#245 William Whitecloud discussed how creativity and genius is the result of self-reflection and not having to rely on external influences. He used the example of Jimmy Hendrix, a renowned guitarist who created music that sounded like nothing heard before and was not copied from anyone else. He stated that the more self-referential one is, the closer they are to achieving genius, which will also lead to success in any field.

William also mentioned his book, Secrets of Natural Success, which further demonstrated this point. The conversation was about creativity and how it can be used to achieve success in life. William talked about how creativity is not the same thing as an IQ genius and how it is more of a self-referential type of genius. He is helping people become more creative in themselves so they can be more successful in their lives.

By using creativity as a mode of operation, one is able to derive their own sense of reality and connect dots that have not been connected before. People need to formulate their own vision from their inner sense of vision, have a sense of orientation, and then connect the dots effectively. Creativity is accessible to everyone, not just those in creative professions.

If you enjoyed this podcast, you may also like: Awakening To Your Highest Potential | Dr Sue Morter

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About William: William Whitecloud is a creative development trainer, and his job is to teach people how to be creative. He is the author of Secrets Of Natural Success and founded and teaches the Living from Greatness program, through which he coaches clients to realize their dreams by connecting with their authentic, creative spirit. William explained that creativity can be broken down into levels, such as unskilled imitation, skilled imitation, low level derivative, high level derivative, innovative inventive, and genius. He said that at the level of imitation, you are copying and learning from outside of you, whereas at higher levels of creativity, you become more self-referenced.

►Audio Version:

Key Points Discussed: 

• 00:00 – The Secrets of Natural Success: Uncovering the Human Journey and Unleashing Your Genius
• 02:39 – Exploring Creative Development Training
• 04:41 – Exploring the Relationship Between Creativity and Success
• 07:21 – Exploring the Benefits of Creative Development for Success
• 12:12 – Exploring the Nature of Creativity and Genius
• 15:03 – Exploring the Journey of Self-Discovery and Transformation
• 17:54 – The Power of Focus: How My Focus Created My Reality
• 24:12 – Alchemical Reality Creation: Dispelling the Myth of Rock Bottom
• 26:54 – “The Power of Coaching: Transforming Lives Through Consciousness and Focus”
• 30:31 – Exploring the Fascination of Transformation and the Creative Condition of Human Beings
• 35:22 – The Power of Positive Vision: Moving Beyond Pain to Find Lasting Fulfillment
• 40:53 – The Benefits of Focusing on Positive Outcomes Rather than Pain
• 42:52 – Exploring the Power of Creative Development to Overcome Fear and Doubt
• 45:42 – The Purpose of the Ego and the Power of Oneness
• 48:58 – “How One Entrepreneur Used Creative Thinking to Thrive During the Pandemic”
• 51:27 – Connecting to the Super Conscious Place
• 53:49 – “The Power of Taking Responsibility: A Tip for Long-Term Gratification”
• 56:54 – Natural Success Academy and the Power of Intuition

How to Contact William Whitecloud:

• www.naturalsuccessacademy.com

 

About me:

My Instagram:

www.instagram.com/guyhlawrence/?hl=en

 

My website:

www.guylawrence.com.au
www.liveinflow.co

 

TRANSCRIPT

Guy (00:00):
Today my epic guest is William Whitecloud. I invited him on the show because I had a couple of random coincidences that once they happen multiple times, I realized they’re not a coincidence. So I dive into that on the podcast today. But anyway, I hadn’t heard of William, and due to these coincidences I’ve found, found out about him, and then went to his website and his website said, unleash your genius and master the human journey. And I wanted to dive in, obviously, where all that meant as well. Listen to a podcast and then invited William onto the show today. So I have no doubt you will get a lot out of it. If you enjoy the show, of course, please leave a comment if you’re watching this on YouTube or if you’re iTunes, Spotify, wherever it might be. I’m forever grateful as we connect on the online space. Also, if you’re new to my work, uh, we offer a free seven days of meditation, whether there’s a link below, you can grab that. It’s a great place to start, three short meditations a day, which will help you start to dive into the work. And of course, uh, we offer full immersive retreats and workshops all around Australia as well. So if that, any of that interests you, jump in, uh, below as well. Anyway, let’s go over to William Whitecloud. Enjoy.

Guy (01:29):
William, welcome to the podcast.

William (01:31):
Thanks, Guy. Thanks for having me. And hello everybody on the podcast.

Guy (01:36):
Yeah, I appreciate you coming on. Just a little backstory, um, I was in my local village a few, few months back and, um, my daughter ended up playing with another two-year-old daughter in by the post office. And, uh, and I got chatting to her mum, and her mum was there. So the daughter’s grandmother had never met them before. And we got chatting and they asked me what I did for a living. And the next thing you know, she lit up and said, oh, have you heard of William Whitecloud? And I was like, oh, I’ve heard the name, but not familiar. And she’s, she was a raving fan of your work. So when these synchronicities start to happen, it makes me wanna look into it. And then honestly, William, about two weeks later, I was running a retreat up here near Mount Warning, and I walked into the, the back storage room, and there’s a window there, and it had a small little poster of William Whitecloud, the Magician’s way in the storage cupboard. And I was like, that is no a, that is no accident. I’ve, his name is come up. So that’s what prompted me to reach out. I was like, I’ve really that this, I’m getting messages here from everywhere. So hence why you, you came on today.

