Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Guy (00:00:11):
Beautiful, Tom. Welcome back to the podcast.

Tom (00:00:14):
Yeah. Good to be here again, guy. What’s it been about a year,

Guy (00:00:20):
At least maybe even more, maybe 18 months, maybe even two years. It all seems to be a blur at the moment.

Tom (00:00:27):
Yeah.

Guy (00:00:28):
Um, you know, just, just, um, on a, on a side note I’ve been following you. I think I discovered your work time in 2015, so it’s probably close to seven years. I’ve been kind of in and out in the background and we’ve, we’ve done a couple of interviews on the podcast, and honestly, it’s been amazing to watch and, and have no doubt. You have been putting content up for a lot longer than that. And it’s just been amazing to watch the evolution of the work that you’re doing and how you’re reaching people and how it’s getting out there more and more and more. And I certainly wanna play my part today in continue to, to spread the, the incredible work that you do, Tom. And I’m always curious, what, what drives you? What, what, what is the passion behind that? Because it’s a mighty effort and you could be at a place in life where you want to just, you know, kick back a and have a margarita, but that’s certainly not the, not the case at all.

Tom (00:01:27):
No. Uh, I would like to actually kick back and spend more time with my wife. You know, I’m retired, she’s retired. And we always had this idea that when we were retired, we just could do what we wanted, you know, we would be together and it would be, it would be, uh, very relaxed, but it’s not it like that at all. You know, it’s very busy for, for both of us. We’re, we’re both, uh, just almost as busy as we were when we were, you know, getting, you know, paychecks and we’re, we’re not retired, so yes, I would like more time, but what, what drives me and why I do this just is because I think it’s useful. It’s helpful. And it’s helpful in many, in many ways. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s helpful to people in general, I guess that’s the main thing, you know, to help them understand who they are, uh, you know, to help them deal with the issues and problems and things they have in their life.

Tom (00:02:25):
You know, most people’s lives are, are full of anxiety and often emotional pain and problems. And, and, um, my work has a, has a way to understand that within a bigger picture and see what the cause is. And therefore, if you understand why it’s like that, then you can you change it because mostly it’s like that because of the things you do because of the, your ego, because of your beliefs. Now, it’s, those are the things that, that make, uh, life, uh, not fun and, and full of joy. So that’s one thing I just think is helpful and being helpful is, is most important thing. And the other thing is I, it introdu introduces a whole new paradigm to science and all of science, you know, not just physics, I’m a physicist, but not just physics. It’s, all of science has been stuck for a couple centuries now on basically Newton’s, you know, clockwork universe idea of materialism.

Tom (00:03:31):
And even in quantum physics where they have done many experiments to show that that’s not really, so they’re still stuck there because they don’t know what else to do. They, they see that, you know, that reality seems to be information based, not mass based or particle based. It’s not really about stuff, but they don’t know what to do with that. They don’t know how to take the next step forward to turn that into a science. It’s just like, yo, okay, we know that, but you know, now what? Yeah. So they’re just kinda stuck there, which leaves them still, you know, uh, clinging to materialism. Uh, and, and, uh, just not being able to explain their science very well. And that’s important because, you know, materialism as a, as a philosophy is a lot of things about it that aren’t really helpful. You know, the, the idea that, that there is no, there is no point for being here.

Tom (00:04:29)
You know, everything is random. It just is. There’s, there’s, there’s no purpose. There’s, there’s, uh, nothing you really need to be or not be. It’s all kind of a random event. And here we are interacting and it really means nothing. And that’s not very uplifting. That’s not very, uh, you know, it’s not a joyful idea and it, it kind of makes people less, uh, I don’t know, less caring, you know, it makes people see themselves more, more self in a more self-centered light. You know, it’s just me in this random world and I’m here to fight my way to the top and do the best I can with what I’ve got and make sure that I’ve got the things I need. And you, and it, it kind of creates a, a self-centered viewpoint of you versus the world. And that’s not very helpful either. You know, a lot of our, our, our greed and dysfunction comes out of that sort of an attitude.

Tom (00:05:31):
So it’s just not really a, it’s not good science and it’s not really good philosophy either. So the, the, my big toe that I bring will, will replace that material to, with another, um, completely different idea of how the world works and how reality works and where we do have a purpose and where, what we do and how we do it, and why we do it is, is very important. So anyway, so it’s just being useful. You know, I, I see that the, that the, the world is struggling with anxiety and with fear, and there there’s really no need, we, we do that to ourselves. So that’s what drives me is to be helpful.

Guy (00:06:23):
No, there’s so many things there, Tom, that you, you share that resonate so much, you know, it’s interesting, you know, on, on my journey, when I started reaching into my thirties, I started becoming aware of this, this work, if you like of this understanding of who I am, where I think for the first part of my life, it didn’t even occur to me. And, and as I started exploring myself and what it actually means to be human, the, the trade off has definitely been more peace within myself and not STR not looking externally, but also much more compassion for fellow humans that you speak of and actually caring, you know, and because you start to understand that there’s, there’s so much more than just the physical, and I guess my question to you is with everything that you’re doing, I, you are you seeing a shift over your time with people, do you think more and more people are starting to become aware of this work? And are you hopeful for the future?

Tom (00:07:29):
Uh, well, yes, to both of those, I do see changes and I am very hopeful. Um, I’m an optimist just by nature. Every everything is, uh, is, is good, you know, and, and life is good. And, and, uh, so I’m optimistic, but also being a realist. I, I can see that there’s a lot of change going on, uh, in the world. I mean, look at the, uh, you know, look at the response that we have to the, uh, uh, Ukrainian crisis, Ukrainian war that’s going on now, you know, if you go back a guy just 200 years, you would find Western Europe in the middle of an expansionist view, you know, and they were, they were, uh, colonizing the rest of the world, right. And they were competing with each other who could grab the best colonies. And what they’d do is they take their war machine and they’d, you know, bring their ships up on a coast, basically take over because they had superior military might, and then they would claim all of the, um, you know, natural resources as their own and get the indigenous people who live there to be their cheap labor.

