Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Guy (00:11):
Oh, all right. Beautiful. Round two. We are starting again, the podcast technical difficulties and, uh, Matt, welcome back. Thanks for being here.

Matt (00:21):
Thanks, mate.

Guy (00:23):
We, uh, should have recorded this podcast even last week, uh, on the way. And we even contemplated in the car as we were drawing from Sydney to Canberra. Um, but the whole day blew out and we wanted to make sure we have a good mic and good volume and good all that kind of stuff. So, uh, we postponed it till a week later after our Canberra and Sydney events. And as always, we have many conversations in the car and we wanted to discuss cuz something that keeps coming up is around men and spirituality and leaning into the heart. Cuz clearly what were the numbers you just said? There was, we had about 140 people over the boat combined over the weekend. Mm-hmm and probably 11, 10 men at best 11.

Matt (01:07):
It depends on if you count us or not. It’s questionable sometimes.

Guy (01:15):
Exactly. And uh, one of the questions that came up was why are there so little men, um, stepping into that room and the work?

Matt (01:27):
Mm. And I think she also framed it as what caught me was, uh, when she posed that question, she said, um, you know, there’s a lot of men out there that could really benefit from this, but they’re not here. And she says, you know, what advice do you have for men based on your journey to, you know, to find this work, to find in essence, find their hearts, I think. And, um, and that really spoke to me because, you know, we, we speak to that as well. And it’s a very common, uh, number , uh, we’re, we’re all very well aware of the fact that under 40, the leading cause of death for men is, um, is suicide. Um, and that’s just shocking. So, um, and I think it stems a lot from just this, you know, the, like the work that we do is finding our true selves is coming back into alignment with our authentic self.

Matt (02:20):
And what’s true for us. And I think what, what, what societies tends to do, or what we tend to adhere to through society is this disconnect from our true desires and our truth of who we are and what we are supposed to be, whether it’s a role that we play through being a father or a partner or a career mind person, or, or what have you. And, and a lot of times it’s at the detriment of what is true to us, what is true for our hearts. And I think over time that starts to chip away at a, a foundation that we have as a, as being human and how we meet the world that ultimately can lead to a tragic end.

Guy (03:08):
Um, yeah,

Guy (03:11):
It, it is interesting though, but it is a generalization in some respects at the same time, isn’t it? Because you could pull apart and look at the state of the world full stop and like, you know, look at the chronic disease rates. Right. And, you know, I think it’s like 70%. I can’t remember if it’s Americans Australias are over 70% of people are overweight now. Right. And that’s become a very normal, which is, I believe is symptom of education and a symptom of society and, and the convenience of everything in some respects, but the disconnect, you know, uh, so it’s, I think you could throw a dart, whether it be throw it at men, throw at women, throw it at the health crisis, throw it up politics. And it’s like, it is almost like everything is breaking down to a degree and, and we all could benefit from this work no matter which I biasly see it as, um, as well, but it is, it does concern me when I do look at that and think, wow, it would be great to have more men in the room that are actually connecting to their hearts and, or ready to allow themselves to be more vulnerable, to step into an environment because it’s such the, the, the challenge is, is the perception of, from the outside looking into this world is a very warped perception to what I think is actually where the rubber meets the road and what this work is all about.

Guy (04:44):
I think we could all have that biased lens and it’s not until we start from that point. And then it’s like, well, what is the language? How, how do we then bridge that gap? So this becomes a very normalized part of our society. I feel that we can openly have conversations about and be able to openly speak about emotions and be able to openly express ourselves without being judged, shut down, or slammed or ridiculed, or feel de as a man emasculated in some way. Or you think you are, you know,

Matt (05:24):
You covered a lot of ground there, man. I think you’re exactly right. Cause I, I, I struggle with the generalization of, of that as well. And the, and the misconceptions of this work being, you know, fluffy and maybe just like a luxury of, of, of first world country, which in some respects it is, you know, we don’t have to, um, put all of our energy into surviving and, you know, we, we’ve got the luxury of actually being able to sit in a room quietly and not, you know, have threats coming at us , which is what a lot of countries do have. I think of Michael Beckwith actually leaned into that. And, um, and the way that he framed it is that it’s actually our responsibility then because we have such blessings in our lives from our, you know, demographic where we’re at in the world that we hold that space for, for everybody to, to come to that space and the world to come into a more peaceful place, um, as we’ve come into more peace with ourselves.