William (02:45):
Well, that’s, that’s a, that’s a great story. Yeah. That’s how it happens. We, you know, if, if it happens once, it’s never gonna happen again. But if it happens twice, it’s always gonna happen again, right? So anyway, I’m very glad to be here and to meet you Guy. Uh, I know you talked to a lot of people and, um, very privileged to, to be your guest.

Guy (03:08):
I, and I always ask everyone the same question starting, is that if you were at a intimate dinner party and you sat next to a complete stranger and they started prodding you what you did, what would you say?

William (03:23):
Um, well, I, I’ve, I’ve, I, I’m, I get asked what I do often, right? And, and, um, I know how to answer that by now. Um, look, I’m, I’m, I’m a creative development trainer. I, I train people in, in creative development. And, um, you know what, what, what that means is that, um, the levels of creativity and academically, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s a bit of a new science. So it’s, it’s not that well established, but already there’s some kind of agreement that there levels of creativity and they delineated something like this. There’s, there’s a few more other answers to it, but just, I’ll just give you the basic delineations, which is unskilled imitation, skilled imitation, low level derivative, high level derivative, innovative, inventive, and genius, right? So you can see that, um, the ascending order, the way, the way those levels of creativity ascend, you become much more self referenced.

William (04:32):
So at, at the level of imitation, you, you, you’re copying and you’re listening to, and you’re observing, and you’re learning everything from outside of you, not nothings of your originates from within you. You know, so, so you borrow from the outside of you, and not only from other people and other things and that, but you borrow from the past, from, from, from your experiences as, as to guiding you on, on how to, how to operate in life. And then you, you ascend the, the levels of creativity and you start getting derivative, which means, now it’s partly you, but still partly drawing on your outer influences, your external influences and your past, et cetera. But one, once you start getting up into innovative, inventive, and genius, there, there is a diction, there’s a dictionary definition that defines genius as not as, as, as not having to learn anything outside of yourself, that, that what you do is, is not learned from anybody or anything outside of yourself.

William (05:35):
So if you, if you get like real, um, prodigies, like Jimi Hendrix say, um, he, he played sounds that had never been heard before, that he’d never copied from anybody. People now obviously copy him. A lot of people rob and trail a lot of guitarists copied him. Um, but he never copied anyone else. He created completely new sounds that, that he made up. And, and we all know, well, those of us my age anyway, know that, that, that, that Jimmy Hendrix even played the guitar in, in, in an unconventional way that, you know, other people don’t play chords that way and, you know, whatever. Right? And, and, and so that, that, that’s an example. And so, so the, the, the, the, the, the more creative you are, the more self-referential you are, funnily enough, believe it or not, right? So, so you see, so, so, so then further to that, what’s also observable, self-evident and can be demonstrated, um, and it’s a case I’m make in my book, secrets of Natural Success, is that the higher your level of cre creativity, the, the, the closer you get to genius, the more self-referential you are, then the more successful you are at whatever you undertake.

William (06:56):
And that’s success of any kind, right? It, it could be the achievement kind, it could be the material kind, it could be the money-making kind, but it could be the artistic kind, the relationship kind, the quality of life kind, the health. I think you’re interested in health. Um, and, and what whatever you’re involved in, you’re just going to be naturally much more successful the more creative you are in that sense, right? You know, and, and you, you mustn’t confuse it with IQ genius. Cause sometimes people say to me, I’m a genius. Technically I’m a genius. I’m Mensa and all that, but my life’s a screwed up <laugh>, right? You see, so we’re not talking about intelligent quotient in, in in that sense of, you know, the, the IQ sense of the term genius, right? The, the, the, the rational sense we’re, we’re, we’re talking about the self-referential senseen sense of the word. Um, and then you’re going to see that people on that level of creativity are very successful in, in what they undertake. And so that’s what I mean by creative development. Well, it’s, first of all, it’s what I mean by creativity. And I serve people being more creative in themselves so they can be more, um, successful in their lives.

Guy (08:15):
Amazing. So plain and simple, just, just, yeah. So just to repeat and get it back so I’m clear and the listeners then we, we are using creativity as the vehicle to find out creative genius or discover or, or allowed to come through more, which becomes the, the moment of where, like you say, it’s, it’s more self-taught. We’re not using others or leaning into, and we’re, we’re in the, we’re in the zone of genius, if you like. Would that be a, an assumption?

