Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Guy (00:00):
Hey, beautiful souls. My awesome guest today is Robert Gilbert. He has a very popular, uh, TV show on Gaia, which I highly recommend, uh, getting into. He also is, uh, an authority on sacred geometry and also teaches bio geometry, which I am personally very passionate about, which is all this stuff right here, what I’m actually wearing around my necklace. I’ve had I Abraham Karim on the show, the founder of BioD Geometry, and also his daughter, uh, Doria. And today I wanted to get Robert Gilbert on to discuss sacred geometry, BioD geometry, the, the, the mechanics of the universe, essentially. He is a beautiful soul. He’s the real deal. He’s I highly intelligent and boy, you’re gonna get a lot out of this show today. I just love being in his presence and being able to spend some time with him today. If you do enjoy these conversations, of course, please hit the like button, the love hot button, the subscribe button, any button that’s gonna support us getting these shows out you, cuz without you, the listeners, these conversations don’t reach people. And that is, this is certainly my passion project on top of all the retreats and workshops and everything we do here around the world with live and flow. Anyway, much luck from me, enjoy this conversation with Robert. It’s awesome.

Guy (01:20):
Robert, welcome to the podcast.

Robert (01:22):
Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me.

Guy (01:25):
I, you know, interestingly enough, when, when I was exposed to bio geometry about two and a half, three years ago, I started doing a Google search and I found your work back then and um, and I think you were doing a lecture in Perth, if I remember. I I, it was like an old, um, YouTube video <laugh> that’ve been up and, and that’s where the seed first planted. And obviously as I’ve explored the work more and your names kept popping up and, and I’ve been exploring your work more and more and I have to say, um, incredible. Now the reason why I ask this question is cuz I’m itching to see how you answer it, is that if somebody that’s traveling a lot, and let’s say you’re on an airplane and a stranger sits next to you and asks you what you did for a living, how would you answer that <laugh>?

Robert (02:12):
Well, it is, it is a challenging question for me to answer in a few words because the, the work we do at the Vestige Institute is fairly multifaceted, but for me it all comes down to studying and summarizing key information and practices related to consciousness and related to human energy. So it’s all about how do we develop our consciousness further? How do we develop our own energy field further? And this involves studying the deep information from multiple traditions all over the world and doing our best to summarize it into clear, concise overviews that people can make functional in their own lives in the shortest period of time, really to empower people with information about these deeper topics that really affect the core of our development and whether we use our lives for the best outcome or we’re just, you know, wasting our time.

Guy (03:07):
Yeah, I wasn’t even aware of consciousness, I think growing up in some respects, you know, and hadn’t even contemplated the question being a welshman growing up in the valleys of Wales <laugh>. And how would you define consciousness then? Because one thing I’ve been fascinated with on my own journey, Robert, is that why are we so removed from the fact that we’re this multi-faceted, multi-dimensional being, yet we so enriched in the physical and there’s a disconnect? Well, we’re not hearing it, you know,

Robert (03:48):
It, it’s such a great question and it’s been so fundamental for human beings throughout history. You find it deeply embedded in many spiritual traditions. So it, it really comes down to how is it that we are in a mortal spiritual being, uh, with amnesia in a physical body, in a physical world, and you know, what is it all about and how can we know those answers through direct experience and not necessarily having to believe it from somebody’s external story that’s run through their own filters. So one of the things that you find, both in personal experience and in the teachings of some of the greatest traditions in the world, people that have already walked this path and already found many answers, is that there is a process here of spiritual education. And so in the ancient world, they discuss the process where a human being as a spiritual being, living in higher nonphysical realms is put into a physical body.

Robert (04:44):
In the physical world. We’re given a particular pathway where we are given spiritual amnesia. And so this particular challenge is something that many traditions talk about because for many people, as they begin to wake up in life, we’re given a particular definition of who we are and what our potential is and what our essence is by our society around us or whatever religion we’re, we’re brought up in. And then as we begin to become more conscious and develop our awareness further, start to ask questions, start to explore things more deeply, we get to the point that we start to say, well, maybe I’m not as defined by my religion or my society around me. Maybe I’m more than that. And so some ancient traditions referred to this challenge that were all given, it’s a initiation trial to be given amnesia and put into a helpless little infant’s body in the physical world to go through this educational process.

Robert (05:49):
They refer to this as the draft of forgetfulness. And so the draft of forgetfulness is the classical understanding of the process through which when we incarnate our memory of who we are as a much greater multi-dimensional being is stripped away from us. And part of this is an initiation challenge of which there are many in human life that part of your challenge is to remember who you are. We’re gonna take everything away from you, you’ll be a naked, helpless infant, uh, in a world that does not give you a true definition of who you are. And you have to remember and reclaim who you are. It’s kind of like the old myths of let’s say a God or a goddess like Anana, where she travels through seven levels of the underworld, has everything stripped from her, and finally at the lowest level she’s hung on a meat hook naked and everything’s been taken from her.

Robert (06:43):
And then she has to wake up and go back up through the seven levels, get herself off the meat hook, and then reclaim all of her powers as she ascends back up to the original point. But now is a fully conscious, empowered being. So again, this is one of the deepest questions that every spiritual tradition talks about, and they may have slightly different answers, but the core of it is it’s really a hero’s journey as you know, Joseph Campbell would talk about for every one of us, to have the courage to incarnate into the physical world and to have to from that state of amnesia and not given true definitions or true information by the world around us in many cases, to reclaim our knowledge of who we are, reclaim our potential, and find a pathway that works to become more conscious, to develop our energy system to a higher level so that the true purpose of human incarnation can come to fruition, which is really that of our spiritual evolution here in the physical world.