Tom (00:08:48):
And that was all, you know, that was in Europe was a, was a great idea. It was a good thing to do. It was, you know, what we should do bringing civilization to the hens, you know, it was, uh, you know, it was that kind of a, an attitude. So that, that attitude falls into, you know, what I call like war, Lord mentality. You know, if, if you’re big and strong, then you can take over, what’s not big and strong. It’s, it’s yours for the, for the picking. And there’s no, there’s no moral or ethical issue with it. So there we were just 200 years ago, and that was the prevailing ethic say in, you know, in Western Europe. And because those were the powers in Western Europe that had the ability to go out, you know, and take over other people. Um, anyway, here we are 200 years later and we see that, uh, you know, the, the Russians running into a over nation, the Ukraine, and everybody’s going, how awful, you know, how terrible that’s not nice.

Tom (00:10:01):
That’s, that’s, you know, imoral unethical, it’s just wrong. And the world’s all is pretty well United on that attitude that is just wrong. So to me, that’s a lot of growth in just too high hundred years. We’ve, we’ve gone from the war Lord mentality that humans used, you know, that, that war Lord, uh, idea is what humans used basically for their social organization, right? As cities came together, whatever there was the, there was the one strong person who was the, who was the leader and made up all the rules. And we’ve had that now for almost 200,000 years, which is just about the whole time that homo sapiens been been on this planet. And just, you know, what, the, in the last a hundred, hundred 50 years we’ve seen that change, you know, this war, Lord mentality. So that’s, that’s good. And as far as the way we treat each other, we are much kinder and gentler now than, you know, in general than we were a hundred years ago.

Tom (00:11:13):
You know, if you look at, you go back a hundred or 200 years ago, and you’ll see, life was really cheap. You know, there were the powerful, and there were the weak and the week really didn’t have much to say about anything, you know, they could, they could basically be run over and, and, uh, you could do anything you wanted, you know, back in that, that day, what 200 years ago, or so we had the, in the United States, we had what we called the rubber Barrons, which were basically the, the very wealthy building, a railroad from the east coast to the west coast. And they didn’t have enough labor to do that. And that’s where the term being Shanghai came from, because they would send boats over to Asia and basically get people, tell them, tell them lies about, oh, we have a great job for you, or just grab, put a sack over their head and throw ’em in a boat.

Tom (00:12:03):
And now that’s called being Shanghai and they’d end up in, in, uh, California in the west coast. And then they would be used to work on a railroad and was seen as a, as a clever way to get labor. You know, today we’d look at that and say, how awful you just can’t grab people off the street and take ’em someplace to have them, you know, for cheap labor. That’s not right. But at the time, you know, nobody, there was no big outcry about, oh, that’s awful. You know, we can’t do that. It, it was okay. So you see, if you look, you know, if you really look back in time, just a few hundred years, you’ll see we’ve grown up a lot as a, as a, you know, a species humanity has, has changed quite a bit. And the one thing about growing up is that the more you grow up, the easier it is to grow up more, it accelerates.

Tom (00:12:55):
So you start out, let’s see, where’s my hand here. You start out with a curve, I’ll start over here and end of my finger will be the curve and it’ll go very, very slowly over. And then it gets real fast that curve shoots up. And I think we’re right now on that knee, that curve, where it begins to turn the corner and start to shoot up fast. So that makes me very positive about the, you know, the future we have now for the first time, all the, all the, the various pieces, we need to take a big step forward. We’ve been taking small steps forward. We take a really big step forward in quality of consciousness in growing up and getting rid of fear. And that last big piece of that step was the internet. You know, that’s, that’s another different between the, uh, you know, the early 18 hundreds where, uh, the Europe, Europeans were con uh, making colonies all over the world.

Tom (00:13:57):
And the people back home that was all about violence was taking place, you know, in a, in another, you know, some, some other place that they didn’t have to see. They didn’t really have to hear much about it. They just heard about the great successes that we had, you know, uh, taking over other countries and getting their resources and sub doing their people, but they didn’t actually see the price of that. They didn’t see the people beings, dude. So it was easy just to not think about it, not, you know, not accept it, not really deal with it. That’s not true. Now. Now we see up close and personal on the internet, everything that goes on and almost all over the world, there’s very few places in the world, but, you know, we don’t have a vision into what’s happening there. So that also helps us grow up.

Tom (00:14:47):
So the, the internet has allowed us to make humanity, a family again, or a small tribe, rather than this spread out bunch of people that, you know, that, uh, really don’t communicate with each other very much. Yeah. When you have a family or a tribe, generally’s much easier to have people be nice to each other. It’s all, you know, everybody kind of knows each other pretty well and goes out of their way to be nice, because these are people you have to live with. Well, when we have that attitude about all of humanity, we’ll, I’ll try to be a little nicer and we’ll see all these people or people we have to live with, you know, people that are, that are just trying to, to get by and, you know, have a, have a good life just like we are. And they’ll, it’s easier to have compassion.

Tom (00:15:38):
So yes, I think that, uh, we’re on the knee of that curve and we’re going to see our growth, our quality of consciousness, uh, the way we treat each other to get better and more productive. And I think it gets accelerating. So over the next two or three decades, I think we’ll, we’ll have, uh, even more progress. Yeah. And in science, that’s kind of the social, the soft end of, of the, my big toe, but on the science end, I, I see that happening as well. If they, um, you know, get this new paradigm I’m talking about together, then that will solve a lot of the outstanding paradoxes and mysteries of science that will take us, you know, a leap forward in understanding the nature of our reality. And that will be good for everyone as well. So yes, I see positive things to know that doesn’t mean that something horrible couldn’t happen. You know, the, the, there is free will, we can do things that go backwards. You know, this, this thing with, uh, Russia and the Ukraine could turn into a nuclear exchange among major powers and set us all back, you know, a millennia, but hopefully that won’t happen. But FreeWheel says, you know, we can always make really bad choices, but I think the potential for making good choices right now is, is probably greater.