Matt (06:22):
Um, but I digress the, um, the, the idea then that it’s, um, if fluffy Duffy and airy fairy stuff I think is, is a misconception and then it’s, um, not, it it’s a weakness almost from a male point of view to lean into this work, um, as a generalized way of framing it. And it’s quite interesting because from my background coming from middle America, uh, in growing up in the eighties, um, early nineties to be a sensitive, introspective, shy, even man, it was, uh, our boy was, it was not, was frowned upon. It was, was not really okay. And, um, you know, I, I say in the workshops how it was my humor, that then was my strategy to, to cope with, um, you know, that dynamic and, and all the that I would get. Um, and, and over time, I think, you know, in many ways, and I judge myself as weak as, as, um, not, not as masculine as I need to be as, um, there’s something wrong with me.

Matt (07:33):
You know, all these types of things would, would come forward for me. And it wasn’t until I really started to have to cope with what was going on in my heart because of the death of my mom, that I started then to, um, have to deal with emotion. I, I couldn’t, I couldn’t live with all the grief that I was feeling. And so I had to actually move into that and understand that. And in that understanding than it gave me a greater understanding of who I actually was as a person and, and how I feel, how I interpret things, how I, how sensitive I am, you know, all this type of stuff and that, as I lent into that vulnerable place, I realized the strength that I never would’ve found if I adhered to the conditioning that I grew up with. And that to me, I think is the gap in that there’s a, you know, men being the framed as a provider as have to, you know, support the family, be there as a career, you know, orientated person and driven, and you know, all this striving for goals and competition and this kind of stuff is a completely different dynamic, um, from surrendering and allowing and dropping into the heart.

Matt (08:52):
And they almost are contraindicated for each other. They clash in that you have to kind of shelf that whole concept, which I was forced to shelf it because of what I was experiencing and start to build a relationship with a different part of yourself that is soft is sensitive, is surrendering is allowing, which ultimately allows a greater wisdom, a greater inspiration through us. And to me, that’s the feminine side of myself, which also is something I think that we disidentify with is that we both have masculine and feminine traits and aspects within us. And that we are moving as a society is more in balance with both male and female qualities within us, whether we’re in a male body or a female body, or we identify as some other gender or, you know, cross pollination of a gender, you know, it’s like, it doesn’t really matter.

Matt (09:43):
There’s, there’s a vastness to being human that needs to be embraced within each one of us. And I think as we do that individually, then the paradigm will start to shift. And the, the separation between men and women would start to dis it, which it is in a way from the different, um, minorities speaking up as to gender, um, bias and whatnot. So, um, yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s a slow moving process, but to, to, to continue. And, and I, and I also think, um, that neither, any anyone that we all feel to the same depth, whether we’re male or female or whatever we are, and that there’s, there’s a feeling and a sensitivity and a, and a compassion and a love that is felt across the board. And there needs to be space for that to emerge, which I don’t feel that that space is often given to men, especially at the pace that we function.

Matt (10:48):
And we process information. I use the, the analogy of like, it almost like women have this capacity within them to fire, like a machine kind of emotion and expression off. It’s like, you know, and then we’re sitting there as men and we have this, you know, 1915 shotgun, you know, that you, you have to put the, uh, all the, the ammo in it and pack it down and, you know, get it ready and then cock it. And then, and then we fire off and that’s, that’s how we then express ourselves. Whereas we’re just showered with a array of, um, expression, um, that women have that capacity to do. And I think it’s almost frustrating then for them to wait for us to load the gun of expression and then to process it, aim it and get it out there. Um, totally necessary.

Guy (11:46):
Yeah. It’s like, can you gimme three days, honey, I just need to process that and I’ll be, I’ll come back, you know,

Matt (11:51):
But it’s just as deep and it’s just as expressive and full of course. Um, and we find that in the retreats, don’t we, when we have that space for the men to actually share that depth, and I think that it always catches me by surprise at how, how taken aback the women in the room are that these men are sharing from such a depth of heart and a depth of emotion. Um, and I think many didn’t think it was air.

Guy (12:19):
It was quite funny because it, um, quite often as well, and I was, I, I can put my hand up to this with me being one of them as well, but you can, you can just sort of fumble your way and find yourself into this work. Not really like, not chasing anything cause you, you’re more worried about what, what the fuck you do in there in the first place, cuz you’re a man, you know, this is not, not. And then you can have the most mind bending, mystical, blow, blow, blown away experience that like lights you up like a Christmas tree and we see it and you come out just going, oh I get it now. Like, you know, wow. Now I get it. Now I, I understand the not, it’s not only the head, but the heart as well. And that journey back into that.