Robert (07:44):
It’s like a brightly colored kindergarten for young spiritual beings to become more conscious and more aware. And so that’s really what I feel is the process we’re we’re going through. People can find a variety of, of answers for what their own path will be, but this is really the foundation. It’s a very profound thing when you meditate on that process of being this much greater expanded being and then coming down into, uh, the physical body and that that helplessness, it’s a tremendous act of, of courage. And then that whole process of reclaiming our powers as we go, we really need to get a type of spiritual excitement about it because the more that we can have the spiritual wind in our sails, then not only the easier this whole initiation trial of developing to a higher level is, but also the much more enjoyable it is. Yeah, I mean, we realize what the nature of this whole process is.

Guy (08:37):
Yeah, I love it. Uh, the wind in our sails. Isn’t that the truth? Gosh,

Robert (08:41):
<laugh>.

Guy (08:42):
So I, I’m fascinated as well because I was listening to a YouTube video of yours and you know, Robert, you have this habit of explaining something that if I listen to it five times, I get something different out of it five times. I don’t know how you do it, but it’s, it’s in there. And you spoke about the, the evolution of consciousness and, and almost that there’s a, a almost a duality going on or a polarity where you have to get entrenched in the physical so much to become so separate from source to a degree to then, is that actually part of the soul’s evolution to then start to make our way home during this incarnation?

Robert (09:24):
I absolutely feel it is. It’s really that whole thing about we go from unity to polarity and that living in a world of polarity as we do here today, we’re no longer unified with the one, with the godhead, with all other beings, that we are at the divine plain level, we’re completely separate being, and that can lead to all types of psychological and emotional challenges in this world. So when we realize how separate and in a sense alone we are, we’re never truly alone. But in our experience here, we really can feel that in a very deep and sometimes painful, painful way. There’s a, a wonderful way of describing this in the European Rosa Crucian tradition, and particularly with the work of Rudolph Steiner where he talks about that all the higher spiritual beings ranks above us have gone through a process of becoming self-aware in previous stages of spiritual evolution.

Robert (10:16):
And now they’re above us in particular levels in the west we might call them angels, arc, angels archive, et cetera. But in a sense, we are the next rank of spiritual beings to become self-aware. We’re going through the self-awareness consciousness development process right now. And so all these higher beings have particular esoteric names for what their powers are, so their spirits of wisdom and their spirits of motion and these types of things, spirits of time. But for us, our esoteric name according to the European rosicrucians is that we are spirits of love and freedom. And that’s a real duality that we have to master in our lifetime. Love is the constant yearning that we have to unite with another being that’s our romantic journey where we want to become one with another being no longer be alone and return to that state that we came from, where we unify with another being or even with the Godhead at the divine plain level and realize we are one part of an ocean of cosmic beingness.

Robert (11:25):
So that’s the love part that moves us to unify with other beings. But the other part of it is the freedom and that’s just as important and equal in significance, a gift for us to be able to have free will. And so there’s almost a rhythm here of unifying with other beings and love, but also being able to be separate and to choose our own path in freedom. And so we often find that our relationships with our family, with our significant other, these kinds of things are some of the greatest teachers in our lives. How do we find the right balance between the love and unity and our freedom and choosing our own path? Uh, it’s always highly dynamic. There’s no one static answer to it. We have to make it a living art form every day for how we we engage with this. But I think this idea that we have to balance love and freedom, and that’s what everything here is for. Teaching us how to do that in a sometimes a school of hard knocks, I think is really one of the most important understandings we can have about why we’re here and what this is about.

Guy (12:33):
Wow. Yes. And it’s interesting you say that because when I, I was only pondering on my values the other day, and it is always love and freedom are the two strongest values that I <laugh> I value in life. So everything you just said resonated, uh, fully. I, I’m, I’m interested, Robert, what about your own journey? Was there a moment, were you removed from this, these kind of ideas or have you, did you grow up with these ideas in your life? Was it a, a dark night or the soul for you? Or was there a tipping point to go, I really need to go in a different direction?

Robert (13:08):
Well, I appreciate the question. Uh, for me, I was lucky that I grew up in a family that was not highly suppressive of free thought. You know, as a, a family that encouraged, you could study any tradition, you could study anything and you didn’t have to like subscribe to one belief system. So that was a great help growing up. So I’d always had a great interest in things about who are we, why are we here, type of things. And then as I began to follow my internal polls toward different things, different experiences, different paths in life, I always kind of kept this in the background. So like for example, when I was uh, 20, I joined the US Marine Corps and became an instructor in nuclear biological chemical warfare defense. And, but was a part of that one reason I joined the Marine Corps specifically is cuz they had bases by the ocean, which I love, but they also had a lot of bases in Japan.

Robert (14:01):
And I wanted to be exposed to Japanese culture because I knew there was something in the subtlety of Japanese culture, Japanese spirituality that I needed to be exposed to. So whoever I went, whatever I did, I was looking for something that would fill in some of these blanks at the, the deeper core level. And after I left the Marine Corps, I had an experience where I had no idea it was the summer solstice. I just wasn’t clued into that level at that time. But, uh, on the summer solstice I happened to be watching at the time a video of the old David Lynch version of the movie Dune. And there’s a, a part of that movie where Lynch, who is like a, a Buddhist meditation practitioner, he has an image of like the darkness of space and then he has a, an image of an illuminated hand coming out of space.