Guy (00:17:08):
Yeah. Is the, it, there’s a couple of things that you’ve mentioned many times there. And I think it’d be nice to, to explore a little bit deeper around your work as well, because you, you talk about growth many times as, as a species, as a humans, as an individual, and also about removing, um, or letting go of fear and stepping into love more. And to me, I always, when I think about those things, cuz I, I think about it, we are all part of something much larger. Anyway, we are all connected, but in the Newtonian way, it’s all, like you say, separate physical and everything’s yeah. Mechanistic and mechanical and it just works like, like a clock kind of, um, attitude. Do you the, I guess the question I’m asking is is that ultimately why we are here, why we have experiences and why we have challenges is for that growth and to let go or move through fear.

Tom (00:18:10):
Absolutely. That is our whole purpose. Wow. To be here. That’s this virtual reality that we call the physical universe is a, is a reality that was created just so that we pieces of consciousness could have more useful choices, choices that would help us grow more meaningful choices, choices with consequences before consciousness just sat around and communicated with each other. That’s what consciousness does. You know, it transmits, it receives it, it communicates that’s, you know, it’s aware, we were aware of each other, other and aware of our environment. And there’s not a lot of growth in that. There’s a little growth in that, but it’s, it’s not much as far as growing, you need to make significant choices and not just who am I gonna talk to next? And what am I gonna say? But you know, real significant choices. So, so this virtual reality was created as a, what I call an entropy reduction.

Tom (00:19:18):
Um, um, virtual reality, you know, it’s a, it’s a, uh, like a, like a flight simulator. You know, it’s a, it’s an Py reduction simulator. If you will, for us pieces of consciousness to make choices in and buy those choices, we evolve and evolution means that we, we lower entropy, but what that really boils down to it’s a long kind of logical process, but what that boils down to is caring about other people not being so self-centered, so it’s kind of the opposite of where materialism takes you, you know, instead of the clockwork universe where everything is separate and nothing, nothing really matters. There’s no particular purpose involved. There is a purpose and that’s to evolve, evolve the quality of your consciousness, lower the entropy of your consciousness, or become love, become more caring, make it about other, not just about self, um, that’s what we’re supposed to be doing.

Tom (00:20:18): And why, because consciousness is an information system and information systems evolve by creating information, which is lowering their entropy. So it’s just the nature of our system. It’s not that this is system decided that would be a good idea, but it’s just the fundamental nature of our system. It is a system that is evolving. It can devolve, it can evolve if it devolves too far, then there’s no information everything’s random. So order is, is lower entropy, uh, things that have that matter things that have, uh, an ability to, to, to make changes and ability to do work is what they say in physics. But it’s a, you know, it’s ability to make a difference. You have that through order, not through randomness. So this system, just a natural system can evolve and lower it entropy, or it can devolve and basically die if it devolves too far. So it’s just evolving. And we are pieces of that system. We’re pieces of consciousness of that, uh, that system. So that larger conscious system is an information system. We’re a piece of it, we’re all together. And the way we learn best is by being in this virtual reality and interacting with each other, it’s about our relationships with each other, how we treat each other.

Guy (00:21:54):
So are we then as, and I use your terminology, an individual piece of the larger consciousness system. So does that mean our human experience and the choices we are making are directly giving information or PA passing and receiving information to the larger consciousness system to allow that to then evolve and for that growth. So we become part of that.

Tom (00:22:19):
Well, yeah, it, that’s, that’s pretty much the way it is, but a little different, and that is, it’s not so much we’re passing the information up is that we’re a piece of the system. We’re just a piece of that larger system. Uh, if you’re in computer terms, in computer terms, that would be, we’re a, a, uh, a virtual machine inside a larger machine. Okay. What that means is that you have a, you know, in computer terms, let’s say back in, I don’t know if it’s still this case, uh, a long time back, uh, the max, the max all had a virtual PC inside the Mac because there was a lot more PC software than there was Mac software. So the Mac system also created a virtual PC. And if you went into that mode, then it would work just like a PC and you could run PC software, right?

Tom (00:23:14):
If you were outta that mode, it would run Mac software. So they could run either of those. Whereas PCs just ran PC software. You see? So that’s what this means by a virtual machine. It’s a computer within a computer. So a big computer can off parts of its memory, parts of its processing, parts of its, you know, of, of its operating system, whatever it can, it can petition off parts. And then that acts like a little computer inside another computer. So instead of computer, let’s just say information system, cuz consciousness is an information system. So we are just a subset of this larger consciousness system. We are, we are really all one. That’s a true thing. When you hear people say, ah, we’re all one that’s really true. We are all just a piece of this larger system. And because we have free will as pieces of consciousness, we can make choices free, will choices and buy those choices.

Tom (00:24:16):
We lower our entropy. And it’s just because we’re a piece of that system that as we lower our entropy, the whole system’s entropy is lowered because we’re piece of it. So as the peace part, lower their entropy, the whole system’s entropy goes down with it. So that’s, that’s kind of how that, how that works. So yes, we’re, we make choices. If they’re good choices, that means they’re low entropy choices. That means they’re caring choices, ethical choices, moral choices. And if we do that, then the whole system prosperous and grows and evolves. So this larger consciousness system is not a supernatural system. It’s just a natural system. It’s just trying to stay alive, like all other systems within its environment. It does that by lowering it entropy and we’re pieces right of it. So that’s kind of the bigger picture of how, of what we’re here for.

Tom (00:25:18):
So that’s our purpose. Our purpose is to lower our entropy. And like I say, that is that logically can be shown to be in a social system, which all a bunch of individually pieces of consciousness create a social system. And in a social system, the way you lower entropy is by cooperation and caring and helping each other, that lowers entropy within a social system. So that’s consciousness is a social system and of individuals that are all part of the larger system. And we’re here for just that reason and our, our, our world, our earth, this virtual reality, we call the physical universe. That’s here just to give us more interesting and more growth inducing choices.

Guy (00:26:09):
Is that why we, when we are born and when we hear, we have to discover this for ourselves as opposed to Yes. Wouldn’t it be nice if like, I think sometimes God, what happens if I turned up and already knew half this stuff, my life would be so much easier, you know?

