Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Guy (00:00):
Hey, awesome people. My beautiful guest today is Jonathan Goldman, who is, I guess one of the original pioneers in Sound Healing Movement. Uh, what an amazing person. What a beautiful soul. And I love this conversation with him today. We not only get into his journey, uh, which is absolutely fascinating, of course, if you’re a fan of my podcast and tune in regular you, you would know that I love tapping into the people behind what they do as well and, and what brought ’em that if you’re to this point today, which is amazing, and also we get into the power of sound and some of his own techniques and, and there’s some practical, uh, components to this podcast too that we can apply in our lives immediately. So I have no doubt you will, um, enjoy today. Uh, if you do, of course, let me know when the comments blow.

Guy (00:48):
If you’re watch it on YouTube or if you iTunes, Spotify, hit a like button, subscribe button, any kind of button that’s gonna help us, uh, continue to get these conversations out there and reach more people, which are genuinely, um, very passionate about. So that is much appreciated. And of course, if you’re in Australia and you wanna actually experience the power of sound and meditation, come and join us. We run, uh, one Day Workshops up and down, uh, the east coast of Australia. Plus we obviously run three and five night retreats, which are very immersive as well. All that could be found in the links below. Enjoy this podcast with Jonathan. It’s awesome. Much love, and I’ll see you soon. Beautiful. We are recording. Jonathan, welcome to my podcast

Jonathan (01:40):
Guy. What a blessing it is to be talking to you. And anybody who’s gonna be watching or listening to this in the past, present, or future,

Guy (01:47):
They are. Appreciate it. You know, it’s funny, um, I’ve contemplated about reading bios out at the beginning of the podcast and things like that, but what I find even on my own podcast or when I listen to others, I, I wanna just jump to like, let’s get into it kind of thing. So I end up asking this question. If a stranger stopped you on the street and asked you what you did for a living, what would you say?

Jonathan (02:12):
Well, listen, my friend, I have to tell you that that’s gonna shift and change, uh, from year to year, day to day, and, uh, level of consciousness to level of consciousness. But as an overall gestalt, I’d say I’ve been on this, uh, path of working with sound as a healing and transformative modality for about 40 years. And my purpose is to reawaken to the planet and to the people on this planet, the uses of sound and music as positive tools for evolutionary acceleration.

Guy (02:45):
Amazing. And I’m, I’m, and I wanted to obviously run, dive into sound today, but do you find in that period of 40 years that people are awakening to the potential of sound? Have you noticed a shift in that time?

Jonathan (03:01):
Oh my goodness gracious. Yes, indeed. Uh, mind you, when I began doing this in the, uh, late 1970s and early eighties, um, and I would say to people that I was basically researching sound music for healing, they’d go, what? And now, uh, if you like, sound healing is about where yoga was 10 years ago, and now yoga is on every street corner. And sound healing is beginning to be, and I’m gonna suggest, uh, as an overall gestalt that yoga is a whole lot more than, uh, what’s found on most street corners. And there’s a whole lot more to sound healing than what, what it’s found these days. I love it. But once again, yoga is more than, uh, if you like another word for aerobics.

Guy (03:50):
Totally, totally. You know, it’s interesting on that topic, when I look back, being the ex welshman rugby playing kind of guy that never saw a yoga studio till he was nearly 30 in terms of, um, on a street corner, you know, um, I had no idea when I stepped into it, but what it did do, because I was doing a yoga class in a gymnasium in the middle of the city that I think didn’t really have the essence of yoga, but it actually opened up, I guess, a portal into that world, which then led me to start to look into it behind. So it was actually great exposure. I was grateful for that yoga class, even though I guess it wasn’t, it was like, you know what I’m saying?

Jonathan (04:34):
Well, two things Guy, first of all we’ll talk about, but one of the things that I really focus on these days is the hum as being a sound, because it’s all inclusive. And therefore, if you can just get that first step in there into any sort of accelerated consciousness or experience, or vibrational shift or healing, that’s great. But also, now, do you know the meaning of the word yoga?

Guy (04:59):
I don’t.

Jonathan (05:01):
Okay. Yoga basically simply is a sanscript word, meaning union, or to yoke, which is union with the divine. That’s actually what it means to yoke with higher levels of consciousness. Most people don’t. And they perceive that yoga is simply another word for what are called asanas or movements. And, you know, different positions. That’s one of eight major paths of yoga. One of the most predominant pass of yoga is called hab yoga, or, and which incorporates sound as well as mantra yoga. One is listening to sound and mantra. Yoga is making the sound. So, uh, sound is a huge part. The whole yoga phenomena.

Guy (05:47):
Amazing. And, uh, you’re triggering so many questions already. So the, obviously with sound then, and you, you mentioned the key point that I’d never thought about before is actually making sound and listening sound

Jonathan (06:03):
Already stop. There are two different waves that sound affects us. The first is called psychoacoustics. That is where the sound goes into your ear, into your brain, affects your nervous system, your heart rate, your respiration, your brain waves. So anytime we listen to sound, whether it’s music or the voice, we are being on one level, psycho acoustically affected. And this is why on a level, also, one of the easiest ways of working with sound as a healing modality is simply to the conversational voice. I’m gonna keep going in the second, uh, phenomena is called viro acoustics. And that’s where sound goes into the body, into us on a cellular level, on a molecular level affecting us down to our dna. That’s viro acoustics. And if I were to suggest to you that that’s, uh, pretty much right now still unexplored, uh, phenomena, science is basically working with how the brain is affected by listening to sounds, but vibe acoustics is very powerful.