Robert (14:52):
And then the word sleeper must awaken. And that’s what awakens the protagonist Paula Tradies in that particular movie. But when that happened, and it was like a, a trigger to see that illuminated hand outta black space in the word sleeper must awaken. I felt something open up in the center of my head like a flower. And I was only barely even aware of the concepts of chakras and lotus flowers and these types of things at that time. But it opened up and I began to have a spontaneous awareness of non-physical world’s realities beings around us. You know, it’s interesting that Rudolph Steiner refers to the process of spiritual clairvoyance as a kind of controlled psychosis. And so it is a very challenging thing to open up our consciousness to nonphysical realms and not have it be very destabilizing. I think probably our mental institutions are full of people that had failed spiritual initiations and now they’re just full of, they can’t control all kinds of fantasma gok input.

Robert (15:55):
Uh, but for that particular evening, from that trigger, I began to perceive all these things and it was very significant for me. And then when the morning came, I realized this was gonna change my life and I needed to make sense of what my experiences were. So then I began to go out and really devote my time and energy to examining these deeper teachings about who we are, why we’re here, and what is this whole matrix that we’re living in. Wow. From multiple traditions. And again, the one that spoke to me the most when I was trying to make sense of my specific experiences was the work of Rudolph Steiner and the European Rosa Crucian, but also deeply drawn to the knowledge of ancient Egypt and the ASCE and the Greek tradition and the Indian and Chinese DAAs tradition. There’s so much wisdom that’s been spread around the world and this kinda led me to my interest in sacred geometry because sacred geometry, the way that I teach it to people is it’s really the science of patterns.

Robert (16:55):
So if you want to be able to integrate wisdom from a lot of different traditions, a lot of different directions, we really need to be able to see a pattern in the information. Cuz different traditions may refer to the same process that we’re undergoing through very different language and from slightly different perspectives. But if we can see the larger pattern, we can see how all these different traditions have a very important take on what these core aspects of our life need to be and how we develop consciousness and energy to further levels. So I did have, um, as a summary, I did have a, a type of awakening experience, but that was in a matrix of a, a background interest that I’d had for a long time. And the more I began to go into the subject, I was very fortunate that while I worked on my PhD in international studies, I was doing all this other research on the side and, uh, was able over time to meet all kinds of remarkable people.

Robert (17:49):
Wow. Including I, I lived for a year at the Clear Vision School of Australia, uh, and learned from Dr. Samuel Sagan and Sydney Australia. At that time, that was in the late nineties, I was able to connect with Dr. Ibraham Kareem, the founder of Bio Geometry. And I’ve been working with him as my teacher in bio geometry for over 20 years. And I was incredibly fortunate that after I kept coming to everything he was teaching and took a stenographic notes for everything he ever said to like compile it all together, he invited me to be the first instructor outside of Egypt for bio geometry, which I’ve now been doing for 20 years. And so it’s been a really beautiful, remarkable path. I really find that when we open up to this type of spiritual calling and remembering who we are, that it really is a huge change of life and our life falls into the time before that and the time after that as we’re really consciously striving for awakening.

Robert (18:45):
There’s a beautiful saying in the Rose Crucian tradition, which is in the beginning was the memory. And so I definitely experienced that, that as you’re starting out in the very beginning of recovering from the draft of forgetfulness, our spiritual amnesia, remembering who we are, that in the beginning is the memory, remember who we are. And there’s always challenges on this because you see many people fall prey to the classic initiation challenge of ego inflation. So as soon as you start to remember there are certain types of spiritual beings well known in ancient traditions that will come in and give you all types of false information about who you are trying to puff up your ego. Like, oh yes, you’re very special and you’re the great so-and-so and you had all these amazing past incarnations and maybe you did, but even if you did have incredible past incarnations known to history, taking that for some type of fluffing of your ego is the, is the wrong trajectory.

Robert (19:40):
It should really give us a sense if that’s the case of a type of responsibility, that if we’ve been granted that type of important past incarnations, we have to put that to the service of the world in the current lifetime. So people often get these, these puffed up illusory senses of I was this incredible person and I’m like this incredibly important person now, but have you ever take it as like you’re any more significant than any person around you, then you’ve fallen into one of the traps or the challenges of that particular initiation. You gotta stay humble and it’s easy to do when you really see clearly what our true state of development is right now versus what it hopefully will be further on in our path of development.

Guy (20:22):
Wow. You, you’ve, you’ve covered so much ground there and even on the last note, we, we can fall into the trap of, um, looking for spiritual experiences to avoid the very things we need to address in our life.

Robert (20:34):
<laugh>. Exactly. I

Guy (20:36):
I we get hooked on those things. You know, it’s, we’re funny beings aren’t we? <laugh>?

Robert (20:41):
Um,

Guy (20:43):
Gosh, I, I, I want, can you, I just wanna take it back to your awakening moment if that’s okay for a moment. Before we, we started going to the sacred geometry and BioD geometry because should people, like I find it fascinating that you had that experience and, and you had the awareness and the ability to just navigate that and, and then move on with your life and explore and, and yet like you, you speak then of other people that you’re sure they’re having awakenings but haven’t been able to integrate it and they could be in a mental institute right now as we speak, you know, which can conjure up fear or divine love depending on where you’re, you’re listening, what perspective you’re listening to it from. What, what do you feel is needed to to, to allow us to lean into this work and not fear it, but embrace it and, and be able to work with the dealings of an awakening?

