program.

But anybody in the public can also do it if you wanna just learn how to exercise correctly. So it’s the only program in the world that teaches you how to condition holistically. And there’s five levels to that program. But the, the, once you go past IMS one, it’s for professional training for people that wanna do it for a living.

But IMS one’s a, a general public program. Um, I think then Check Institute, you, we have our shop on there so you can see the items we recommend, you can see all the different books, audios, videos, courses, online courses that I have. Um, I have a blog, which is Paul C-H-E-K-S blog.com. Paul checks blog.com. Um, my YouTube channel, which has over 800 videos I’ve created, is a gift to the public.

Um, many of which are very comprehensive. I mean, almost anybody can get themselves healthy. Just studying my YouTube videos, that’s youtube.com/paul Check live, Paul, CHEK live. And again, there’s like 800 and something videos there. Yeah. For free.

Guy:
Yeah. I’ve dropped into a few of them. They’re, they’re quite, yeah, they’re very extensive. It’s incredible what you do. And, um, the podcast, are you getting to continue podcasting? Yeah. Are you enjoying it? You seem like you’re loving it.

Paul:
I do love podcasting. Yeah. I love, I love getting to meet super intelligent, amazing people. Yeah. I also love, you know, dialoguing and debating where necessary. Um, I love sharing. I mean, I used to have to, like, I can reach 50,000 people in one podcast. I used to spend a year traveling around in airplanes, and I’d be lucky if I could lecture to 50,000 people. I mean. Sometimes I do a hundred presentations a year and they might have anywhere from a hundred to 250 people in ’em. So, you know, that’s a lot of hard work.

But with a podcast I can actually share with enough people to really create a movement and help people have more, you know, tools, toys, and ways of thinking about life and find great people and great educators. And so, uh, once I launch my new book series is called Welcome to Spirit, Jim, your Guide to More Love, life and Freedom.

And I’ll be launching a membership program where I mentor people through applying the 10 principles for effective spiritual growth and development. And then I will just cut out my work with patients and clients and focus just on the podcast and on, uh, spirit gym. ’cause that’s, I think, the most important use of my time because at my age.

And with 40 years of experience, now you look at the world and realize helping people one-on-one, um, isn’t the best use of my time, knowledge, and wisdom because the world’s in such a state that I’ve gotta teach a lot of people how to eat, and a lot of people how to breathe. And a lot of people about sleep and a lot of people about movement and a lot of people about meditation and spiritual development.

Um, so I think my, my life force energy is better invested in, in big, socially driven programs than it is, uh, you know, one-on-one coaching. Even though I get paid very well, I, I don’t find it fulfilling. I feel like I’m moving in the wrong direction. And that’s an example of listening to your soul. I mean, there’s a lot of people that’ll pay me a thousand dollars an hour just to have me coach them, but if I make $10,000 that I.

And, and, and it takes me 10 hours to do it, and I could have done something that helps 40 or 50,000 people and then I’ve made a poor investment of my love. So that’s, you know, how the soul guides you

Guy:
For sure well, thank you Paul. Thank you for all that you do. You’ve certainly continued to have an influence on me, and I’m a fan of your podcast and I always tune in and I encourage everyone to check it out because you’ll get your mind blown.

That’s for sure. That’s good. Yeah, it is definitely good. Yeah. Paul, thank you. Uh, we really appreciate it. Much love. Lots of love. Thank you so much.

Paul:
Thank you. Stay well.