Jonathan (07:17):
I’m going to give you a quote from the New York Times Science section February 8th, 1988. Got a lot of eights, I remember it. And it basically says, sound shaped into dazzling tool can make break or rearrange molecular structure. And then the second part of that is ant levitate objects. That’s a nother rabbit hole that we probably will not go into, but I’m just saying that there are two major ways. So I really like to tell people, okay, sound affects you through your ears. It affects you through your body, and that’s really, really important. Okay, go back on, you hit the question.

Guy (08:00):
So no, I’ll keep going with that then, because then if you’re using your voice, you know, you talked about the hum earlier, but if you’re using your voice, there’s a sound that’s being created, a vibration that’s being created,

Jonathan (08:10):
Right? Do you know what the most powerful viro acoustic sound that we can make is?

Guy (08:18):
Well, from the voice,

Jonathan (08:22):
Ah, the hum. The

Guy (08:23):
Humm.

Jonathan (08:24):
The humm. Now, here we go. We’re gonna play a game. I’m jumping all over the place. I haven’t even told you any cool stories and I’ve got so many cool stories, uh, about my life and all that stuff. But just getting into the hum and then we’ll get back in. We’ll entice anybody who is watching, listening, or resonating with this to go ho but the hum. So when you hum, there are just a couple of things. My wife and I have a, an award-winning book called The Humming Effect. And when You Hum we do, we call it conscious humming. So there are three or four things that we say that you want to do when you do conscious humming. One of them is you have to hum on just one tone, because if you’re doing zippity, Duda or whatnot, the sound is, the frequencies are moving all around. So if you’re going, Hmm, you can hear that’s just one tone. Number two, gotta have your lips closed. I go,

Jonathan (09:29):
You can hear then the sound is going out. And part of that is being, if you like, the sound energy is being not lost, but it’s being dissipated into the air. But the third one is to do it in a level where it’s comfortable for you. Most people, a lot of people are teaching, oh, we’re gonna find your sound for you. We’re gonna find the tone that’s the best for you. You know what it usually is, it’s right around in your conversational voice. There’s a reason why your conversational voice, if you’ve cleared yourself, is at a certain level. Now. So with this in mind, I want you to do a hum Hmm. And I want you to pinch your nose. You gotta make sure your lips are closed. If your lips aren’t closed, then you’re not doing a hum. Right?

Guy (10:17):
Okay. So lips closed, humming, nose pinched.

Jonathan (10:20):
Yeah. Start humming and then pinch your nose and tell me, and let’s see what happens.

Guy (10:24):
Hmm. <laugh>.

Jonathan (10:31):
Okay, Guy, tell us what happened. You can’t hum if your nose is closed,

Guy (10:36):
You can’t hum. Exactly.

Jonathan (10:38):
And I say, okay, if you didn’t know that, most people don’t know that. I say, do you think there’s some other things about the hum that perhaps I can basically, uh, enlighten you with? But isn’t that hilarious? So that means that all the sound that is being created is in the nasal cavity and which is why, therefore it’s the most powerful vibe acoustic. Cuz once you’re gonna, I go, mm, it’s a great sound going out. I go,

Jonathan (11:08):
But a lot of that sound energy is going out here. It’s being totally self-contained. Yeah. And, and being, well, when you Mm, you get the release of all sorts of crazy things. You get the release of melatonin, you’ve probably heard of that. You get the release of heart, you get a reduction of heart rate respiration, brain waves go down, you get oxytocin being generated. You get all sorts of things, including, and here’s maybe the hip is, is you get the release of nitric oxide, nitric oxide, which is a vasodilator. And I’m sure that you know all about that in terms of opening up, uh, your circulatory system. And it is also an antiviral agent, which means that if you hum it’ll get rid of oftentimes some of the nasty critters that not lo lodge themselves in the nasal cavity first before they go into the body. So when you hum consciously, as we talked about, and you, hmm. And you do it about four or five times and then you gotta stop and wait a couple minutes for the nitric oxide to regenerate, you get 15 times the amount of nitric oxide that is being normally generated, even if you do what is called nitric oxide breathing. Pretty interesting, huh?

Guy (12:39):
Fascinating. So would you recommend Humming, obviously on a daily basis then?

Jonathan (12:44):
Totally. Man, I, I’ve been doing this for a long time, 40 years plus, and have gone through everything from harmonics to Tibetan deep fos to tuning forks, to Crystal Bowls to X, Y, Z. And I use them all, but I have a humming practice with my wife and it is just a wondrous thing. Cuz you know what, once again, I, I’m initiated into all sorts of different traditions, uh, and I know all sorts of really major mantras and all sorts of things mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but, which makes me way, way cool. But at the same time, I’m not here to stand on a pedestal and go, Hey, look what I can do, what I, my purpose is to bring the sound to the planet and the people. And this means bringing and creating the most all inclusive sound. And that guy is the hum. Cuz out of all the sounds that I’ve worked with and I’ve taught over the years, people oftentimes have issues with their voice.