Robert (21:40):
Yes.

Guy (21:40):
When I find the words,

Robert (21:41):
No, that’s a, that, that’s a great question. And for me, what it it really comes down to is, well, what else are you going to do? I mean, if you’re not going to engage with the core issues of physical incarnation and who am I? Why am I here, what did I incarnate to do in this lifetime that I need to remember and make sure I do it before I pass through the gate of death? Then it becomes from that perspective pretty obvious. If I’m just wasting my time doing what society tells me I should be doing or who I should be, that’s a pretty empty path. And if you, if you have any consciousness about it, you’ll take a look at people that did follow that path, never tried to wake up just at what society told them and where are they in the hospice at the end of their life?

Robert (22:26):
Did they have a fully, uh, maximal optimization life or at the end, do they have all these regrets? And the answer is they have all these regrets. So, you know, in, in, uh, the classical world, they always talked about what became known in Europe as memento Mori, remember that you will die. So one of the great, uh, questions of human life, one of the great mysteries is how come everybody knows we’re going to die, but everybody lives like they’re gonna, they act like they’re gonna live forever and we’re not. We’re here for a very short period of time. And so, you know, this is kind of the difference between what the Buddhists calls skillful action or unskillful action. We can just follow our subconscious tendencies and sleepwalk through life until we come to our inevitable doom or we can wake the hell up and make sure that we make our life into a work of art where we’re actually using that lifetime to develop ourselves to a higher level with consciousness and energy.

Robert (23:27):
And sometimes this is one aspect of what people refer to as the pearl of great price, that we are actually forming quite literally subtle geometry structures in our own energy body. And that’s the only thing you take with you through the gate of death. I mean, if you believe that death is permanent and final and there is no spirit and this is all just some biochemical accident or being in a physical body here, then yeah, I guess you’re going to just do whatever. But if you have any sense of a greater significance to our lives, then it really comes down to the whole issue of we have to, in the beginning was the memory. Who am I? Why am I here, what did I choose to do in this incarnation? And there’s a tremendous amount of energy and divine power that’s waiting for us when we engage fully with those questions.

Robert (24:20):
Always staying on guard against ego inflation. Cuz on the one hand we can think we’re nothing, we’re speck of dust in the cosmos, we’re just going to be a, a bag of flesh and bones that will rot when we die. But on the other side, it’s like, no, I’m the greatest spiritual master ever lived. And look at me and always like the Tibetans talk about there’s a middle path and that middle pathway is the one that’s going to lead us to something significant because we really are here to learn lessons. We’re here to wake up, we’re here to develop ourselves to the point that we don’t need to incarnate in a physical body anymore to be able to live in the cosmos as a fully conscious being. But until we get to that level and we should never overestimate how far along we are right now until we get to that level, we need the gift of incarnating in a physical body to be fully conscious through the vehicle of a physical body and the use of the five senses.

Robert (25:12):
This is an incredible gift that many spiritual beings worked and suffered for, for eons of time to create this physical world and our physical body to give us this opportunity. So again, going back to the original question, it really comes down to me is, if you’re not going to do this, what are you spending your life on? Many people just say, well I just wanna be happy. Well that’s great, that’s better to be happy than to be miserable. But you know, there’s a difference between a type of short term, uh, pleasure and a long-term joy. And in some cases it might be better to focus on the investment in the long-term joy, remembering that we will die, which could happen at any time. We never know when it is. And have we developed within ourselves the fruits of the lifetime in the development of our conscious development of our energy.

Robert (26:02):
Because every thought we ever have, every emotion we ever generate, which can be completely reactionary with a reactive mind or something, we consciously generate. Every one of those structures are subtle bodies into a particular form. And again, that’s all you take with you through the gate of death is the structure of these subtle bodies. What makes you you that, uh, the pattern of the snowflake where, you know, all snowflakes are crystallized water, but they all have a completely different pattern. Every human being is crystallized spirit, but we all have a completely different pattern based on how we’ve used our mind and our heart and our will and our action in this world. And at that point, people start to wake up to that there is life beyond death. They wake up to the fact that every spiritual tradition throughout history, until very recently and even today, the vast majority of humanity believes in reincarnation. That, you know, many people will be on this path, begin to remember who they are if they don’t fall prey to the ego inflation. And you know, I was all of these great spiritual masters that maybe you weren’t. So it really comes down to if we don’t do this, what are we going to do? We can just try to be happy. But in the end, what does that, what does that take you to when you’re crossing the gate of death? Then you’re facing the true issue of what was my life about. Mm-hmm.

Guy (27:20):
Yeah. Did you then transition out of the Marine Corps into teaching this work? Was it a smooth transition or was it a po a point? Because people, I, I see it all the time cause I’m in front of probably at least 150 people a month, naro, but uh, uh, a fortnight, actually not a month. So it’s 300 people a month. Right. And one of the, the biggest nagging things I can see a feel within people or they share is that they, they’ve, they’re outta crossroads in their life. They’re in their forties or their fifties. They’ve been, they’ve been down this path. They’ve, they’ve given it their heart and soul and, and there’s something, it’s just not, you know, there’s something deeper waking up and they’re like, but they’re clinging on to the old side because it’s so terrifying. The thought of letting that go of my infrastructure to go in this direction and follow my heart, you know? Did you have that moment when you lent in more to this work? Or was it just gradually moving across?