Tom (00:26:30):
Yeah. Why don’t we come with a user’s manual? Exactly. That has all this, that has all this in it. But the reason for that is the way we evolve is to, is by the choices we make. And we have to make those choices at, at the fundamentals place that we are. In other words, it has to be an authentic choice of ours that we make because we’ve grown to that level of being able to make that choice. And if you had the knowledge of how the system worked, then your intellect would get in and would start gaming the system. Oh, so I know I should act like this, so, okay. I’ll act that way. But the problem is acting and behaving really. Isn’t what it’s about. It’s about being it’s about, it’s not about acting kind. It’s about being kind and there’s a real big difference between those two.

Tom (00:27:21):
The person who’s acting kind kind may be easier to be around, but they’re not lowering their entropy much. They’re acting, it doesn’t really change who they are. And when they get into a different situation where maybe nobody’s watching or, or where they’re really pressed very hard, then all that, all that ugliness is still in there. You see, they haven’t been grown up, they’ve just behaving better. So if we knew about, you know, why we’re here and what we’re doing, we would tend to game the system by intellectually trying to be that. And then feeling like we’re very successful because our behavior kind of mirrors the way we’re supposed to be, you know? And, and, uh, that won’t help, that doesn’t help us grow up. That would just be another trap where we would, we would be nicer to each other. And I guess that would be polite, but we wouldn’t really evolve much.

Tom (00:28:17):
We wouldn’t, we wouldn’t change very much. You really have to change at the being level, not at the intellectual, it’s not about acting. It’s about being. So that’s much better if every time you start without any memory of why you’re here or what’s going on or what you did before. And you just start making choices, which reflect the real you inside. Those things you do are just an expression of you and who you are. And some people still try to act their way through life by being who they think they should be. But usually that’s very high stress. You know, that’s very, uh, you know, by the time you you’ve done that for enough years, you get kind of neurotic going down that path because you can’t ever really to be yourself. You’re always being who you think you should be. And you probably always feel that you’re never quite there.

Tom (00:29:15):
It’s, it’s not a, you know, it’s not a good route. It’s not a good, good path to take. That’s a path of stress and eventually a path of probably anger at yourself for not being good enough and other kinds of things. So we don’t wanna do that. We just wanna be authentic, just be ourselves who we are. And then we wanna look at that and say, is that good? Is that low entropy or not? And if it’s not, then we need to change it and need to change who we are. And that’s not easy changing who you are, takes some effort. It takes some real strong focus to do that. But that’s how we grow is by changing how we are. And that’s why I gave this historical example in the beginning, you know, as a, as, as a species have changed, we’re not the same people that we were in the early 18 hundreds. You know, we, we don’t have those same attitudes. We don’t make those same choices. And it’s not that we’re pretending to be better. We really are better. We’ve really grown up a lot.

Guy (00:30:20):
So there’s clearly not then cuz we, the amount of times we often try to think our way through life and think of the problems and, and feed the intellect. I’ve certainly been guilty of this. It’s like, can I read one more book? Should I listen to one more podcast? Should I do one more course? You know, and you like constantly feed in the mind, but what you and for me, I always think about the, the, the mind of the heart and, and coming back to a place of, of being. So would that be fair to say then if we truly wanna grow up that there must be an element of surrender to this then to allow ourselves to present our best self moving forward.

Tom (00:31:03):
Well, and Noman of surrender can be a path there’s, there’s really three paths toward growing up. And one of ’em is, is the path of surrender where you just say, oh, there is something bigger than me here. It’s not just me. Okay. That’s the, that’s kind of the materialist viewpoint. It’s all a big machine. I’m in the machine and it’s really me against the world. And you know, that’s not, that’s not profitable, but the surrender says, oh, there’s something bigger than me. There’s something that is beyond just me. You know, there’s something about morality and ethics. That is not just about individual behavior. It’s about who you are. You know, it’s about the quality of you as a human being. And that can be done by surrendering to this, these higher ideals or higher principles and, and just kind of live in the moment and be yourself, observe the results of your choices and the consequences of your choices.

Tom (00:32:05):
And then I to do better from, from that, you know, and that’s a good way to, to grow up. There’s another path that’s called, uh, the path of, um, good deeds. And that’s where you try to be as helpful as possible to everybody. You know, you give and, but again, you can do that intellectually, oh, I should be helpful there for all. I will. That acting kind, you know, but there’s a difference between that and being kind. So you really have to be it not just act it. And the last one is that you call the warriors path and that is where you, you, uh, kind of find your fears and get rid of them. You know, you, you, you just work on it, you put effort into it, which you use your intellect to do that. But your intellect theres is just a partner.

Tom (00:32:56):
It’s not like you need to let your intellect go. Your intellect is good. We need an intellect. You know, that’s what, uh, you know, Ables us to go home and live in a nice house with heat in the winter and cool in the summer, you know, that intellect has done a lot of wonderful things for us. So it’s not that you don’t need it. It’s just, you can’t run your entire life that way. It’s about just acting. It’s about being, you also have another part of you that is who you really are. Not just the way you act or the way you behave. It’s, it’s deeper than your behavior. It’s who you are at the core. I call that the being level, you know, it’s, it’s who you be, poor English, but it makes the point, you know, it’s the, yeah, it’s, that’s, that’s what you have to grow up.

Tom (00:33:44):
That’s where the growth is. That’s where the, the quality is. So it’s yeah, it wasn’t that those people back in the time of colonialism, uh, were, uh, you know, it’s, it’s not that they were awful people. They just hadn’t grown to the point that they thought that taking other people’s stuff, you know, was a bad idea. You know, it, uh, they just didn’t see it that way. You know, we’re big, we’re strong, we’re advanced, we’re superior and we’ll just come take you over. And then no, we’ll build you a railroad and we’ll we’ll schools and we’ll teach you to be like us. Well, that’s hugely arrogant. So that was the attitude and who they hurt and how many people they killed in the process. Well, wasn’t all that important. That was just part of the price to pay. So yeah, they, uh, you know, that’s how they were, that was at the core.