William (08:47):
No, it’s, it is, I, I dunno, I don’t think I, I don’t think you’ve got it like, in, in what you just said now that, that we are creativity to be, to become creative. Um, it, it, it, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a mode of operations, a way of operating whereby the way we operate, what we go for in life, we, we guided by ourselves, you know, and, and, and by, by ourselves internally, rather than be guided by external factors. Um, and, and also past experiences, um, you know, um, our beliefs and, and, and so forth. So, so that we come from an internal sense, uh, our own internal sense of, of, of reality of of, of what we are going for and realization, connecting dots that aren’t normally connected, because that’s the definition of creativity, really in, in a, in a sense. You, if you think about it, they say that creativity is the ability to connect dots that haven’t been connected before.

William (10:00):
So if you look at, if you look at a great artist like Andy Warhol, and you look at, at what he creates, and I, I, I’m, I’m in la so there’s, there’s a lot of art galleries here, top the top art galleries of the world, lacma, the LA County Museum of Art, or, or, or the Getty Museum. You go and you, you see these, um, artworks by Andy Warhol, for instance, you see, and, and, and you look at them and there’s the work of a genius. It’s, it’s, it’s unlike anything anybody else. Um, it’s a perspective that’s completely original that no nobody else has ever come to or used. It’s, it’s, it’s a, a very fresh, unique, original perspective that is un derived or un imitated from anything. It’s, it’s, it, it originates within the artist purely directly. And they use that, they take that, they take those dots, they’ve connected and, and use them to create whatever they’re creating. And, and, you know, so it’s, it’s, it is when it’s, is when you, um, for, you know, formulate your vision, derive from your own inner sense of vision, and then holding that vision also derive your own sense of orientation and how to go about that.

William (11:26):
And, and, and, you know, the, the way to create that, you see. And, and that’s, that’s that, that those internally, those dots coming into perspective and then being connected, um, that’s, that, that’s creativity.

Guy (11:42):
Right? Yeah. No, it may makes complete sense. I just want to clarify a couple of things as you speak, just to ensure I’m understanding in the right context, I guess, you know, cuz quite often as well over here with our work, sometimes people come in and think of creativity. Well, I’m not a creative person. I’m a math, I’m an accountant. Yeah. And I just do, you know, sit in front of a desk or, or whatever that might look like. And, and then we, uh, we can close ourselves off to that inner self that you speak of.

William (12:12):
Well, that, that’s right. That, and, you know, people think of it as creativity, as being artistic. And, you know, I used the example of Andy Warhol, and it’s unfortunate that I did that because that’s the cliche that it’s, that it’s artistic, right? But it’s a way that we can illustrate it. But on the other hand, you can, um, you can, you can apply it to anything pe people are creative in, in all different kinds of ways. I mean, you, you know, pe people are highly creative in sports. They, they, you know, pe people, you, you, you can play sports in, in, in a low level, um, creative way, or you can play sports in, in, in a genius way, right? Soccer or, or whatever it is. You, you, you, you know, and, and there are tennis players and all that. There are coaches, golfers, all of that.

William (13:05):
There are people that serve sports, people playing, using their genius, you know, using their high level creative function to, to, to operate, right? Um, rather than be in the remote mechanical process of, of, of those sports, you see, um, and, and they, they, you know, highly, highly effective. They’re literally are mindset coaches that, that they’re not teaching the person the mechanical aspects of the game. They’re teaching the person their creative relationship to the game so that their natural ability fires at its highest, uh, capacity. And then you, you see it in business like Steve Jobs or Richard Branson. Uh, you see it in authors like JK Rowling or, or whoever, right? Um, it, it, you know, the, the, the idea that nobody, um, you know, not everyone’s creative, that it applies to the arts. They, they’re all fallacies. I I can assure you that every person, everyone is genius.

William (14:11):
It it that there’s nobody on earth that is not a genius. Everybody can, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s not fixed. Like, like I think IQ possibly is, you know, the, the, the old sort of measurement of, of intelligence that the iq, you know, like you’ve got an IQ of a hundred or 130 or 150, that kind of rational mechanical computing power in your brain, that, that, that thing, that, that may be fixed. Um, jury’s still out on that, I believe, but, but it may be fixed. But, but, but, you know, super conscious creativity is not fixed. It, it, you know, it, it, it, you can, you set it through your conditioning and your experience and that you actually set it, but you can reset it very, very well relatively easily.

Guy (15:03):
Got it. Yeah. Yeah. And when did you start looking at this work on your journey, William? Cause I’ve, I’ve heard you speak about, um, you know, half of your life, you lived a certain way, and then you got to a stage where you, you really became ferocious to, to look into this work.

William (15:20):
Ferocious and <laugh>. Yeah. I became a beast.

Guy (15:22):
Uh, <laugh> a beast. <laugh> a

William (15:24):
Beast. Yeah. No, I mean, I had a shit first half of my life. Uh, you know, I’m not being a martyr or a victim or thing, but it’s just, just, you know, fact, right? Um, I, you know, cause, cause talking about genius and intelligence and, and all of that, um, I, I had an experience growing up where, you know, who, who knows why? Because he, I don’t think he did it with any of the other kids. My father picked on me and made me believe that I was stupid. Like really stupid. That I was a moron. And, uh, that, that, that I had no, um, you know, brains at all. And, you know, I, I sort of took that on and, and belief creates reality, you see, is if you’ve, if you’ve given some kind of belief, then that belief will, will perpetuate in your life.