Robert (28:16):
To be honest, I think for me it was always the case that this was always in the background. I always had a sense of it. I always had a sense of these deeper questions and how essential they were. And it, it really felt like my life had very little meaning without engaging with this. But then once I had my real awakening experience and it became much more experiential, like, oh yes, we are a nonphysical being from nonphysical world to nonphysical world surround us all the time. They’re not like somewhere out there. Nonphysical worlds are around us all the time. We’re like fish and water that don’t know we’re in water and the water is the physical nonphysical worlds that we’re surrounded by. So once I had that, uh, that awakening experience, the most important thing in my life became studying this. And so that became something side by side to the other things I was doing in the world.

Robert (29:06):
So from that time forward, that’s when I started working on my PhD in international studies. And that lasted 12 years to get to the point I’d finished my dissertation and, and things I kind of ran that, rode that train until it ran outta tracks. Uh, but it was fantastic cuz I loved that whole environment and college and that sort of thing. But at the same time I was working on that degree, I was really doing tremendous amounts of study in these other areas. So I wasn’t really teaching anything except I would hold groups of friends, groups were friends who were with me in college for us to like just explore these things and different practices together. But then once I got the degree I, I knew that what I needed to do was really almost nothing to do with my degree. It was all these things I developed up until then of understanding these greater aspects of essential teachings and practices of spiritual science.

Robert (30:00):
And so one of the courses I offer on my website today is called Essential Teachings and Practices of Spiritual Science. Cuz when I first began to teach, it was all based on how we develop consciousness. And so that’s what I refer to as the spiritual science side. And then I began to segue into teaching how to develop the human energy body. And that became the side of vibrational science or what I refer to today with my work assr Subtle Energy Explorations and Research. Because what you find is that consciousness and energy are the two sides of the coin that Shiva and Shakti for the hoal tradition, Shiva’s ultimate consciousness, Shakti is ultimate energy. Shiva’s male, shakti is female, the two opposite polarities. So to develop your consciousness to the higher level, you have to have a healthy body and a strong energy to pull upon to be able to feed the consciousness.

Robert (30:58):
Otherwise it’s like the top of a pyramid without a stable base. But also to develop the energy system to the highest level, you have to have a highly awakened consciousness because energy follows attention. Wherever you put your attention, your energy follows. And so these are two essential parts. You really can’t do one without the other. You need to work on developing your energy body and understanding your energy field and also at the same time develop consciousness. And so it was at that time that I finished the degree that I began to do the 12 years of research, uh, put it into a practical form that I could then teach people in workshops. And then of course as the internet came on and we got internet resources and I could teach things online, that just was an incredible blessing to get information all over the world.

Guy (31:49):
Wow. So where does sacred geometry fit in and bio geometry? Because even for the LA like you hear them both and are they the same? Are they different? Like what’s happening and Yeah. God, there’s so many questions. It’s almost like I just tossling in and let you go because <laugh>, even even with sacred geometry, I, I’m fascinated how that that was a unified language for all the, the sort of ancient traditions and and religions and cultures that you, you searched as well and, and that was like, uh, the map if you like. I dunno if you used with the map, but

Robert (32:26):
So ex

Guy (32:27):
Explain. Yeah. <laugh>.

Robert (32:29):
Okay. Yeah. So sacred geometry is the kind of general overarching term that we use today in metaphysics for all the patterns behind these patterns are often able to be represented through geometric forms. And so this actually works really well for us today because we’re a highly visual culture. So to be able to express packed information, information with all types of different, uh, aspects to it through a core image that has embedded in it, a tremendous amount of content and information is something that works really well for people today. And it’s been done in esoteric traditions for thousands and thousands of years. So you find all these particular types of sacred geometry images from, from classical traditions that have a deeper meaning for the people initiated in whatever the temples were of that tradition. And then it might be understood at a much simpler level by the, the laypeople, but it’s possible to use images and visuals to be able to convey very deep information.

Robert (33:38):
So one idea is that the Freemasons from medieval times made the cathedrals in Europe as books written in stone. So embedded in the designs of the cathedrals is a huge amount of esoteric information. Now also there’s the aspect of sacred geometry, which is the actual energy patterns behind everything in physical manifestation. Because to manifest something into physical reality, you first have to create a particular pattern in energy and that becomes then the blueprint through which the crystallization process of that energy pattern into physical matter will actually happen. And so that’s true for example, with the human physical body. It’s based on an energy blueprint and the physical matter just fills in the energy pattern. And in general we could say the sacred geometry is the study of patterns, uh, whether it’s of the actual patterns behind physical manifestation cuz there’s a pattern behind every chemical in the periodic table, behind every stone on the earth, behind every organ in the human body, everything has a pattern.