Guy (13:04):
And, and you know, quite often the women will go chasing that experience and then it doesn’t happen. as well in some respects, you know, and I certainly know that was my experience and, and the environment I was in at the time, you know, which I find fascinating. But as you were sharing all that, I was thinking about, you know, how do we bridge that gap that, that missing void for the male to be able to accept that, that other aspect, that other quality you could say, the feminine energy I look at as the heart. And I think about the, the Zack Bush, um, when he was speaking about the, he did a shamanic ceremony and he had this vision of a bird that was flying on, uh, one wing and the, the wings being a male and female energy that was creating a hole of the bird because it was only flying on one wing, uh, this very masculine energy as a society, we were spinning in circles.

Guy (14:09):
And that then leads into this, this analytical mind, this thinking, mind this, almost this push and you see it in society. Like we are, we are advancing quicker than ever before, but there’s, you know, there’s something that just doesn’t feel right about it all in my view, like there’s elements that are really breaking down and it’s because we’ve kind of lent into this masculine. I mean, you only have to look at all the people in power and the politicians and everything. It’s this very male driven energy. And then it’s about how do we then expand that other wing out so we can all fly forward and make progress. And, and that’s how I look at it for ourselves. You know, growing up in Wales, I can assure you, you know, as I stepped into my teens, it was all about, um, the only way I could step up as a man was how much I could drink with my mates to hold my, my sense of identity.

Guy (15:09):
And there was a very, uh, physical roughness can I say around, um, being able to, uh, fit in, fit in and working on a building site. And, um, but even then I could feel something was off, but I had no how idea, how to get back to that feeling within that felt made me feel complete again whole. And I always say it was like pulling a splinter outta my soul. There was something so deep. I couldn’t put words on, I couldn’t, I couldn’t express it. I had no mentors around me that that kind of held both qualities with figure and that strength and be able to hold themselves strong. You know, cause to this day I still enjoy physicality. I have to throw some things around the gym and grunt and grown and jump in a nice bath and you know, but then there’s, there’s the other aspect that I really have to nurture now.

Guy (16:09):
And I feel like I’m feeding, um, both aspects of myself in the right way that, that makes me feel fed at a deeper level. That allows me to express myself much more from the heart and not really give a shit anymore. What other people think of me or, or where there, as long, as long as I know my intent is honorable. And, um, I’m ex able to allow that aspect of myself, to express yourself fully as well and feel into that. Um, life has become so much more richer. And I really feel like in society right now, there are more examples of people starting to, to come into this and that we can turn to. But you know, it’s, it’s challenging. Like when you think of social media and anyone can put themselves out there, anyone can be an influencer, you can get bombarded by news. There’s still this constant way of how you are expected to be. And we kind of buy into it as opposed to just like turn it off for a while and put ourselves around people that are leading by example that resonate with you at a deeper level and is having the courage then to lean into that, uh, without, uh, worrying about the tall poppy syndrome or people just trying to chop you down so they can feel safe and not disrupted. And they are, um,

Guy (17:36):
Space if you like as well.

Matt (17:41):
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that’s, that’s that all stems from then embracing and understanding ourselves at a deeper level like that. When I, when I started to understand both sides of myself and all of, you know, the totality of who I am and start to expand into that and accept myself more, then that ridicule cool in that judgment, um, subsided. And it just didn’t really matter. I don’t really care what other people think so much anymore. And, um, I mean, you see what, see what I do for, for work. the, the sounds that I make if I cared what somebody thought about, the shit that came outta my mouth, um, I wouldn’t be able to do what I do. Um, cuz it’s weird. Um,

Guy (18:33):
But it’s, but it’s not, is it it’s not, unless I’m just hearing you too much mate, like

Matt (18:39):
you drank the Koolaid too mate. You’re you’re down the rabbit hole. Um, no, but it’s not, you know exactly right. And that that’s just a conditioned judgment, uh, of it at the end of the day. And I, I think, you know, it’s, it’s true to say that our biggest critic is ourselves. Um, and massively, you know, the more, more we are kind to ourselves, the more the world becomes kind to us. Um, and yeah, and I can, I can relate to men as well, like to oftentimes I just need to just get away from everything. I just need to get away from all humans and all of life. And it’s like, just feel this overwhelming kind of heaviness upon me, you know, whereas being a parent, being in a relationship, um, the career, you know, building the business, whatever, sometimes it just gets to be too much and it’s like, what is the actual point to it all?