Jonathan (13:54):
Whether it’s because, well, you know, this is before they had American Idol or The Voice or any of these things where we go judge and look for the best voice. People just really, they’re very, very fearful and judgmental about their voice. But I’ve never encountered anybody who says, oh, I can’t hum good <laugh>. You know, so humming is, uh, you know, that’s the reason my wife and I are going, okay, what is a sound? Everybody can make sound that everybody can, babies the elder, everybody, people hum when they feel good. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, they just do unconsciously they hum. What is the sound that, um, is all inclusive, we say? And we looked at each other, we went, Hmm. And then we wrote a book called The Humming Effect, which somewhere around here I can actually, uh, hold on for a second, watch this. And it’s only cuz it’s such a cool book that I wanted to bring it to the attention of the audience.

Guy (15:00):
Beautiful. Those links as well below if people wanna order a copy

Jonathan (15:05):
For sure. And it is, you know, it’s an award-winning book and a bestseller and all this stuff. But I’m just so happy and it’s being picked up by so many different people in terms of the, of humming, cuz once again, and here’s the do we were talking about yoga before, right? So in yoga there is a, uh, very, very, very old yoga book. Thousands and thousands of years old is Pons Yoga Sutra. He, he, it’s basically the whole book that the phenomena of yoga is based upon is this, this one book called The Yoga Sutra. And my wife and I were teaching at a place, uh, that was Swami Sacha Ashram. And uh, I have a residence with Swami Sacha Nanda cuz I’m a child of the Woodstock Nation. I was at Woodstock and Woodstock began with Swami Saa leading a half a million or more people probably were a million and a half.

Jonathan (16:16):
But that’s just, uh, to together chanting together, uh, some mantras. And boy, uh, if I can just suggest that that may have been the thing back when I was, uh, you know, 19 or 20 years old, that, uh, you know, caused me to go, this is real. But we’re down close to 30 years later at Swami sa Ashram, maybe more actually. Cause Woodstock was a while ago. And there is his translation of the yoga sutures. Cause every good guru has gotta do their own translation of the yoga sutures by ponies. And I just opened it up and the page I opened it up to is Suture 1.27. And Guy, it basically said, and this is Jonathan Goldman’s remembrance of Swami Sao translation, but it said something akin to the original Sound of Creation was pva, the humming of prana that had to give it a name. So they called it om. So the sound of the hum became so the om came from the hum

Guy (17:43):
Huh. Wow.

Jonathan (17:45):
<laugh>.

Guy (17:47):
So talk to me then about sound, if sound is creation and we are, we are creation experience itself. That’s how, how I see it. Then what are we do? What’s, and I’m thinking of everyone here cause obviously I work with someone with sound as well and I’ve got my own kind of interpretation. But I’d love to hear you

Jonathan (18:10):
Totally

Guy (18:11):
Share because it, we’re in a, we’re in a stressful world. I, I feel like our bodies are constantly out of its natural resonance. If it’s natural harmonic tune or, or however you wanna frame it. So then with, cuz you had talked about Psychoacoustic, vibroacoustic, you know, sound, we hearing sound that’s in Crouching the Body. What is going on? Are we creating a, a re a re resonance back to our, our natural self? Is that what happens when we work with sound? How, how do you kind of view it all?

Jonathan (18:48):
Sure. You could just simply say we’re putting ourselves in tune.

Guy (18:52):
In tune.

Jonathan (18:53):
Um, and for each of us, I like to believe that our intunement is a little different. Listen guy, I’m gonna jump now. I can’t help, but I’m just, you know, I love teaching sound and um, I have some stuff that I wanna share. I do wanna, I, I do love talking, uh, and telling you stories, et cetera, et cetera. But I wanna tell you about what we call the four pillars of sound Healing. Beautiful. And this actually comes from my, uh, one of my earlier books called The Seven Secrets of Sound Healing. But I just took four of them there. I actually was guided, uh, to work with these four and I hadn’t remembered and turned out they were the, the, the first four, uh, secrets of the Seven Secrets. But the first one is that everything is vibration. And you know, we talked about that.

Jonathan (19:50):
There are two different ways that, uh, we work with vibration through hearing and through then the, you know, psychoacoustics and through Vibroacoustic, right? That’s the first one. The second one is intent is powerful. And this is something that is hugely, hugely important. It’s back in the 1980s, I got a master’s degree from Leslie University researching the uses of sound and music for healing. And at the time I had a pile of papers of this one. We still had paper, a pile of paper about Joha. And I had been basically researching all these different systems that worked with using sound for healing. And I come from a family of doctors, father, grandfather and brother were all doctors. And I thought, okay, you know, pretty good developer left brain. I’m gonna basically be the first person who has put all this stuff together and correlated everything. And I’m gonna have the sound of this for this and the sound of this for this. And this is dating me. I was using, I’m sitting in front of a computer that’s got a DOS operating system. The screen, you’re going, what? The screen is dark, the letters were amber color. And here I’m trying to, uh, write and put in information and there’s this amber kind of gold cursor that’s flashing on and off waiting for me to put information in it.