Robert (34:45):
When it loses the core pattern, that’s when illness sets in. If you can restore the core pattern, then you have what we think of as health because that’s the proper functioning. Any distortion in the pattern creates problems for whatever the system is. The stone will fall apart, the house will fall apart, your mind will fall apart, your organs will fall apart. Yet the pattern doesn’t hold its particular integrity. But understanding sacred geometry is a study of patterns. It can be applied to anything from constructing physical matter, which is what we do with nanotechnology today. We’re constructing matter molecule by molecule using sacred geometry. That’s what nanotechnology is. Or we can use it for understanding the patterns behind developing our consciousness, developing our energy field, really any aspect of life. So it’s a, an absolutely fascinating field. I just recently released a 18 episode series on Gaia tv on sacred geometry where I do my best to introduce people to like what this this field really is and how remarkable it is and all the things it can apply to bringing in things that they can make experiential, such as in the ancient world when they taught that you could create a particular pattern in your energy body like what was known as the symbol of life in ancient Egypt and then became known as the tree of life in the Jewish capitalistic tradition, if you actually through using your consciousness and energy to construct that pattern in your energy body, it actually already exists, but through applying your attention to it, you start to crystallize it more quickly.

Robert (36:16):
It has all kinds of very beneficial aspects to our spiritual development and even changes our spiritual destiny and our spiritual future. So that’s the sacred geometry side. It’s like the grand study of all these patterns and that can be applied to virtually anything gigantic field. Bio geometry is the specific body of work developed by my friend and teacher, Dr. Ibraham Kareem from Cairo, Egypt. And so Dr. Kareem is an architect and a absolutely brilliant natural scientist. And so what he did is he looked at what is the energetic basis behind all living beings. Now he had studied aspects of the ancient Egyptian sciences, what was taught in the ancient Egyptian temples. He has a very interesting background there where he was trained by people like the person that ran the museum of Ancient Egyptian Medicine. So he already had some background with us, but he also then found a body of work that was developed by French researchers in the early 19 hundreds.

Robert (37:24):
And what the French researchers did is just as we have the periodic table of elements in science today to identify every aspect of physical matter that exists, the, what the French did is they asked the question of what’s above the electromagnetic spectrum and above the spectrum of physical matter, the periodic table for what in classical traditions is referred to as life energy in modern science and medicine, they say life energy doesn’t exist. That’s just a fantasy. It’s nothing but mechanical biochemical processes. It’s all electromagnetic or physical, there’s nothing else. But every classical tradition, including every classical healing tradition is based on the level above the electromagnetic and physical, which might be called Chik ether. Different names and different traditions. So they actually created a system through which they could detect and differentiate the qualities of energy at this higher dynamic life force level. The energies that are too subtle to be picked up by electromagnetic equipment because our electromagnetic detectors can pick up electromagnetic energy around us, but they cannot pick up life energy in a reliable way.

Robert (38:38):
And so they created a system, uh, partly based on ancient Egyptian temple knowledge and techniques to be able to detect all these energies. Dr. Kareem was introduced to this from some people in his circles in Egypt and he realized this was a master key to being able to rediscover the ancient mysteries and to create a new form of them that we could apply today for practical work. Cuz as an architect he needs to be able to design buildings that operate like a living being that have energetic effects on living beings that are highly beneficial. And the French had broken that open, broken open the doorway to the ancient Egyptian mysteries and all types of knowledge around the ancient world and br bring that into a modern context. Now what the French said is they identified all these different qualities of energy that create different functions in living beings, including human beings.

Robert (39:30):
But there’s another aspect that they left out that Dr. Kareem knew had to be brought in. And that is the energy of the center. All these other energies with dynamic life energy are a yin young type of energies. Some activate, some sedate, some are more in the warming side or more cooling side. They’re opposite polarities that allow us to move dynamically between conditions for living beings cuz living beings are highly dynamic systems. But in the middle of all of that, in the center of all of that always is a particular divine energy quality that harmonizes and balances all living energy fields for all living beings. That was not included in the French work, but Dr. Kareem knew that this was absolutely essential. So he identified the quality of energy that harmonizes and balances all energy for all living beings. And so his system, while building on the French research, brought in something they didn’t have, which is the understanding of this unified field energy, this core unity energy before it splits into duality.

Robert (40:42):
There’s no opposite to this energy that’s, this is the energy of the, one of the godhead of the divine plain of the singularity in physics, whatever you call it in your tradition. That’s the state of the oneness where everything is together and everything’s balanced before it splits into duality. Things have to split into duality to create evolution, to create motion, to create dynamic activities. But there’s that state of the one where everything is harmonized. So amazingly Dr. Kareem was able to create a practical energetic system that anyone could learn to be able to detect this particular harmonized energy of the center and to be able to create it in any location on the earth to be able to balance homes, offices for people to, to use this to help balance the energy in their own energy field. All kinds of amazing things. So sacred geometry is this larger multi tradition understanding of the patterns behind creation. And bio geometry is the specific body of work coming from my teacher in Egypt, Dr I Abraham Kareem. That has to do with what he calls nature’s design language and sometimes will define bio geometry as nature’s design language of shape, sound, color, motion number, angle, proportion, et cetera. It is the, the dynamic mc

Robert (42:12):
Qualities that all life is based on. And what’s really unique in his work is that he’s able to focus on that, that energy of the center, the universal harmonizing balancing force to which he’s been able to do things in various studies around the world that seem miraculous. Like being able to grow plants with salt water in a project on the Red Sea or many, many other things that I talk about in courses and other internet videos about things he’s done with projects showing that when you tap into that energy of the center, which is in every human being, which in every shock or every acupuncture point, it’s in the earth around us, it’s what we refer to as power spots. So all of the energy centers and the human being are nothing but a microcosm of the power spots in the, the world around us. So everything has these access points, these transcendental gateways beyond space and time to this universal harmonizing energy. And so although it wasn’t the matter that Dr. Kareem was given information in some like hidden Egyptian lodge or something like here’s the old secrets, he was able to rediscover those secrets through this new science. And so I’ve been so blessed for the last, uh, 20 years to be wow allowed to teach this work to people cuz it really is life altering and quite mind blowing.