Matt (19:35):
And it’s just, I could feel that despair and that hopelessness and it’s that ability that I have nurtured over time. Cuz I remember I, I did, I was a computer programmer for a while in Los Angeles and um, and I used to work up into the, um, the, the Hills of um, uh, just north of uh, north of LA and um, and I was had the capacity to get out of the cubicle for lunch and go up to a lookout point and look back over the smog of LA in the city when I was in nature and I could play my guitar and I could just relax in the, you know, the animals would come up and the birds would circle and, and it was just this moment of just like, oh, like there was a spaciousness and an interconnectedness to that time that allowed me to, to kind of exhale, you know, in myself.

Matt (20:31):
And that then just kind of took the lid off of that pressure cooker that I had sitting in the cubicle trying to make something of my life mm-hmm and um, all the pressures and demands of the work. And um, I think at that time it’s like, oh, I gotta, you know, find a partner, get married, you know, have kids like, you know, all the normal worries and concerns of our, of our lives in, you know, late twenties, early thirties. And um, yeah, and I think that’s a, a critical thing to, to realize is, is, are you creating space in your life? Are you creating a space for something greater to move? Are you creating space to take the pressure off of yourself? Um, because I think a lot of ways that we cope in our society is to drink or, um, you know, all the destructive kind of Netflix or the, the, the destructive things.

Matt (21:21):
But it’s just more information, the more, um, toxic toxicity coming in, which just compounds on itself. Um, I mean drinking was a huge thing for me, uh, cuz not only was it something that was accepted and something that you do like you, you lean to, how much can you drink? But what I didn’t realize is it’s a depressant and I was dealing with depression and drinking. This compounded that. And for me, when things really started to shift is when I started to get my head around my biochemistry, the foods I’m putting in the sugars, the caffeines, the alcohol mm-hmm , you know, all these things were actually then just pushing me over into more and more depressive states on top of the pressure was in my life. And so yeah, I think a critical thing men or anyone in, in life is, are, are you creating healthy, spacious moments? Are you taking time out to actually decompress? And, and I think, yeah, in, in that then you’ll start to find practices and ways that this greater force can start to come through and, and, and yeah,

Guy (22:36):
Absolutely. I think it it’s, that’s critical and another, and for me looking back over time, I always remember, um, Tony Robbins, I, I saw him back in 2006 or seven, five, I think it was gosh, 15, maybe even more years ago. And um, and he shared the story. He’s very charismatic on stage. Like he shares an incredible story. Um, and, but he spoke about, um, proximity and he said if, if, if ever he had to why he’s achieved so much in all that, like, cuz he’s obviously keen on personal development in all areas of a life, you know? And, and there’s a man that I think can hold so much power and strength and captivate an audience and be strong and when needed. But also he’s not afraid to like cry in a, in a, in a heap on stage either. You know, he’s very connected to his motions and when you watch him, it’s, it’s quite remarkable, but he always spoke about proximity and the proximity being power.

Guy (23:43):
And if you are willing to, to start to look at the way people are leading by example and have a resonance with that, then start to find ways to place yourself in that you start having different conversations. You start being aspired by different people in different ways. And over time it has to rub off. You’re either gonna resort back to your old way or you’re actually gonna go, you know what? I want more of this and start breaking away from the old patents into the new, I I’ve personally on a biased level. I think that’s why the retreat is phenomenal because you can pull people out of that environment out their day to day away from everything that’s reminding them of who they think they are. Mm. And you, you’re placed in a space where you really start to dive in and, and the reality is people come for many different reasons, but we’re all coming for the same thing.

Guy (24:44):
Mm. And that’s, you know, to, to really find ourselves again at some deeper level and, and embody that aspect and continue to allow life to flow through us as opposed to resisting all the time. And I know that I’ve made a conscious effort over the years because I STR I, you know, I had suffered a, quite a long way of feeling depressed really. I mean, I probably would’ve been diagnosed if I had gone to see about it. Um, and it was then finding ways to infiltrate my years to infiltrate myself and, and bit by bit, I was able to then start to connect deeper to myself and look at other ways of approaching life. It’s not just the way that, you know, mainstream wants us to, um, fall in line to there. There’s, it’s not just the only way to skin a can. And until you’re willing, um, I guess be open. We don’t know it all. What’s the for humility, right? Mm mm-hmm. actually start to beginner’s mind start to go. You know what, like the more I look back on myself, when I used to think I knew it all, fuck what it like, what, what was I thinking? Like it just, you know, we know nothing. Yeah.