Jonathan (21:33):
And I’m going through these papers and all of a sudden I realize that spiritual master A is using a particular set of mantras for the shockers and spiritual masterpiece is using completely different set of mantras for the chakras. Or Dr. X is using a specific set of frequencies for one organ, Dr y completely different set of frequencies for the same organ. I’m sitting there in a state of intellectual angst going, how can this be? How can this be? Oh my God. And all of a sudden I hear this inner voice and it says, it is not only the frequency of the person making and receiving the sound, it is also the intention of the person making and receiving the sound that creates the effect. And I wrote on this computer the words frequency plus intent equals healing. I’ll say that again. Frequency plus intent equals healing. And another way that I look at it now is sound plus belief equals outcome. But once again, what is the consciousness? What are you trying to encode upon the sound? And oftentimes that is what you’re gonna come up with. And for me at the time I was interested in healing. So it’d be frequency plus 10 equals healing. So that is the, you know, second if you like, pillar is that you got a question. Okay, sir. <laugh>,

Guy (23:13):
So does that mean because you know, you, you click on a sound website, people listen to this podcast, we’ll probably then get ads coming up to them, you know, um yeah. Meditation with this frequency for this organ, or you know, to the sun or whatever it might be. Right? You know? Yeah. And you get the different hurts, right? So does that, and, and the way you listen to them or look at them, it’s like, oh, I’m just gonna lay back and listen to this and, and it’s gonna heal me. Yeah. But what you’re saying is, is that everyone’s slightly un everyone is a unique and if we don’t bring the intention in behind it.

Jonathan (23:46):
Yeah, I haven’t gotten to that one even yet. That’s oh right. That, that’s the next one. But let me just suggest to you, let me just suggest to you that I think that it’s not my belief system that there are keynotes of frequencies that are more healing than others. I think that’s a wonderful marketing tool. And there is a whole phenomena of people who believe that certain frequencies, hey, I’m listening to this at this frequency. And therefore, well, you know, if they believe therefore that they’re gonna get that response, do you know how hard it was when I came up with frequency plus and 10 equals healing and trying to talk to these doctors and whatnot? I say, have you ever thought about the importance of intention? And now you got people like Bruce Lipton, the biology of belief for Jodi spins of the placebo effector, masu Moto showing that you can change the, uh, crystalline structure of water molecules with intentionality.

Jonathan (24:41):
And all of a sudden people go, oh, okay, yeah, that’s there. So just if you have a belief that a particular sound is gonna have a particular effect, bless it be, but it’s not in my belief, cuz I don’t personally wanna limit the different gods and goddesses, uh, uh, to specific frequencies. Mantras are different. Mantras and frequencies are not particularly the same. But to say that, you know, a certain frequency, I could go into this in a really big way, but I would just tell you that it’s a brilliant tool for making money, is if you convince people that a specific frequency is gonna have a specific effect. I’ve done that just as a, uh, as an experiment. And people go, whoa, this is great. And I wouldn’t say, well, I don’t wanna say, Hey, it’s not necessarily the frequency you think it was, I was just doing it. You know, an experiment to see what would happen if you thought it was cuz it doesn’t matter.

Guy (25:41):
Beautiful.

Jonathan (25:43):
And that’s really on a level as much of a truth as I’ve been able to, you know, ascertain in terms of this. Now that doesn’t mean that two harmonically related, for example, tuning forks that ha create a, if you like, create a sonic field. I’ll just do this and you can, you could hear that and you feel that it’s, I mean, I could go into a long wrap about the fact that yes, sea has been scientifically demonstrated. It’s the two to three ratio or the perfect fifth. Yes, sir.

Guy (26:26):
So you had, I’ll just explaining for everyone, even people listening to you had two tune in folks that you tapped and then you said there was a sonic field,

Jonathan (26:34):
Right? Because I

Guy (26:35):
Saw you hold them either side of the microphone then, right? Right.

Jonathan (26:38):
The sonic field. But bottom line, it doesn’t matter as long as the, these are in the, of two to three or three to two doesn’t matter. But the field is created by the ratio of two to three. And it doesn’t matter what the individual frequency of the tuning fork is, the field is created by both of them. Are they harmonically related? So these could, this could be an X frequency and this could be Y, but if it then creates the two to three ratio, then you get the field. Does that make sense? I just did really advanced physics of sound and this was all known about by agava, the name of pys, many, many, uh,

Guy (27:19):
It makes complete sense, but then it does trigger the question. Yeah. So then by having the, the, you know, X and y or the two different tuning folks, creating the sonic field, creating our resonance, and then that is the field that is helping us come into resonance if we use it on ourselves, is that, is that what then happens? That’s

Jonathan (27:38):
It. And then if you project and, and particularly look one of these

Guy (27:43):
Project intention with it,

Jonathan (27:45):
Right? Exactly. One of these is gonna be fine, but it’s my, you know, if I go

Jonathan (27:52):
You

Guy (27:54):
Oh yeah.

Jonathan (27:55):
But if I go, you can feel the difference can,

Guy (28:05):
Yeah.

Jonathan (28:05):
And just as a big thing, getting back to ancient Egypt, you remember they had the inks?

Guy (28:13):
Yes.