Guy (43:30):
It’s fascinating. And it’s funny enough, I’ve got his, his book sitting here, hidden reality that and um, making my way through it. And so look, a question I have for you then with that and is that divine quality? And I’m assuming, um, it’s BG three if I’m, if I’m not mistaken that

Robert (43:49):
That’s right. He goes to BG three.

Guy (43:51):
Yeah. Refers to it as then if we are looking to, as part of our own spiritual evolution and, and growth, we are working on stand to bring, um, you, you use the term spirituality and, and vibrational science as well and we’re looking to evolve those in us. Then one thing that highlighted to me through bio geometry is that we don’t look at our environment and where we are placing ourselves in and how that’s affecting our own biological energy systems. So it kind of makes it, I always think of a plant, if you’re not putting a plant in the right, how is it gonna grow? So we can spend a lot of time working on ourselves, but then we are not actually supporting ourselves to the best of our capabilities. Would that be fair to say?

Robert (44:40):
Absolutely. It really is, uh, a matter of just becoming conscious of what already exists as the basis of all, all energy and life force in the world around us. So just as we tap into aspects of the mechanics of creation through modern science and technology, we’re really tapping into the essence of the life force that makes things alive through, through bio geometry. And once we understand that science, we can begin to understand what they did in ancient Egypt, what they did in ancient China, what they did in India, what they did in Greece, et cetera, to a much, much higher level.

Guy (45:21):
Yeah. Well, and if anyone wants to dive in more with bio geometry, I’ve also had, uh, Dr. Brum Kuman and his daughter on, on the podcast as well. So knock yourself out. It’s fascinating. I mean, to the point where we reached out and we now distribute bio geometry here in Australia,

Robert (45:35):
Like, wonderful.

Guy (45:36):
It’s, yes, it’s an incredible journey actually for them. And, and I wanna raise something before we wrap up the podcast, Robert, because we kind of slipped straight past it was your Gaia series. So first of all, congratulations, I was blown away by the, the depth and level of the production Thank you in that show. It is phenomenal and it’s worth subscribing to guys just to check that out. And I, I just wanna touch on then the power of visualization because there’s a lot of visualization of shape in there and intention behind that is that what we are doing is that what is creating the, the, the changes within us. Because sometimes even asking people to visualize something with their eyes closed can feel foreign at first. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, why, why would I visualize, why, why have I gotta bring an a a clear intention behind something? But I’d love you to break that down a little bit more because as you build through the series, there’s a, there’s a constant, um, development of visualization and techniques that, that are broken down within that, based upon the sacred geometry.

Robert (46:44):
Thank you. So there’s uh, something really important that I go into detail on in what’s the first of my courses in spiritual science that I have online. The one I mentioned called essential teachings and Practices of spiritual science. Yeah. One of the things that I, I make clear for people there, which is not clear in modern metaphysics very well and I give ’em the fundamental practices for, is that there’s actually two fundamental types of meditation. Now we could say that there’s thousands of different types of meditation cause it’s all different ways to use mind power and there’s a lot of different ways you could do that. But there’s two core aspects of it just as we split from the one into the two, into a world of polarity that we live in today. So in meditation there are two opposite equal polarized aspects of developing the mind power.

Robert (47:36):
Now in the west what we focus on is visualization, creative visualization and using the mind power to be able to create thought forms. So in a materialistic way, we create the thought form to then take action to materialize it into, to reality through different actions we would take, like we create a blueprint through our mind power, we create a blueprint, then we physically construct it, esoterically, we can use the mind power through visualization and the creation of thought forms to actually change systems inside of our mind, inside of our, our body, our energy field, even things around us in the world. And so that’s one side of the equation, the use of mind power to create thought forms. One part of which today refer to as creative visualization. So that’s the act of the yong side of the equation. In the east they focus on the opposite equal complimentary part of the equation.

Robert (48:35):
And that is the development of receptive meditation. And that is things like zen and vipasana and these different methods, uh, like transcendental meditation in which we create a clear mind state. And that’s absolutely essential. So instead of having all the monkey mind chatter that’s going through our heads all the time, we clear it out to have the clear mind state. And then when we can truly perceive what’s directly in front of us, whether it’s perceiving people and events around us in our physical lives without projecting a bunch of ideas about it outward so that we can actually see what’s the person really is, what the event or opportunity really is, which really outside of us or whether it’s done in a spiritual level at a higher level, so that we can actually perceive non-physical worlds non-physical beings as they actually are, rather than our projections outward about them. Anytime we start generating thought forums about things external to us, we’re gonna start warping the reality through our projections. So we have to learn how to not project to be able to do, have any type of true spiritual perception, whether it’s in people in front of us or nonphysical beings and worlds. And so again, in the east, they tend to focus on the receptive west tend to focus on the active.