Guy (26:11):
And that’s where true courage lies, you know? And surrender. You mentioned that at the beginning. Yep. I think it’s, it’s the ultimate act of courage without a doubt, I think.

Matt (26:28):
Yeah. It’s it is surrender. Not, not, not giving up. Like I think surrender can be

Guy (26:33):
Oh, far from that.

Matt (26:35):
No, it’s, it’s not that kind of

Guy (26:36):
Gimme a beer white

Matt (26:37):
Flag I’m I’m done. No, no. no,

Guy (26:41):
But

Matt (26:43):
The surrender as to letting go a trust and allowing

Guy (26:51):
Yeah. Yeah.

Guy (26:54):
And then that’s an initiation. And I know we we’ve touched on that before and it’s, it’s having these key moments in your life that you, you almost step through step through that fire step through that initiation to step into the next aspect of ourselves. As we, as we grow and growth only comes from discomfort. And if we start to be with the discomfort, honor the discomfort and give yourself space, like you said, for the discomfort, then from that place, we can, whatever will start to want to reveal itself for us will in time, we just can’t muscle our way through it.

Matt (27:36):
Mm-hmm

Guy (27:38):
Like, we kind of used to

Matt (27:40):
Yeah.

Guy (27:41):
You know?

Matt (27:42):
No, absolutely.

Guy (27:43):
Same as the ice bath.

Matt (27:44):
yeah, yeah. No,

Guy (27:47):
But it is like, I I’ve taken many people through the ice bath. And the first thing I did when I got in there, you know, um, many years ago was muscle my way through. Yeah. And it, it was brutal. And then, then I understood what surrender, you know, it’s like relax into it, breath into it, let it go. We stop fighting that, that talk. And then you, you, you get through mm-hmm, , I’ve seen many, a grown man, um, try muscle in their way through. Yeah. Nothing puts a bigger smile on my face.

Matt (28:18):
Cause they’re just gonna, it’s just gonna exhaust them to the point they have to, he’s gonna crush. Yeah. That’s it. I just like Brent comes to mind as you were talking, you know, like he’s in the retreat, he comes out the end of that retreat and he says, you know, that’s he he’s, he was a boxer, uh, one point in his life, a police officer and a boxer and like, you know, a really tough guy, really big man. And um, yeah, he said, that’s the tough, that’s the toughest 12 rounds I’ve ever gone through in my life was that retreat and the experiences of having to surrender and, and what and whatnot. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And then I also think about, um, what was the guy’s name that was just at the retreat with his partner. And he was explaining how the, the toughest thing that happened to him was when his partner had cancer.

Matt (29:04):
Um, and, and, you know, being a man that was horrific for him because you couldn’t fix it. And, um, and in that he learned surrender and trust and how to be there for her in a different capacity. And I think the whole room was cry. I’m choking up. Just, just talking about it now. I think the, the whole room was just crying about that, cuz it’s such a deep truth of, um, you know, what, what any human wants to do really is to, is to help others. And, and when we just can’t, we realize at the depth of it all at the end where, eh, we’re all gonna die and there’s, there’s no way to stop that. We actually don’t have much control at the end of it. We can’t really fix everything, but we can be there and we can love, and we can support each other through a deep, empathetic, empathetic sense of trust and surrender.

Guy (30:00):
Yeah, absolutely. Mm. Yeah. It’s powerful stuff. Mm. So if we had to cap this podcast today for everyone, and if, um, there are men listening to this right now that I think is shit, man. You know, I, I wanna lean into this a bit more. Um, I’m just thinking like three things. Let’s, let’s recap. So three things that we, you could look at to start honoring yourself to nurture that aspect, cuz you’re not gonna muscle your way through it. You can’t drive your way through it. Like

Matt (30:37):
No,

Guy (30:37):
You know what I mean?