William (16:21):
So that belief perpetuated that sense of self-perpetuated school. And I, and it was compounded by teachers that I had, that picked on me as well, and, and really singled me out. And for, I would call it bullying, you know, abuse really nowadays. We understand it as that and, and really humiliated me and, um, made me out to be really stupid. And, you know, so, so therefore terrified of using my, my own capabilities, my own intellectual capabilities and all that. And I act, I actually grew up believing that I was very stu well, that I was stupid. And, uh, I never as, as a consequence, I never finished high school. I hadn’t, didn’t learn much. I, you know, never read. I wasn’t well read or, yeah, I hadn’t read much at all in, in, in my life. Um, and, and so then I had this experience of myself, or sense of self and experience by the way that, that, that, that I was stupid.

William (17:25):
And, and, and so life was very tough for me because as, as an uneducated person with a, with a very big inferiority complex, you know, uh, I, I, you know, like my, my, my survival, um, my, um, certainty, my viability, shall I say in life, was to me very pre precarious as to how I could, um, survive and, and, and manage. Um, and, and it, and it was, it was very tough. And, and then, um, I had a, you know, it caused me to have a really rough life. And, and then I got very ill. And, um, nobody could diagnose the illness. Um, nobody knew what was wrong with me, but I just kept getting more and more sick. It, it, it, you know, and then, um, it, it had a lot of horrible, uh, physical and psychological symptoms. What, whatever the, the condition was.

William (18:28):
And then nobody knew. Nobody could help me. Nobody could treat me. And so then I used to self-treat myself. I used to self-medicate and, and using substances and drugs. And I had a lot of run-ins with, with, with, with hardcore drugs and dealing with addiction and, and all of that. And then, you know, descending down to practically my deathbed, literally really, I mean, I was, I was on my, on my deathbed and something incredible happened to me in which I, I recovered miraculously, no, no one helped me. No one, uh, treated me cuz nobody knew what was wrong with me. And I saw p you know, medical professionals or, and, and even alternative healers and everything all over the world. And no one could figure out what was wrong with me or offer a cure or a treatment or anything. And from a point of where I was at rock bottom on my deathbed, I, I, I, I recovered miraculously, I, I I, I revived and rebounded back to life and health very instantaneously.

William (19:42):
Um, and from from that, you see, from that experience, um, it’s a, it’s a bit of a story. And, and I don’t wanna take up the time of the interview here to tell the story. People can read about it in my book, natural Success, the Secrets of Natural Success. Cause I recounted the, the story there. Um, but the, the important thing was the conclusion that I came to, because I, something in me recognized that my focus has had changed, my focus had changed. And that clearly, I, I realized that my focus had been from the time I started getting sick, and this is over a 10 year period from the very beginning. And as the illness progressed, I became more and more obsessed with not being ill. And then in the end, fearing for my life, obsessed with not dying, and then started dying. You know, it, it, so, so the more I was focused on what I didn’t want, the more it came on in the end, I recognized that how, and, and as I say, people can read about it in the secrets of national success.

William (20:52):
But I recognized in the end that what changed was a, was my focus. I’m no longer focused on what, I didn’t want that negative vision. I didn’t have that negative vision anymore. And once that focus changed, my experience changed. Now, I had never studied personal development or, um, you know, creative development or spiritual development. I, I, I had no, no ideas, uh, about consciousness and how consciousness worked. But it absolutely dawned on me that my focus creates reality. And I didn’t understand how my focus creates my reality, but I knew that that’s what it was. That, that somehow my focus creates my reality. And, and, and so then I determined to learn how the hell this works, because yeah, you know, I, I, I’d been alive for 35 years or so by that time, right? And I figured life’s been pretty shit for me, and, uh, extremely shit, rarely and many, many times o oftentimes and, and whatever.

William (22:04):
And, and so I determined, well, if my focus creates reality, h how, how do I find out about it? How do I work it? How do I use it so that my focus allowed, and I wasn’t expecting to become successful and rich and, you know, whatever, but just how can I use it? Uh, this understanding of how my focus creates reality, just to be healthy, just to be sane, just, just to, just to be happy, to live a decent life to, to, um, you know, be just moderately, uh, to have moderate wellbeing in life. You know? And anyway, so then that led me to discover <laugh> that there’s a lot of knowledge about this in, in, in, in, in the world and in, in, in life. And that there’s a, there’s a huge lineage of, of this understanding of how your focus creates your reality. That, that, that humans have understood this for thousands of years.