Tom (00:34:44):
Got it. That wasn’t just their intellect. That was the way those people were. So now we’re different. And I’m glad of that. I see that as a real, as a real positive thing, you know, I saw it with COVID too, when the COVID came around, there was a, there was a lot of interest in caring about other people. Oh, we, you know, there are people who are very vulnerable to this. Mostly people who are older or people who have, you know, asthma, you know, have trouble breathing to begin with or people that, that, uh, have other immune deficiency disorders and that sort of thing. And these people, if they get it, they’ll probably kill them because now they’re very high risk. And in order not to do that in order not to infect other people, then a lot of people made choices that weren’t necessarily best thing for them, you know, but it was best for the whole.

Tom (00:35:43):
So they did it, you know, they kept their distance, they wore their masks. They were careful about, you know, uh, where they socialized and how they did it. And because so many people voluntarily chose to constrain their lives in that way, basically hundreds of thousands of people now are still alive that otherwise would’ve been dead. You know, we we’ve saved hundreds of thousands of lives in doing that. And all of those lives are important. So that’s another, you know, us as grown up, whereas before, if you look at that, the another, um, as deadly, if not more deadly flu was, was, um, it called Spanish flu. I think it came around in a, in a late, uh, early 19 hundreds, like 1915 to 1920s sometime in there. And it killed lots of people, but the mask were, and the distancing, they tried that a little bit, but nobody really took it too seriously.

Tom (00:36:45):
Ah, it’s life, you know, people get diseases, people die and that’s the way it is. So mostly people just kept on keeping on and it killed whoever it killed and didn’t whoever it didn’t and people went on, they didn’t have this sense of, oh, you know, if we act differently, we can save a lot of people people’s lives. So I see that we are evolving and that’s, that’s good news because the more we evolve, the easier it’ll be to take the next step and the next step, it’s that first step. That’s really the toughest. And, and, uh, and

Guy (00:37:19):
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting, you say all that because we, I live here in Northern new south Wales in Australia, and we’ve just experienced the worst floods ever recorded here. Um, literally just suburbs across and it devastated a whole, um, town as well. And the one thing that came out of it instantly were the way the locals responded to each other. It was actually unbelievable, Tom, uh, to witness the, the, the good of humanity come together in such a way where you just had people turning up so many, they didn’t know what to do. And you eventually cuz it’s like, what can we do? What, how can we help? How can we serve others? And it was just, um, and honestly, absolutely beautiful to witness you, uh, from, from that, that was the one positive thing, you know, um, the, the, the question then logical, last question.

Guy (00:38:16):
I wanna ask you along this theme, because we’ve kind of discussed, you know, the larger reality system and then coming here with our users manual and, and contributing to, uh, the growth of ourselves, uh, or part of the system. Then as we begin to grow up and take on, um, a, a way of being that’s cooperative kind and loving and eroding fear, what happens then when we die, what happens with that information from that point? Because obviously, um, death is clearly a very big fear of, for most people as well. And it’s certainly something we all have to overcome when that happens, uh, of whatever, whatever time. So I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on that last sort of progression piece.

Tom (00:39:08):
Okay. Well, uh, the good news is that we consciousness don’t die. It’s the body that dies. It’s the avatar that dies. So what do you do when you’re playing the Sims and your Sims character dies, or I don’t know, SIM characters die very often, but let’s say world of Warcraft, you know, now that’s a game where everybody fights. So when your character dies, which it happens a whole lot, that your character, that your character dies, what do you do? Well, it’s not a problem for the consciousness playing the game, the consciousness who’s the player doesn’t die. You have to go get another character or they resuscitate the character they’ve got in some manner, depends on how the game is, is, is made. So you go get another character and you keep on playing the game. And why do you do that? Well, because the games to be interesting are complex enough that it really takes you, oh, I don’t know, probably a hundred lives before you actually really get good at playing the game.

Tom (00:40:12):
You know, you’re kind of lost in it and don’t know what you’re doing. And it takes that long. If you just played the game until you died once and it, you outta the game, sorry, can’t get back anymore. Yeah. Wow. That’s the end of it. Well, that game would, that game would never go anywhere, right? That game would never sell. Nobody would ever play it because it, it wouldn’t work anything that’s complex, anything that’s, that’s, uh, you know, significant, not just truly simple, takes a while for people to learn and to grow and to get there. So you need to cry again and again and again, and eventually you begin to evolve and grow up, you know, your skill level evolves. So you start at a level one and you go up to a level, you know, I don’t know, 30 or 40 or whatever the top levels are.

Tom (00:41:01):
And that takes experience to gain the knowledge that you have to gain, to be able to do those things. And you get more and more powerful, I think as you level up and our game works the same way here. Okay. So we, we, uh, have a lifetime. We consciousness, we play all the choices of the avatar. The consciousness makes the choices. The avatar is just a computed computed picture to help us visualize what’s what’s going on. So we are consciousness. We get a data stream just like your computer gets a or a data stream to show world of forecast, you know, the elves and the monsters and the barbarians and all the things that run around in that game and that data stream. Then the player interpret that data is displayed as pixels on a screen. And the, and the player looks at all those pixels and all they are is a million little dots of light.

Tom (00:42:01):
That’s all it is. That’s the data. And the user, the player looks at that million pixels of dots of light and says, oh, river streams, L monsters, you know, weapon and this magic. And they, they see all that stuff and it makes sense to them. Well, we’re like that we get a data stream and we interpret that data stream to be this reality, this virtual reality. So we’re consciousness, the a, the avatar doesn’t really exist. It’s just a computed thing. Just like the avatar and world of Warcraft doesn’t really exist as an independent being. It’s just there for the player to look at so that he can see what’s going on. It gives him, uh, you know, a way of understanding what’s happening in the game. So the avatar dies, the consciousness, the player doesn’t die, just the avatar, the player goes on and gets another avatar.

Tom (00:42:58):
Just like you do in the video games gets another avatar and tries again. And the name of the game is to evolve the quality of your consciousness to make good choices, to learn how to not be. So self-centered to learn to care about other people, to, uh, be more about, you know, what, what can I give rather than what can I get? What can I take? You know, it’s, it’s the opposite of that. It’s it’s what can I give and how can I help? So that’s what we’re here to, to learn. So when that avatar dies, that avatar, the consciousness that was playing that avatar immediately begins to forget that past life. And I mean, it’s just the way you, you, you need to begin to fit a dream when you, when you have a dream and you wake up instantly, as soon as you wake up, that dream’s really clear, two or three minutes later, it’s kind of fuzzy, you know, two or three hours later, you only have the big parts of it.