Jonathan (28:15):
Throwing a lot of stuff at you and probably at your audience too. And let me get back to the, um, third pillar of sound healing. First one is everything is, uh, vibration. Uh, everything is vibration. The second is intent is powerful. Third one is, we are all unique vibratory beings. And I always ask, when I’m doing a workshop and I speak to people, I say, okay, how many of you are allergic to pen, penicillin and anywhere guy from five to 20% of an audience are gonna be allergic? Sometimes even a lot more. And I’ll say, okay, if you think that everything is vibration, then penicillin is a frequency or a composite frequency, it doesn’t much matter. And for 80% of the people it’s gonna be healing, but for 20% it’s gonna be toxic. Think of that as a metaphor for everything. I just have, I personally have never encountered any sort of supplement product or whatnot that works for everyone. Have you?

Guy (29:35):
No, no. Makes complete sense.

Jonathan (29:38):
So therefore we need to honor what works for each of us as opposed to going, oh, here you have a, you, you have this condition, use this frequency, it’ll do it. Now mind you, mind you, if you put the consciousness in the belief, it’s gonna be helpful. But if you start having adverse reactions to it, and I’ve seen people have adverse reactions to specific frequencies or specific intervals, then I go, okay, that doesn’t feel good for you. Stop doing it and find something that does, does this make sense? Mm-hmm.

Guy (30:21):
<affirmative> complete sense? Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan (30:25):
I’m gonna pause for a moment and as long as we’re here, I’ll do the fourth of the pillars of sound healing. And the fourth is silence is golden. And that means that silence is very, very important. Silence is very, very powerful. And that in fact, silence is the yin to the yang of sound. And silence is mandatory to work with. Because if you are working with sound all the time, working with a frequency, if you keep moving and shifting these frequencies, then you don’t give the sound the ability to set itself into the body and create the vibration and shift and change. So that, for example, if we, uh, my, if my wife Andy and I are teaching humming and we have people hump for five minutes, we have ’em be in silence for five minutes because that’s really where the major shift in changing happens. That’s all of a sudden where the stuff, the re you know, the real juice occurs in the silence.

Guy (31:33):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it also allows me, makes me think about just giving space to ourselves. Right. You know? And when I look, when I wanna resolve problems or move forward in different directions or whatever it might be, or challenges that arise, I never try and solve them these days. I just give myself space.

Jonathan (32:01):
Well, here, here’s one.

Guy (32:02):
It’s the silence it comes from.

Jonathan (32:04):
Yes. Beautiful. Here’s one, did you know that the word listen and the word silent or anagrams? Same amount of letters. So if you’re silent, you can listen within.

Guy (32:18):
Oh, there you go. I did not know that. <laugh>,

Jonathan (32:24):
I’m full of little witticisms that came from my wife Andy, actually.

Guy (32:28):
Yeah, no, it’s beautiful. It’s beautiful. So, uh, with all this in mind then, when did you truly experience for your first time the true power of sound when it comes to, I dunno, revealing an aspect of yourself or healing or whatever it might be, be because I certainly had one. That’s why I work with Yeah. With some of the sound. Beautiful, you know,

Jonathan (32:54):
Beautiful guy. Yeah. Um, I’m gonna jump back to before I had that experience. Now it’s storytelling time. Okay,

Guy (33:07):
Go for it.

Jonathan (33:12):
I’m playing in a rock and roll band on Cape Cod, Massachusetts, United States. I strap on my stratocaster, come back off of a break, and I start playing and all of a sudden I become aware that the ambiance in the club was one of negativity in violence. Now, guy, I had been playing professionally since I was about 15. I was close to 30 years old at this time. And I’d never had that thought. And I became aware that okay, a lot of this negativity and violence was the different intoxicants that people were imbibing in the drugs and the alcohol and whatnot. But I realized that at the time, the music that I was creating at the time, this has nothing to do with anything to do with saying that rock and roll is bad or whatnot. But I was playing sort of a very negative, uh, oriented type of music, uh, which is all that was happening.

Jonathan (34:18):
It was a great ex learning experience. And I thought, oh my goodness gracious. I had this thought. And I’ve been playing professionally now for about 15 years and I’ve actually done some pretty well known gigs and, uh, I, gee, I wonder if music can be used to make people feel better. That’s all. I’ve never had that thought. Can music be used to make people feel better in a week? That thought shifted, maybe five or 10 degrees became, gee, I wonder if sound can be used to heal from there. Within about a week, I got a sheet of paper that had a workshop on it about healing with sound. This is back around 19 79, 19 80, done by a woman named Sarah Benson. I went to this workshop, Sarah became one of my great teachers initiators, and she’s, uh, uh, she, my wife and her became dear friends. And she actually is the godmother of, uh, my son.

Jonathan (35:25):
She’s passed on to the higher planes, but we call her the, uh, you know, godmother of sound healing. And, um, what happened was she lived in n size, there were about 30 in this, uh, workshop. And she led me in an exercise where I held a quartz crystal, kinda like this. And I was sitting there and they, the group of people were chanting my name, projecting an intentionality and projecting a color. And all of a sudden I went outta my body. I was in this crystal amethyst pyramid in the woods when I came back to my body. Wow. I said, wow, I gotta find out more about sound and more about crystals. So, and that was, so that was my first experience with sound, but certainly not my last.