William (23:09):
And, and, you know, practice this, this, um, ability of, uh, self-consciously and, and in, in a self-aware way using focus to create reality and to create the reality of your choice. And I mean, mainly that has been, um, uh, carried through, through the principles of, of alchemy, which most people are mystified by and imagine is, is an arcane kind of study. Maybe take it very literally that it’s these weirdos that sat there trying to turn, lead into gold with, with all of their equipment and all that in the middle ages and all that. But it’s, but it’s actually not. Al alchemy is our longstanding understanding, long standing understanding of how we create reality with our focus. And that reality follows focus where our attention goes. You know? So, so there, there goes the, the reality. So I, I’ve been a student of, of alchemy and, um, you know, uh, creating and creating reality for, for 30 years and a and a practitioner of it. And so that’s, that’s my origin story, guy

Guy (24:32):
<laugh>. Amazing. Incredible. I, I, I need to ask you like, cause I just think of people, you know, that I come across my world, like, did you need to go to rock bottom? I guess to then come out the other side? Because quite often we see people that have their challenges, uh, and like you say, continue to fixate and focus on the, the, the, the problems, not the solutions. And we, we perpetuate those problems even more like you spoke of then. Um, what allowed you to really shift the focus to be solution orientated and outcome orientated without slipping back to the, the old self. Cuz I, I, I see it so often here.

William (25:16):
Well, when you see that, the thing is, um, that, that’s another myth that I, I I, I’d really like to dispel because I often hear that is, oh yeah, but you went to rock bottom. So, you know, that’s, that’s what did it. But that’s why I’m here and that’s why others like me are here. So people don’t have to go to rock bottom. That, that they can just in a, in, in a normal, ordinary life, um, undertake a study of how consciousness works and how our creative nature works and use that for better results. So it’s like, as we were talking about before, Richard Branson didn’t have to go to rock bottom to become a genius businessman, genius golfers and, uh, tennis players, all that can be taught to be genius, golfers and tennis players, they, they don’t have to nearly die for that to happen.

William (26:15):
You see? So, so it’s, we, we can just do it out of, out of, out of choice, right? And the proof of that is, is I’ve taught thousands of people, and I work over my time in, over the last 30 years, I’ve worked very closely with hundreds of people, literally, literally hundreds, one-on-one for years. I, I, you know, like right now, I’ve got coaches, uh, I, I’m, I’m coaching people that have been with me for four or five years. I work with people over a long period of time. And those people were, were, were, were not people who are like in trouble, uh, hitting rock bottom or anything. They’re just people who recognized that the, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re limit. They’re, they’re, they limits to their ability to, to what, to create whatever they’re involved in, whether that’s business or art or whatever, right?

William (27:11):
And they, they’re just looking for a way there, there’s a sense in them that, yeah, there’s more to me. There, there, there, there is more. But I’ve reached the limits of, of what I can create, you know? And, and, and so they come to me and they’re not, as I said, they’re not on rock bottom. They’re not dying of some illness or something, but they’re just existentially dissatisfied, right? And they just go, yeah, you know, I’m, it’s, it’s good, but I, I know there’s more. And they come to me and then they learn how to expand, uh, you know, expand that using, using their consciousness, using, using their focus. And a really good example was this guy came to me a little while ago, not, not more than a few years ago, and he, he was a businessman, an entrepreneur, and he was making $3 million a year in, in his pocket after expenses and all that, that that’s where he has taken home from his business, about 3 million a year.

William (28:09):
And, but, you know, he was working 16, he, he was, well, he wasn’t unhealthy, anything like that. And he, he was actually very well, very healthy, very fit young guy and, uh, intelligent and hardworking. But that was his problem. He was working 16 hours a day and he was making 3 million. And he is going, how can I, how can I, you know, do better than this? Cause I’ve just reached the limit of what I’m doing. Um, and I’m working 16 hours. I can’t work more than 16 hours a day. And I swear to God this is true. He now works two hours a day and makes 30 million a year.

William (28:48):
Wow. You see? And, and, and so you, you know, it, it, it, it, it, it, it does happen that people, not all people, cuz some people hit rock bottom and crash and die, right? And sadly, but also for, for some people like myself at hit rock bottom, they, in a way forced to come to terms with themselves and, and reality and, and all of that. So you can see a, a, a big transformation in our lives, right? But it’s, but it’s not necessitated by desperation. Uh, and, you know, the most preferable way for it to be, uh, uh, come about is not, not through desperation, but just the desire to, to, to, to realize your own potential. And, you know, what, what can be done with that potential? In my own case, you see, what kept me going was what, what kept me going and still keeps me going, was that incredible turnaround, that miraculous, unbelievable turnaround from a, from a, from a shitty descent into, into hell and darkness.

William (30:02):
Cause you know, I’m not, not exaggerating, a again, I don’t want to be a, a victim and, and a martyr and all that I’m just telling the truth is, is like, when I hear people’s rock bottom stories and, you know, bad stories and all that, you know, it, it touches me and affects me. But I, but I, but I don’t hear stories where I go, wow, that’s, that’s worse than what I went through. You know? Um, and, and, and so to go from that really awful condition and experience to miraculously turn around to, to, to, to be well, to be well again, and, uh, you know, um, in, in every sense, emotionally positive and feel like I’ve got something going for myself, uh, from, from those depths of despair, I, I wasn’t that motivated, um, by the reversal and, and how good I felt and, and wanting to stay that good.