Tom (00:43:57):
And a day later, you don’t really remember exactly what that dream was about anymore. You know, it just kind of fades out like that. That’s the way it is when your avatar dies, that consciousness. Then instead of seeing himself as, as the avatar, he, that past experience just begins to fade I out and he finds himself aware in some other virtual reality, not this virtual reality, but a different one. I call the transition reality. And he’s aware in this transition reality, which is basically just a, a place where he can let go and decide what to do next, you know, start over, get another avatar, you know, get into the process of getting another avatar. So the way it works more technically is that you, as a consciousness are what I call an individuated unit of consciousness. And I U OOC and a to that individuated consciousness is petitioned off to something I call a free will awareness unit and a free will awareness unit is what is actually logged on to that avatar.

Tom (00:45:03):
It’s getting the data stream that describes that virtual reality that we call the physical universe. Okay. Now that, that free will awareness unit when it goes, when it attaches itself or when it gets that data stream, I should say, when it gets that data stream for that avatar, it doesn’t have any memory of the last life or the one before that, all it has is the quality of consciousness that it’s earned up to that point. So it’s been evolving all these various lifetimes, and it’s grown up, it’s making better and better choices. It’s lowering, lowering its entropy, a higher quality of consciousness. So you always start with that quality of consciousness, but you don’t start with the user manual. Like you were talking about, you don’t start with of an intellect full of information. That would just be a burden that would get in the way, uh, it’s too much information for one to process.

Tom (00:46:02):
What would you do with, uh, you know, 10,000 wives, uh, you know, 40,000 children, you know, who, you know, that sort of thing, you know, it’s, yeah. It’s not useful to do that. And besides that, we, like I said, you don’t want the intellect that would then game the system and try to act rather than be. So when that FreeWheel awareness unit gets that data stream and says, okay, now I’m an infant. Or maybe I’m still in utero. I can see lights and feel, feel things, you know, I’ve got a little awareness here. So when, when that, uh, FreeWheel awareness unit attaches, it thinks it is that thing, because it doesn’t have any past history. So as far as it knows, that’s what it is. It is the avatar, because all of its experience is only the avatars experience, whether it’s the experience of being in the womb or the experience of being born, or the experience of being a, you know, a baby or a six year old or a 10 year old and adult, all of that experience is that’s that FreeWheel or unit that’s the only experience that’s ever had.

Tom (00:47:13):
Okay. So it identifies as I am that avatar. So you see it’s a, we need that. Uh, if you had a, if you had a, uh, a user’s manual, we’d kind of get in the way of that, of that real firm identification with the avatar, and then you wouldn’t be as authentic in your choices. So anyway, so the free will awareness unit becomes aware, oh, I’m not in the old reality anymore. I just died. All right. Where am I? Well, transition reality, relax, take it easy. Everything’s okay. You know, when you’re ready, we’ll get you another avatar sort of thing goes on then. And that petition, that petition that free will awareness unit off from the individuated unit of consciousness that petition comes down. So now that free will awareness unit doesn’t exist anymore. It’s gone now, you just have the individuated unit of consciousness.

Tom (00:48:12):
And when the individuated unit of consciousness is ready to have another lifetime, it petitions another part of itself at the newer level of quality that it’s gained from that last lifetime. And that petitioned, uh, free will earn unit, goes logs on to another data stream. See, so that’s how the process goes. Now I’ve left a lot of details out, but, you know, I’ve given you the basic idea. Amazing. So that’s how that goes around and around. So we are, we are we’re imortal, we don’t die. We just keep on growing, evolving, trying to do better. And that’s, you know, and we’re in this virtual reality because our choices here help us grow because we have lots of moral, ethical, meaningful life and death, significant choices here. So that’s, uh, that’s really what, you know, what’s going on. That’s the, that’s the nature of our reality is that we are, we are in a virtual reality and consciousness is the computer consciousness is the, is the, uh, system that’s created the reality.

Tom (00:49:27):
And it didn’t, it didn’t program. The reality like world of Warcraft is programed. It let that reality evolve. It started with the initial conditions and a rule set, pushed the run button and just let those initial conditions change according to the rules. And, you know, that rule set was the ball of plasma. That’s really, you know, small volume, high pressure, high temperature, big bang kind of thing, except it, the big digital bang and you push run button. And, uh, it starts computing. What, what would happen according to the rule set, starting with those initial conditions of the ball of plasma. And we end up with this universe. So it’s a, our universe is, is not programmed. It just evolved. Yeah. From a

Guy (00:50:12):
That’s amazing. And Tom, it, um, it’s, there’s a lot to take in there, you know, and especially if, if people are hearing this for the first time, um, but I, I, I’m pretty sure most people listening to this podcast are already very open to a lot of this kind of conversation and work, which is fantastic. And, um, I just wanna touch on a couple of things before we wrap up, I’m aware of the time from my end, Tom. But, um, the next logical question would be like, is like, how do we do, like, how do we explore, cuz you’ve got exploring consciousness and larger reality. I believe you’ve got a cause. And because one thing, when you sh you, you were sharing all that, I think it, it for many people, um, we can be skeptical, which I’ve heard you say is, is healthy to be skeptical, but, but keep your mind open. And, um, would you be able to touch on that? And you’ve also created Tom’s park as well, which I’m, I’m intrigued about. And I’m assuming both are designed to help you start to have a deeper understanding with this work.

Tom (00:51:18):
They, they are exactly, uh, you know, I’m, I’m one of the I’m very few, if not the only, uh, person at the end of my talks, I tell everybody not to believe a word I just said, so don’t believe a word I’ve told you because it’s not useful to believe it. You have to experience it. You know, it’s not, you know, it’s just not all that helpful to believe something or to disbelieve something you have to experience. It has. If it’s not your experience, it’s not truth. It’s somebody else’s truth. You have to have experience. So when I tell people that, then they ask me, they say, well, if I’m going to experience this larger consciousness system and have my own personal experience, how do I do that? So I figured that was fair. If I tell them to go experience it on their own, I guess I should try to help them do that.