Guy (36:24):
Wow. Can you repeat what they did? So you had the quartz crystal, was it qu Oh,

Jonathan (36:28):
Okay. This, this, uh, this is actually in my very first book called Healing Sounds, which just got re-released in October, a 30th anniversary edition. And, um, it’s actually a great book talking about harmonics, talking about all sorts of things. It’s probably the one that’s got the most scientific information. And you know what, I didn’t change a word of it. I wrote it 30 years ago and there’s nothing in it that is, has been changed or is not correct cuz you know, a frequency is a frequency and a harmonic, which is a multiple, the frequency. And that’s, uh, under a section called the Song of the Soul. And once again, and this was an exercise that I would do with almost every group that we have. Yeah. You make a circle, put a person in the middle of the circle, have them usually put them on the ground, although they can be sitting, have ’em hold a crystal usually on the heart. And then you have the, have them say their na their name, an affirmation and a color they would like to receive. Then have the group begin to slowly chant the person’s name, guy, guy, guy, 30 people chanting guy. And all of a sudden go, guy, guy. All of a sudden it becomes an incredible sonic song of the soul that is unique and different for every person. And it is mind blowing.

Guy (38:12):
Wow.

Jonathan (38:13):
And it’s brilliant.

Guy (38:16):
I have to try it. That sounds incredible.

Jonathan (38:19):
It’s brilliant. It’s

Guy (38:20):
Brilliant. And especially for then for you to actually have that experience that is like, wow. Because the, the, here’s the thing, right? This is where I get really excited about because, you know, we were talking about air and I was like kind of tinkering with the work, and then I had this experience. Yeah. And you go, oh my God. Like every, it’s, it’s almost like every nook and cranny belief system that you had that you didn’t even realize was there kind of like starts to dissolve. And then you really start to allow the true self, the divine within you to, to come through you. And, and, but I, I had no words or experiences or, or a language around it at the time or anything. And then totally slowly and then I think, oh my God, if, if other people could just have one experience like this, right?

Jonathan (39:11):
And, and once you experience it, it’s real. Cuz all the stuff that I’m talking about, about the power of sound is simply mental plain thought forms. And then when you get zapped, it becomes real for you. And your life has changed

Guy (39:34):
Forever.

Jonathan (39:35):
Forever. Now I’m gonna give you a co since I, uh, and thank you for allowing me to, you know, have the opportunity of presenting the Song of the Soul. I would like to suggest that it is way powerful and that there are a couple things that you really wanna do. First of all, at the end, after the voices that people have stopped, you want to basically allow a few minutes for the person to return to their body. Don’t make ’em get up, or they’ll pitch right over again. That’s first desire is that they, oh, that was great. And they get up and then, so don’t let them sit there and have somebody there grounding them. Usually we have then people that will maybe you or whomever go into the circle, ground their feet and just make sure that they’re okay because it can be very, very powerful.

Jonathan (40:32):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And as you begin the thing, first of all, set the field with intention. Whether you do a prayer, whatever prayer that you like, I like to work with a being that I call Shama El. He, he’s the angel of Sacred Sound, uh, in, uh, Cabala. He is, uh, known as, uh, which is a Hebrew mysticism. He’s known as Meditron. But we ask that the, the sound of lights surround us, the light us on goddess, the sacred sound come through us for the harmony of alls. We put the intention there cuz it’s really important set and setting. A lot of people are into working with psychotropics these days. That’s wonderful. But the real key about that stuff is to make sure that the set and setting are really, really pristine and beautiful. Because if you’re dealing with sacred vibrational shifting and sound is, if you like, remember that most of the major magicians in ancient times were also musicians.

Guy (41:37):
Wow.

Jonathan (41:38):
Did you know that the word abracadabra, and you’ve heard of abracadabra right? Is actually an Aramaic term, which means I will create, when I make sound or as I make sound, I will create. And there is an example of a word that, uh, the magical term that just totally got, uh, demolished. Cuz you can do that. You can almost make any sound sacred or you can almost take any sacred sound and demolish it with intention. It became the brunt of a joke. Abra cadabra, you pull something out of a hat and everybody would laugh. Poor abra cadabra, <laugh>

Guy (42:16):
<laugh>. So, so tell me then, once you had that experience with, uh, was it Sarah Benson?

Jonathan (42:26):
Is that Yes, that’s right. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

Guy (42:29):
And so you, you’ve, you’ve gone into this workshop. You’re, you are, you’re playing as a musician and you are starting to lean in about

Jonathan (42:39):
Right play played as a musician, made that decision to see, uh, boy, I wonder if sound could be used for healing from there. I basically have, uh, I’ve given a piece of paper, go to the workshop, have my life turned upside down, and then there’s a last part to this one. Okay. Uh, I guess she sensed that there was something interesting about me and she invited me to a gathering that night that was of different people who were really interested in using sound for healing. And I went to the gathering and there were so many different people, you wouldn’t necessarily know them, but for example, Dr. Randall McClellan, who was the, basically he taught the first college level course using Sound for Healing. And he had has written a brilliant book that’s really old but got more information than the mo Uh, most people who’d ever even con consider called the Healing Forces of Music.

Jonathan (43:42):
He was there, there are about 10 or 15 people. One of the people who I saw a couple of nights ago named Robert Gas, who is the basically person, one of the people who brought Keans to uh, you know, the States. But they’re there. And I said, wow, this is great. This is the most incredible thing I’ve ever experienced all these people sharing. And they really knew. And guys said, when’s the next meeting? I said, this is the last one. I said, what do you mean this is the last one? I said, well, you know, we just, we can’t do it. It’s too much work, you know, and just nobody wants to take it over. I said, I’m gonna take it over and I’m gonna do it. And I did it. And I, well first thing I did, which was something that they hadn’t done, is I gave it a name and I called it the New England Sound Healers, which then the Sound Healers Association and this, it’s still in existence.