William (31:06):
I mean, I was, but I was much more fascinated. Something in me was triggered, was peaked. It was like, what the hell is this thing? And how the hell does it work? And, you know, I just absolutely intrigued and fascinated and, and I’ve remained fascinated for, for 30 years, <laugh>, right? Um, and, and you know, that’s why I write books to share my findings. Cuz that’s what I do. I, I just continue to refine my knowledge, find out more, find out on, on, on deeper levels and, and, and, and, and share that knowledge. Um, and, and in, in a way, for me, my life has changed. I’m, I’m blessed because I’ve been blessed with really good health since then. I’ve been blessed with, you know, uh, wealth and abundance in every sense. Like, you know, the, the, the fulfillment of doing great work, being pretty well off, um, great relationships, um, all of all of that, you know, so it, it, it, it’s a, it’s a fabulous reward, but it’s, it is not what motivates me.

William (32:17):
I don’t know, maybe I’m different than some people who, who find that their reward in life, how much money they’ll have, how much they’ll be loved, and all that, which are beautiful things don’t, don’t get me wrong. But it’s not what I go for. Like, like the thing that drives me like crazy is getting to the bottom of, of this, um, I would call it like reality of, of, of, you know, of, of the creative condition of human beings. Because we are supremely creative organisms. We are creating machines. And if people only knew that they create, you create everything that’s happening in your life. And, and, and the, the more, the deeper down the rabbit hole of this work that you go, the more true you, you, you realize that to be is that you creating everything based on where your attention is pure and simple.

William (33:20):
So you, you know, you learn that, that, that you are creating machine, you’re creating everything. As Berti Spalding said, he said, it is said that we succeed at everything we undertake. And when we undertake failure, we succeed at that too. Now, you don’t undertake failure self-consciously. No, I don’t, don’t think many people do. I don’t think many people go said about to fail. But, but you know, there’s something almost intentional about failure when, when you, when you see it structurally, right? And, and, and, and from the, the, the point of view of, of focus that, that we are beasts. We are creating machines, and it’s our attention that is, that is creating. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it is an incredible realization, and particularly when you start using it

William (34:13):
To affect reality, when you start using it to be the predominant creative force in your own life, which means that the way your life turns out is how, how you determine it, how you shape it, how you decide it, rather than that you a victim of circumstances of the economy, of other people’s attitudes. You know, the weather, what, what, whatever, all of all of the conditions outside of you, the average person, their life is herded and shaped by that, by circumstances when it need and be. Because you, you can be the, the, the, the, you know, the, as I say, the predominant creative force in your own life. You can’t be the absolute creative force in your own life then, then you’d be God, right? But, but, but you can be the predominant creative force in your own life where you, you can learn to, to, to focus in a way that reality has no choice but to turn out the way you want it to be.

Guy (35:22):
And that’s extremely powerful. When I, when I listen to you put it like that, William, it’s, you know, it, who wouldn’t want that at the end of the day? But I think, like, even for myself, for a, a large part of my life, I wasn’t even aware that was possible. I didn’t even, it didn’t even occur to me that you could go in this direction. You know? I had to get knocked around in my own life a little bit to start really wanting to look at the, all this kind of work and these principles and start to actually incorporate them in my life and see what, what showed up. But for me, it was a very scary thought though, as well. At the same time, um, I, I don’t know if you, if you find that on, on this journey for people, and that, that’s why I was always curious about the pain first. You know, they say the pain pushes and television pulls, and as we, we, we, we get excited by a, a future self and start to really, uh, invest in that, then reality can happen.

William (36:22):
Yeah. But, you know, that’s a terrible motivation, pain, you know, and getting away from pain. Um, that absolutely, that, that’s what we call a negative vision. You see that, that what, what, what motivates you in life is what you wanna get away from. And most people don’t realize how negative their vision is. They just, they just want a lot of money. Or, or they, you know, they’re all classic thing. They are the soulmate, the twin flame. I want my twin flame, I want my soulmate, and you know, I want money. All these sorts of things. And they genuinely, uh, I don’t wanna mock anybody. Cause people genuinely feel that’s what they want. Little do they realize unconsciously it’s driven by this insecurity, the financial insecurity, their own loneliness, their desperation or, or, or whatever, right? And, and that’s a terrible motivation cuz the power, the attention is still on the negative condition, right?

William (37:18):
And, and, and so you learn to be motivated. You learn to discover the, the most powerful and sustainable, um, condition, creative condition is gonna be created by the realization that you have a heart that you, uh, are pure creative spirit connected to through to, to everything, through all time and space. And that paradoxically, even though you one with everything, you also very unique. You, you have a unique nature. You have a, a unique purpose on earth. You have a unique mission on earth. You have a unique expression, and you have gifts, talents, and abilities that are designed to support that expression and that mission. Right? And when, when, when, when you get in touch with that, then you find a higher and stronger motivation than your pain. Pain is a terrible motivation. It’ll, you know, it gets people off their asses. Make my mistake. But long term people don’t get further. I’m just gonna do a demonstration.