Tom (00:52:10):
So I put together a course where I teach people to get around and experience the larger consciousness system so that they can do all the things that consciousness can do. So basically that is, I teach them to when they want to and how they want to experience paranormal things they can do out of body, you know, explore consciousness from the, from the inside one consciousness can go out and explore the larger consciousness system. They can, they can remote view, get information, they can get information outta the databases. They can CR our, as all those things that we think of as paranormal are just normal to the intuitive side of consciousness, but they’re only on the intuitive side. Okay. They’re they do not happen on the intellectual side. Your connection to consciousness is through the intuitive side. So in our, we tend to really develop that intellectual side a lot.

Tom (00:53:16):
You know, we go to school. Yeah. You know, read books, go to college, go to graduate school. We work and work and work to develop that intellectual side, but we don’t do anything much to develop that intuitive side and exploring the larger reality has to all be on the intuitive side at the being level, not at the intellectual level. All right. So I have to teach people how to do that. And I have this course, and this course is now available. Uh, do it yourself course. It just came out recently. I used to give it, we’d go someplace. You know, we’d rent a hotel someplace really nice and we’d have, you know, a hundred people or so. And they’d, you know, I’d run ’em through exercises and then we’d talk about it and I’d run ’em through exercises. And I made videos of all of those.

Tom (00:54:05):
And we went through all of those videos and captured all the best questions and all the best answers and all the best ways of helping people and put ’em together into this one course. So this course has me talking and it has, you know, a other people asking questions. You don’t get to ask the question yourself because you buy it as a package, but the questions have been taken over, I don’t know, 30 or 40 different classes where they pick out the best questions. So the questions are, are very likely gonna be your questions too. You know, the same questions that you would, that you would have if you took the course. So that’s one product that you can get. And the whole course is there. And there’s a set of B beats to help people who aren’t very good at meditating to get into a, a meditation state so they can get more out of it.

Tom (00:54:59):
So they can, they can work on that intuitive side and develop their intuitive side. And, you know, when you develop your intuitive side, it’s not only good for, for doing consciousness things, but it’s also good for being creative, you know, for coming up with, with better ideas. Uh, you know, if you, if you’re a creative person, like a writer or a painter or somebody who creates, or even an engineer who creates new things, you know, new device and, or a scientist who creates new experiments and new ways of understanding things, you know, there’s creativity everywhere. And if you live your life in a way that, uh, being creative, appreciation of art, appreciation of architecture, appreciation of music, all of that, you can only appreciate it. If you also are creative, if you’re not creative at all, then you really don’t appreciate those things. You know, you just, they’re just there and you may, you may learn, oh, that’s nice.

Tom (00:56:00):
Or that’s not so nice. And I like this, but I don’t like that. But in order to appreciate creative art, you have to have a creative herself to really experience the, the feeling and what’s going on, what the artist is trying to to do. So you’re better at business. You’re, you’re better at relationship. You’re better at everything. If you have a well developed, intuitive side and you can explore a larger conscious system, you can learn how to remote view, use your mind to heal. You can heal other people and I’ll teach in that course how that works, why it works, you know, what are the principles involved, not just how to do it, but what’s the science of it. You know, what’s the, what’s the structure of it. So that’s what this course is. And it’s, it, it takes a person probably three or four or five days to do it.

Tom (00:56:54):
If they just keep doing it and doing it. But since it’s a do it on your own time, you could do it over a month or two months, if you want to it’s and you can do it as many times as, as you want. It’s a, it’s an audio book product. It’s all amazing. It’s all done in audio. So the only thing you’ll miss from being at that course that may have cost, you know, $2,000 to go to the course because we have a venue to pay for and meals and all the rest of that. Uh, you know, you get to do it at home. I don’t think it costs very much. I don’t remember exactly what it is, but it doesn’t cost very much. And that, uh, you know, for what it, for what it gives you. And the other thing Tom’s park, that is a book that I’ve written, but it’s not just a book like to read, you know, read a story or read, get some information.

Tom (00:57:44):
And it’s a, it is a training course, really for you, for people who had trouble in the first course who had trouble keeping their intellect out of their intuitive business. You know, when you’re doing things with your intuitive sides, your intellect crashes, and then the whole thing disappear years, because those are two different ways of processing. And if the intellectual way of processing gets into an intuitive thing, it just crashes it. You know, you can’t, you can’t force the intuition. You have to let that happen. You don’t intellectually logically get information. Information just comes to you. It’s beyond logic on the intuitive side. So the logical side gets in and it crashes it. And people who live their whole life out of their heads, out of their intellects sometimes have a really hard time letting that intellect go so that they can go outta body and heal what their mind and, you know, get information about whatever they want.

Tom (00:58:47):
So, because I’ve had given those courses many, many, many times, and there was a group of people who just never really seemed to get very far because of that dominant intellect. I created Tom’s park, which is a way for those people to develop their intuitive side. It’s a, it’s a, uh, it’s a way that starts with your imagination. You begin imagining things. And I create a park and lots of things to imagine there, you know, lots of things in the park and the book just kind of describes how it works, what you’re supposed to do, what you’re not supposed to do, you know, and then describes the park and with the idea is, and the way I’ve set it up is that you get into an imaginative story, like a daydream. See it is like daydreaming. And the story eventually gets interesting enough that it begins to take on a life of itself.

Tom (00:59:47):
And most people who have day, if you’ve daydreamed very much, you know, that typically is what happened. You start to daydream and it’s all intellectual. You know, if there’s, you’re talking to somebody you’re playing both parts, but eventually as you get into it, you kind forget about creating it. And it starts to just go on its own. Things just happen and you’re interacting with them. So you get to a transition where the daydream turns into an outta body because the larger consciousness system is working with me with this. And it will give you a data stream that plays perfect with your daydream connects right to it, exactly what you’re doing. It, you know, matches the storyline perfectly. So you can start with a daydream and end up in and outta body. And that just the whole process relaxes your intellect to the point that it can let go and let the intuition do its thing.