Jonathan (44:36):
You can go to the Sound healers association.org and it’s a wonderful, uh, group of people that still exists. So I just wanted to suggest that that’s what happened next for me. Then after that I went to Leslie University where I basically got a master’s degree in using F Sound for, uh, healing. I took my record company, which was a new wave punk rock label. And I changed it to be being a new aged therapeutic music label. And the one thing I did not have to do, I didn’t have to change the name of the record company, cuz strangely enough, the record company was called Spirit Music.

Jonathan (45:22):
And it still exists today. And, you know, we’re, we’ve done Grammy nominations and all sorts of different, uh, you know, best selling recordings and all that stuff. So that’s, that’s been my thing. And, um, got about a half a dozen books that, uh, are out there, including the Humming Effect, healing Sound Chakra Frequencies, the Seven Secrets of Sound Healing. So they’re all good, over 30 different recordings. And, um, and it’s wonderful to see sound continue to blossom and grow to such a degree that I can say, you know, people go, well, I’m into sound healing. I said, great, you know what San Lean was when I, when I suggested, uh, that I was into using sound for healing, people would go, what? And well, you know, I know that music can u be used to, you know, calm people down. That was about as far as they can, they, they, they went back then and now it’s very different.

Guy (46:22):
Totally. Question for you then on, on that, because we’ve talked about sound and music and this might be the o oversimplified question, but I’m thinking, cause obviously music is sound, but it’s composed and right. Yeah. Okay,

Jonathan (46:40):
So lemme throw this at you. First of all. Okay. I differentiate between sound and music. I think that the, that as Giros told us in the sound of music, the hills are alive with the sound of music. But not all sound is musical. All music is sound, but not all sound is musical. And the reason I differentiated this is cause when I got into healing sound, sometimes you’d get these frequencies, you know, here we go.

Jonathan (47:18):
That’s a Tibetan deep voice that’s con considered really sacred sound. Some people hear that they freak out. So it’s not mu it might be the music of Tibet, but it is not necessarily musical in the Western terms. So I, I made that differentiation so that people might be experiencing a a, uh, now we have the term sound bath and that’s pretty, that that’s pretty new. That’s about five or 10 years old. But before that, uh, if you were to do things and at the time it was weird and people would go, what the heck is going on there? And, you know, if they were expecting Mozart, you know, which a lot of people might do, go, Hey, no, we’re talking about single tone frequencies or composite frequencies. I mean now they call ’em sound bass. Now they call ’em this and that At the time people wouldn’t know what to do with it and they wouldn’t have considered it music. Now, was that your question or not?

Guy (48:16):
Yeah, well, yes to, to a degree because it was then like, we go in for it, like you use the term sound bass. So we kind of got this, um, thinking anyway, I’m gonna go and lay in a soundbar to, to receive healing. Okay.

Jonathan (48:32):
Right.

Guy (48:33):
But then we can play music and we just listen and we do it all day. But can music have a healing effect then? I, I guess I’m saying,

Jonathan (48:42):
Well, surely in my, you know, if I were to tell you that I have a gazillion different feedbacks from people who’ve experienced profound healing from listening to the music. And I think part of that is the fact that I use specific mantras, specific intervals, specific, all sorts of different things. I put ’em together. One of the things that I learned was that sacred sounds could be used together. So from, uh, one of my first recordings that became really world famous called Chakra Chance, I used about a dozen different systems, uh, of, uh, sound healing. And I, I put them all together and they worked. And, you know, um, it was, it was very, very incredible. So I’m very, very aware of Sonic Fields and the more you are aware of creating fields of sound, part of it is through the sound. Part of it is through the invocation.

Jonathan (49:45):
And you know, if you like asking these different spirits and beings to come onto the sound, cuz you know what, they’re happy to do that. But if you don’t, they won’t necessary. And in fact, you can take a mantra, um, you know, a mantra is great, but if you wanna empower the mantra more, you ask the deity or the being to come on to the mantra and you become aware of who and what the mantra is about a very simple technique that I oftentimes share all the time when working with either music or sound, just to really encode it with positive energy. Um, I dunno if you’ve ever heard of heart math, but they’re a wonderful organization and they have a technique which simply, I think it’s called the heart lock. But what it is, you start breathing slowly, then you basically, as you’re breathing in, you breathe in and out through your heart at the same time.

Jonathan (50:53):
And then you add the element of gratitude and appreciation. And what happens then is the electromagnetic field of the heart and the brain getting to a state of coherence together. And the electromagnetic field grows from anywhere from 50 to 500, even 5,000 times greater and guide than there’s an missing ingredient. And I’m just having to say that this is the, uh, uh, I have not researched it cuz I’m not into re uh, doing research. Somebody will. And once again, I love the fact that oftentimes, oh, I’ve been teaching something for 10 or 15 years, and then they go, Hey, this has been proven. But you’re gonna find that there is a reason why the basic prayers on our planet are vocalized, whispered, chanted, spoken or sung. And that is because sound amplifies the power of prayer. It amplifies and helps focus the power of prayer. So if you have this heart wrinkle coherence, and then you add sound to it, it becomes even greater.