William (38:29):
Um, sorry, I just had to grab a few elastic bands to demonstrate this. You see, cause you see, this is your pain here. This is your pain and this is you wanting, this is your vision. You wanna go over there and make money and get your life together and get a relationship and all that. But born of your pain, you see? And now you’re going there, well, the attention is still here, right? And so then it’s, you know, your subconscious mm-hmm. Is focused on that. And it’s gonna pull you back. And that’s why you see people stuck in their lives or their lives oscillate forwards and backwards. They don’t really ever exit that matrix that they’re in. You see, this elastic band is the borders of the matrix that you are in. You are in that matrix, and you tug this way, you tug that way, but you’re not out of the matrix.

William (39:22):
You’ve gotta get out of that matrix outside this rubber band outside. And, and what does that is positive vision is when you connect with your higher nature, your true nature, your true purpose, your heart, the things that you’re inherently, um, involved with in life, connected to that really actually matter to you, right? And you find that, well then you have found that you, you know, the, the, you found love, you have found, the thing that is, is, is is higher than pain, is stronger than pain is permanent and lasting and keeps you on a permanent and lasting track. And, and I, I I, I, you know, if I, if I can use myself as as that kind of example, because from that rock bottom, I never went back to that rock bottom. My life has been on a trip, an up and up trajectory for, for 30 years.

William (40:18):
Yeah. You know, I reach plateaus, uh, maybe I go back here and there and, um, whatever. But, but generally the trajectory of my life is, is, is on, you know, just on the up and up or all the time. And it’s, it’s because I’ve found something far more interesting than, than my pain that, you know, far more motivating than my pain, to be honest. I really mean this and, and people that, that I know and work with and that I teach and, and, and empower, and that they’re really not interested in their pain. It exists and whatever. But it, it, it just doesn’t matter. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s there. And we don’t, we don’t, we don’t mess with it. We, we, we don’t need to fix it, right? We, we don’t pay attention to it. We involve ourselves in what matters to us in a much more compelling, uh, motivation, leading to much more positive outcomes in life that then heal us at the same time without us even trying, you know, we just become more and more healed. Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s, that’s, that’s part of message is that, is that pain is a, is a, you understand it, it get, gets people off their ass. But long term, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a very dysfunctional, um, motivation that doesn’t really take people anywhere, just keeps them locked really in, in the all beliefs. They’re all conditions, et cetera.

Guy (41:56):
No, I hear you. Yeah. I, I couldn’t agree more. And yeah, you know, just listening to you and reflecting on my own journey of, of wanting to, I, you know, listen to my heart, connect with that higher intelligence more and live through, purposefully, meaningfully and, and focused, like you say, attention. But what I found was that there, there was, there were points of wobble along the way where, you know, it felt so strong in my heart, but then the old conditioning would arise and think, oh, maybe you’re not worthy. Maybe you shouldn’t be doing this yet, you know? And the fears arise. And, and I found that I needed to find courage to step in and actually start to, to get that momentum and leave that the old stuff behind and not even focus on it. But there was still a point in my life where I wanted to flip back Sure. Where it was, it was there, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

William (42:52):
Well, you know, I, I understand that the, the illusion is very strong and, and it, it never leaves, right? And, and the illusion is very strong. And, and when you, in illusion, you are subject to very heavy negativity, right? And, um, fears and doubts and reservations and all of that. Um, and, and you experience yourself as limited. Um, you experience yourself as separate and you experience yourself as, as powerless. And, and then you do need those, you need those, what I call false energies, confidence, courage, all of that, right? You, you need that. And again, they, they, they, they, they are not inherent powers. They, they sort of like artificial stimulants, if you like, really? Right? The, the, the, the, you see, and, and this is why creative development is awesome, because it introduces you to your genius, to your high level creative function and perspective.

William (44:04):
And, and then what we do, what we have is the tools and the ability to shift into our high level creative function, into our high level creative perspective, into our genius perspective, into the part of us that truly is not making it up. And it’s not just theory. The part of us that’s truly connected to everything through time and space, that is one with everything that is not limited, that is not powerless, is not separate like we won. You know? So, so the ability to connect with your super conscious genius and then have that perspective then neutralizes your low level consciousness perspective, right? Your, your, your egoic, um, sense of separation, limitation, powerlessness, um, you know, fears, doubts, reservations, what, whatever, right? Um, when, when you, you know, because when, when you, when you see it from the perspective of your own super conscious, genius, from the, from, from super conscious perspective, those, those low level doubts, fears, all of that, they, they, they, they, your belief system, they your belief system, right? And your belief system is exists for a purpose. Your ego exists for a purpose, right? It’s a lot of people don’t understand this. What the ego really is, your, your ego is your sense of individuality, right? It’s, it’s a construct that it, it, it’s a mechanism that, that creates a construct, which is the idea of you as an individual that’s separate from everything else.