Tom (01:00:47):
Now it’s not something you do once in bingo. You know, you’re done. It’s something that you work at. It’s an iterative process. So you may have to do it 20, 30, 50, a hundred times before you get to the point that you can just go there and, oh, you can go right into the right into the intuitive side and use your intent to do whatever you want, whether you want to heal or travel or remote view or, or whatever. So it’ll take a while to do that, but it’s a way that you can learn to do it. And really all you need to do is be able to imagine just even a little bit, because the more you can imagine, and the more, the more complex that imagination gets, like you not only imagine what you see and what you hear, but what you smell and what you taste and what you feel.

Tom (01:01:38):
Imagine in all, in all your senses, all five senses. Well, that gets your, your mind so busy that it doesn’t really have much room for that intellect to butt in. So you need to really get something that’s interesting that you connect to that, you know, resonates with you, not just counting sheep, jumping over a, you know, jumping over a fence. You know, it has to be something that, that, that you connect with and have some experience with. And then eventually, even if you’re very hard intellectual eventually, and on your 20th or 30th time, you will have done it so often that it becomes so easy that you tend to relax with it. And as you relax with it, you let go. And as you let go, you know, your imagination just turned into an outta body. And I have lots of things in this park that helps you heal yourself.

Tom (01:02:32):
And others helps you deal with fear. I’ve got things in there that, uh, you know, will help you, uh, do a, all the paranormal things, you know, the outer body, the, the, uh, getting data, whatever. So there’s tools in there that use to do that. So it’s just a fun place. And it’s not just you that are there, but it’s a park. There’s people there. It’s got a lot of staff and you’ll meet other people that may just happen to be in the park at that time. And, and I suspect that most people will make pretty good friends with people there. These you’ll see these people over and over again. You’ll, you’ll get to know them, you’ll have relationship with them. So there’s a lot of learning, even in personal relationship that you can get in this park. So it’s not just about imagining situations and stuff.

Tom (01:03:22):
It’s also interactive with people. So you go there and you’d like, you know, there’s restaurants there. You know, there’s, there’s a lake there, there’s a beach there’s woods, there’s mountains, there’s hiking trails, there’s horses. And, but you can ride, there’s lots of animals and different things. And the whole thing is put together in a way that it is always positive, always safe. There’s nothing in Tom’s part that, uh, is, will ever harm you. And if there’s anything negative there, it’s because you bring it in yourself, you bring it with you. That’s the only way negativity can get there. So, uh, that’s, Tom’s park, it’s a, it’s a tool to help people, particularly Westerners like us. You know, I’m a physicist and I’m not sure what you do for a living guy, but, uh, you know, most of us use our, our intellects a lot in our jobs.

Tom (01:04:17):
That’s what that’s, that’s what we do. And we are so used to using that intellect as a tool that it becomes very difficult for us to let go of it, which is why people have a hard time learning to go outta body or learning, to use their mind, to heal others. You know, it’s, it’s that intellect keeps wanting to jump in and organize and run things and judge and analyze and, and do all that stuff we normally do. And as soon as that intellect jumps in there, well, the whole process is gone. You can’t do paranormal things from the intellect that only can be done in the intuitive space. And the point is eventually to get that intuition so well developed that your, that your intuitive side becomes just as accurate, just as repeatable, just as, uh, reliable as your intellectual side. And actually if you work at it long enough, it’ll get better.

Tom (01:05:16):
Your intuition will actually get better, more reliable and more accurate than your intellect because your intellect never really has enough data to be truly logical. But the intuitive side has all the data, you know, that it, you know, that that’s available. It has much more data than your intellect has. So eventually your intuitive side actually gets a lot smarter than your intellectual side right now. It’s the other, most people, their intellect side is smart. Their intuitive side is kind of goofy. You know, it sometimes works sometimes doesn’ts, you can’t really believe it, uh, kind of thing, but you can, you can develop it to where it’s very accurate and very reliable.

Guy (01:05:58):
Fantastic, Tom, that takes time. That’s fantastic. I’ll, I’ll make sure, um, the links are in the show notes for both of those. So people, if they’re watching a YouTube video, listening to our iTunes or on my blog, they can just literally pose and the links will be below for, to go and check out those, those, um, amazing courses in Tom’s park, which I will do as well, Tom. And I’ll, I’ll keep you posted on how I go. It it’s phenomenal. What, um, you and, and, um, and your team have been doing to, to bring this forward for people. And, um, I’m just happy to be able to share it with everyone today, Tom, you know, I just want to, um, yeah.

Tom (01:06:37):
Yeah. The one other thing I, I, uh, the, one of the thing guy I tell your audience is that, uh, almost every course I’ve ever given like a lecture or whatever is on YouTube for free. They’re all free now, the Toms park, and this course, they’re both things you have to buy, but there’s tons and tons of free things out there actually more than a thousand hours worth, or the videos, you know, that are, that are out there, but there’s a search tool now that you can search by subject if you want. And you can get that in my, at my website. Um, so lots of places you can, you can go, actually, the books are for free too. On, uh, Google books. You can look them up, I put them there to,

Guy (01:07:17):
And your website to campbell.com. Would that be

Tom (01:07:24):
No, it’s, uh, www.my hyphen big hyphen toe.

Guy (01:07:29):
Yeah. We’re willing to that as well.

Tom (01:07:31):
Big toe with hyphens.com. And if, yeah, and if you want to know where I might be doing an event or giving something, uh, you know, giving a course or something, you can get that@wwwdotmbtevents.com, that’s Keith and Donna, and they, they’re kind of my event manager. So you can, and you can buy by an, a beats there and at my place, you know, at my website and whatever. So anyway, that’s how you can get in touch with us. And we have lots of free,

Guy (01:08:02):
Tom. I just thank you for your time. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for that. Your wisdom as always, I, every time I speak to Tom I’m, I’m always captivated. You knowWe and learn something. So I’m just grateful that, um, for everything that you do coming on here, sharing it, being able to share it with others here in Australia. Um, it certainly appreciated you. So thank you, Tom.

Tom (01:08:29):
Well, you’re, you’re welcome guy. And, uh, I appreciate you inviting me. You give me another audience to speak to.