Guy (52:07):
I’m gonna ask you a question then. What sound would you, if you are doing hard coherence daily, which is I do every morning, I spent 40 minutes this morning. You, but what song would you then add to that?

Jonathan (52:23):
Great. I do a sound sat song with my wife Andy once a month. And people are invited to there. I have a Jonathan Goldman official YouTube channel. So w we’ve done, uh, 10 10 so far. And, um, part of it we have a 10 minute guided global sound meditation that people do and we work with usually like the last one that we did, we work with the Hum, um, doing the heartburn coherence and, and the hum. Another great sound is the om, which is very, uh, close to the hum but not the same. And then the ah, sound, the ah sound. Um, we, uh, have for the last 21 years on February 14th, which is Valentine’s Day, at least here in the United States, um, we have an event called World Sound Healing Day, which takes place throughout the planet. People from Australia are big into doing in certain people.

Jonathan (53:27):
And basically when I first came up with this idea, it was the idea of sending a Sonic Valentine to the Gaia matrix or Mother Earth. And basically the sound we used was the ah, sound. Cuz if you think about it, number one, certain vowel sounds that resonate, the different chakras and the ah, and the Aza sound and whether the, you know, the different God and goddess names, most of them have, ah, it Tara Buddha, [inaudible] Krishna, ah, that’s a sound. We really like something. We’ll go, ah. So that is a real good sign to work with or you can work with a hum they feel a little different and it’s whatever you resonate with. Does that make sense?

Guy (54:16):
All makes sense. Yeah. Play with it. Yeah.

Jonathan (54:20):
It says make a joyful noise, you know, fun, joy, you know. Hey. Yes.

Guy (54:27):
Yeah. Beautiful. Thank you. And as we, as we move towards the end of the podcast, Jonathan, a couple of questions. I’m curious now, what projects do you have on the go at the moment? You, you talked about the YouTube channel. Are you writing any books? You’re creating more music? Are you out there doing workshops, like

Jonathan (54:43):
All of the above? Uh, one of the things I’m getting back to doing is re-releasing a book of mine called The Divine Name that I don’t know if you ever heard of Greg Braden.

Guy (54:56):
I’ve interviewed Greg a few times. Yeah, yeah,

Jonathan (54:58):
Greg, Greg did the, um, the introduction to it and, uh, it’s a really sacred vow oriented, uh, sound that is brilliant and universal and it was released and I got the rights back and I want to just re-release it myself. So that’s one thing that I, that I’m working on. And um, boy, where to begin, I don’t know, just we’re doing our sound soft songs always with more music, always this and that because it’s just great. So if, you know, and I, I’m here to be an elder of sound. A lot of folks think, oh, I’m gonna re you know, do stuff and they end up reinventing the wheel or doing stuff that’s gonna take him into a direction. So I’m really here to, uh, <laugh> even like assist my wife Andy and I, that’s what’s going on.

Guy (55:52):
Beautiful.

Jonathan (55:53):
One of the things.

Guy (55:55):
Yeah. And, um, can you say your website out loud as well? There will be links in the show notes.

Jonathan (56:01):
Great. But it’s, it’s healing sounds.com, healing sounds with an s@theend.com. And we’ve got all sorts of, really, it’s an, it’s an award-winning website as a matter of fact, won the Visionary Award for best website. And it’s, uh, got just all sorts of free stuff on it. All sorts of, um, interviews, articles, um, downloads, et cetera. It, you know, a as well as if people want to get different tools, whether they’re tuning forks or whatnot, you know, or books or musical downloads, et cetera. But it’s a really great website that I think people will really enjoy. And we have some also online courses that are fabulous, including one by one of the great Tibet monks, Lama Tashi, who is the Dai Lama’s favorite chant master doing a, uh, online, uh, course on Tibetan Secrets of Happiness. Wow. Which is way cool. So I, I invite people to visit healing sounds.com.

Guy (57:14):
Beautiful. Beautiful. And I have one question for you to wrap it up, which I ask everyone on the show, Jonathan, and that is everything we’ve covered today, which has been a lot. Um, what would, what would you like to leave the listeners to ponder on?

Jonathan (57:33):
Oh wow. To ponder on, uh, that’s, that, that, that’s one I haven’t thought of. And the first thing that always comes in my mind is the fact that compassion is so very, very important in terms of our dealing, being compassionate with ourselves and being compassionate with each other. And in fact, one of our most frequent, uh, teachings is on using sound with compassion, which is why oftentimes we’ll bring in the, uh, heart math thing. So as a final uh, concept of that, it’s like how can you best generate compassion, kindness, love to yourself and to others? Cuz I will just tell you that if we can do that, if we can be kind and compassionate to each other, we can then begin to work together. One plus one equals three and we can change our planet and all the beings on it.

Guy (58:50):
What a beautiful place to end the podcast. Jonathan, thank you so much. I can’t believe it’s taking me this long to reach out to you, mate. I’m so happy you came on and shared you today. Um, thank you so much and I will, I will certainly be looking, uh, much deeper into your work moving forward. I really appreciate everything you you do for us

Jonathan (59:09):
And Guy you keep up your work with sound cuz you know what, it’s only just begun.

Guy (59:16):
Hmm, totally. Thank you.