Matt (30:39):
Um, yeah, no,

Guy (30:43):
You know, and even I remember even mark divine who’s um, you know, he is a Navy seal seal. Yeah. Like he, I’m an incredible man, like, and he now trains, I think he now goes back to the seals and, and gives input on how to handle yourself under pressure. But he’s huge on meditation and he’s huge on actually connection to the heart and connection to something far greater than this. And he always said, the greatest warriors in the world are the last people to draw their sword. They’re not reactive. They don’t muscle their way through things. They actually keep themselves in such a present place that they explore all avenues first before pulling, pulling this trigger. You know? And I quite often think about that. It’s like, am I seeing this? What perspective am I seeing? This is this just my male egoic side, just jumping in and just wanting to, you know, shove its way through and not actually address. What’s sitting beneath the surface, wanting to, uh, to reveal itself for me to learn more about myself and an aspect of myself that wouldn’t have revealed itself. If I wasn’t willing to sit with the discomfort in the first place.

Matt (31:57):
Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Guy (31:59):
Which comes back. So’s huge.

Matt (32:03):
Now I,

Guy (32:03):
So I guess the footnotes would be, um, what you said is giving yourself space, right?

Matt (32:09):
Yeah. Give yourself space. Um,

Matt (32:16):
That’s, that’s the critic, that’s the crux of it really. Can you give yourself space? What, what would happen if you stopped and let yourself feel? Um, you know what, I think building a relationship with the heart, like that’s gonna sound so foreign to people. Um but, but it’s like, if you, if I think the thing is like, if you feel, if, as a man, like you’re feeling alone, you feel like you have so much weight on your shoulders that you have to do it all that you, you just can’t cope. Come hang out with us for a minute. You know, there’s, there’s, there’s support beyond what you can imagine when you let go. And there’s, there’s far greater potential to manifest those dreams, to be successful through the wisdom of the heart and it’s there, it’s available. And it, you know, any, any man out there that kind of scoffs at this, like, I dare you. I dare you to come and spend a day with this mate. you couldn’t handle it or you can’t handle the meditation.

Guy (33:23):
Come and yeah. Come and spend a week with us. That’s it seriously, that’s it. And if you, and if you’re scared, ask yourself why, what, what aspect of that bit is worried to step into it? Like what is, where do you think’s gonna happen? You know, which leads into the other aspect that was huge for me was, was proximity was how you

Matt (33:43):
Surround

Guy (33:43):
Yourself with was putting myself around people that were ready to lift me up as opposed to put me down, to keep me in my place. Cuz it made them feel better unconsciously. Most of the time

Matt (33:57):
It’s massive

Guy (33:58):
And it’s huge. And I realized how much of myself I had lost because, uh, I was a pleaser unconsciously just trying to keep the peace within everything and everyone, you know, and in that, um, I’d lost myself. So once I started stepping, knowing that all your power lies within, beyond in the heart at the end of the day, it’s the crux of all. It’s not metaphorical. It’s not some nice wishy washy like terminology. It is, you can feel it it’s, it’s a very visceral sensory experience. And once that those newer pathways are connected from the head to the heart, like there’s a there’s that freeway starts opening up and the traffic starts moving freely between the two like look out. Yeah. That’s that’s when, um, that’s when things get really interesting

Matt (34:59):
Magic happens.

Guy (35:02):
Mm-hmm any last words before we wrap this up

Matt (35:06):
May? Well, I think my intention for putting this out there and having this conversation, cuz it’s something we kind of shied away from over time. Um, mm-hmm is to just, if it, if it could help somebody out there, some man out there that’s just on the edge. Um, then I hope it does. And I, and I, um, my, my, my hearts is open to anybody out there. Um, and you share this around to anybody you think would need it because, um, some lonely struggling people out there that could really use some of this work. So

Guy (35:39):
Yeah, a hundred percent amen to that. Thank you. Thank you all for listening. Thanks. Right. Uh, hopefully we will meet you in one day in person soon. Um, if you do wanna check out where we are moving around, up and down the east coast and moving into 20 we’re even booking out 20, 23 now. Geez. Playing

Matt (35:59):
It into Europe, mate

Guy (36:01):
Europe. Um, yeah, we we’re currently in the middle of a, um, uh, quite a promotion within Europe actually. So living flow is, is gaining some incredible momentum in Europe. So we’re excited to get over there next year. And so lots happening. Just come back to living flow.com, sign up to email and you can stay up to date and uh, yeah, hopefully we’ll meet you in person one day soon as you dive in further. Thanks, legend. See you soon. Thanks everyone.