Robert (50:04):
And so it’s through developing both that we develop things to their highest level. Just like we don’t go forward just hopping on the right foot or the left foot, there’s a left foot and in the right foot and with breathing, we don’t just breathe in or out, but where there’s a rhythm between breathing in and breathing out. Same thing is true here in consciousness to perceive or it really exists outside of us. You have to have receptive meditation where you’re not generating any thought forums about it and you have a clear mind screen. But then to take action, you have to generate thought forums. That’s when you get into visualization, that’s when you start changing things in the world around you or even in your own energy field

Guy (50:45):
May. That’s brilliant. You, you’ve really crystallized something I I think that has been percolating around in my consciousness for a long time and you’ve just articulated in those few minutes. And so thank you. Uh, it was definitely a bit of a light bulb moment for me

Robert (50:59):
There. Great. Uh,

Guy (51:01):
Appreciate it. Um, just to, just to wrap a couple of things up, um, first question is are are we ever gonna see you in Australia? Robert, do you ever come back over this way?

Robert (51:12):
Yeah, I was there in, uh, 2018. Okay. Before Covid. And so I love Australia. I I lived there for a year and the late 1990s, so I love Australia and Australians, uh, to me Australians are like, um, British people who moved to the South Pacific and lost their inhibitions, which to me is a fantastic equation cuz I’m a bit of an anglophile to begin with. So I’ve always really enjoyed the culture in, in Australia people are like incredibly friendly compared to other places in the world I’ve been cuz that’s a great place. So I’d love to come back at some point. I don’t have any plans right now, but I, I would like to come back at some point. I do get a lot of Australian students for my online courses, whether they’re the pre-recorded online courses or things like the bio geometry where they do some pre-recorded elements and then we meet for these four hour installments together, online

Guy (52:07): Where can we send everyone if they want to look at more of your work? Robert, where’s the best place for all your courses and things like that?

Robert (52:14):
Oh, thank you. So the place to come is my website, which is vesica.org and Vesica is spelled V as in Victor, v e s i c a.org g.

Guy (52:26):
And which which course would be best to start with if you’re dipping your toe into this work for the first time?

Robert (52:32):
Well, what I usually tell people, we gotta take a break here for just a second.

Guy (52:41):
Yeah, no worries. Go for it.

Robert (52:43):
I’ll be right back. Sorry about that. I got something caught in my

Guy (52:47):
Yeah, no

Robert (52:47):
Problem. On my throat and couldn’t

Guy (52:49):
Get, guys can cut, we can cut all that out. The guys got That’s fine.

Robert (52:53):
So why don’t we go back to, you’re asking me about the, where people can find the information. I’ll answer that again and then like where to start.

Guy (53:03):
Perfect, perfect. So where can everyone, um, find the information to jump into your courses? Robert,

Robert (53:10):
Thank you so much. It’s going to be at my main website, which is veca.org and VECA is V as in Victor, e S I C a, so v e s i C a.org. And then when people first start out, then if you’re interested in the spiritual science consciousness development side, the, the spiritual science side that has the first class, uh, is called what I mentioned before, essential teachings and practices of spiritual science. So that’s the place to start on the spiritual science consciousness, understanding where we are as spiritual beings in the cosmos and the practices that will take us further on this particular trajectory. Then on the side of the vibrational science or what I refer to as seer subtle energy explorations and research, then one can start if they like with the bio geometry course, which is an incredible introduction to how to work with the subtle energies in and around us in our lives. Really nature’s design language and how we can use it for all these different aspects of life. And then I also have, uh, another one that is related to the teachings of the original French research and that’s referred to the vibrational testing and healing series. And there’s multiple courses within vibrational testing and healing to learn about what the French developed and that bio geometry then built on top of. So both of those are good places to start breaking into the vibrational science side.

Guy (54:47):
Amazing. Yeah, it, it is, it is fascinating. I’ve done the, the, the level one bio geometry course a couple of years ago and it, and it definitely opens your mind on all sorts of aspects for so for sure.

Robert (54:59):
Wonderful. So

Guy (55:01):
I, I’ll make sure for everyone listening, there’ll be links in the show notes as well if they wanna just drop below and, and click on and check out your work, Robert, which I definitely recommend everyone does. And I have one question I ask everyone to, to wrap up the podcast and that is with everything we’ve covered today, is there anything you’d like to leave the listeners to ponder on?

Robert (55:21):
I think the main thing is just to always understand that although we can feel very, very alone and lost in this initiation journey in this world, we’re never really alone. We are literally surrounded by spiritual beings and a much greater spiritual purpose and significance for our earthly life. And whatever pathway you choose to illuminate this, always be aware that there are paths available to you to create much more meaning in your life and to develop yourself to a much higher level to where you’re controlling your thoughts, controlling your emotions, you’re illuminating them in such a way that you can start to change the conditions of your physical life around you and you can actively create a life that is something that really matches what you’ve always felt inside should be the way you really should be living, but really makes sense and is congruent with your true inner essence. So never give up hope on that and keep moving forward, keep searching and as long as we keep putting one foot in front of the other, we’re gonna find those answers and we’re gonna get there.

Guy (56:33):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, Robert, thank you for coming on the podcast today. Thank you for all that you do. You’ve certainly had an impact on me, your work as well, and uh, I appreciate it and it’s nice to be able to pay it forward as well. So, um, I’m very grateful from here in Yamba Australia, mate. And uh, yeah. Thank you.

Robert (56:52):
Thank you.