William (45:43):
And it’s a good thing. People hate the ego, but the ego is a good thing because it gives us our individuality. It exists for a purpose. Otherwise, we would have no sense of, of ourselves. Uh, we would have no individual sense of existence. We’d be like, uh, you know, a colony of ants or bees that the hive that the queen has the mind, and then we all just go out like robots and do whatever, you know, go and defend the perimeter, go there for food. We, we’d have no free choice. We’d have no will, we’d have no independent taste, expression, anything like that. We wouldn’t be human beings without an ego, right? And, and, and what the ego does, it gives us that individual sense of existence. It makes us feel like we or we, and we are not connected to anything else. We separate from everything.

William (46:33):
And our belief system creates that, that that separation, right? And you, you know, it, it’s, it is good, good. It, it, it serves us very well in feeling like, you know, I am me. I feel very me compared to you. I look at you there and I go, yeah, I’m not that guy. Um, I’m me, and he’s not me. I’m me. Right? But, but that’s an illusion, particularly in a sense of our, you know, oneness and, and our, our power and, and, and, and, and, and, and creative capability. We are not limited. We are not limited. We are not, um, separate, right? And, and so the ability to go into the point of view that knows that truth for real, not as like a fancy, you know, false affirmation. I am one, I am one, I am rich. I am, that’s false bullshit, right? No, for real.

William (47:30):
So you occupy that’s outside of yourself, and that neutralizes the illusion, then you don’t need courage. You don’t need confidence. You don’t need these false, uh, stimulants, you know? I mean, I, I just, I just spend 30, uh, not 30 days. I just spend seven days with my top 30 clients in, in a, in a retreat that I held for them up here in, in California, in the, in the Sierra Nova and the Sequoia National Park, right? Beautiful. Just stunning. And people were sharing their experiences. And one lady, really, I mean, every, everyone had stories that could just blow you away. But the one woman in particular had this story that was just absolutely remarkable because she, her businesses predominantly were in, in the, in the hospitality industry. And when the pandemic hit, her business partner, chickened out, shut himself and stole the money from the bank account, drew it all out, didn’t take half.

William (48:35):
Like, I’m a 50% shareholder, so therefore I’ll take half. Took all the money, all the operating com money of the whole company, of, of all the enterprises in a business where they were being forced to close, being forced to close, right? So pubs and restaurants predominantly being forced to close shut down, right? And this guy, he’s in his pain body, he’s in his fear body, right? In, in that, right in that egoic orientation, that that sense of limitation reservation. I can’t survive this. I gotta just steal this money, stash it away because I can’t survive, right? And, and leaving, leaving my client with these businesses, with no operating cash, now operating money in an environment where they’re being legally forced to close down for years, right?

William (49:34):
She, however, stepped into her super conscious vibration, self, whatever you wanna call it, like into her genius, where she saw reality from the perspective of her higher self, her her genius, her creative self, right? And, um, wasn’t in fear, didn’t panic all that, right? And instead determined to keep every business open and keep every single person employed. And by the way, that was her motivation, you see, was to be in service to the people in our companies that, that, that, that work for her. So her motivation wasn’t to protect her money, to make money, anything. It was just to protect the people, like to, to, to keep them in jobs and, you know, so, so in service to, to, to these hundreds of people that she looked after. And, uh, they, she got them all together, focused them, got them into their, you know, creative minds and, and them on what the opportunity was.

William (50:51):
You know, what possibilities, what dots could they connect and, and stay alive. And they made more money in the pandemic with the businesses closed than they ever made with the businesses open. They did all kinds of things, you know, deliveries. I, I, I won’t bore you with all the different things they did, but they came up with millions of things. Well, not millions, you know, but dozens of things to do to keep services to happening, to keep making money, cooking classes, all just all sorts of things. All sorts of things. Uh, and, you know, they just invented all of these things to do that actually ended up making them more money than ever. Now they’ve got so much money, they’re building a brewery, you know, I’m, I’m, I’m serious, right? And, and you see, you compare that to other people that just go, oh, we have to shut down. Oh, this is a disaster. Oh, this is this, it’s all coming from outside, right? We’re all screwed. We’re all, you know,

Guy (51:56):
Incredible, incredible, thanks

William (51:59):
On that true, true story. Yeah, true story.

Guy (52:03):
Yeah. Amazing, amazing. Look, where are we coming to the end of the, the show, William? Um, but just a couple of questions for you before we wrap up. One is, what would you suggest for people today? Obviously they can check out your work and your book and, and everything else, but is there like a tip or something that somebody could start with to contemplate about starting to connect to that larger aspect of the themselves, that super conscious place?

William (52:31):
Well, yeah, you can, you, you see that the thing is, um, you know, and, and no disrespect to you, no disrespect to you, and I’m not saying anything about you and about your question, I’m just saying that this happens to me in interviews, not that you’re doing it, but this is what people do to me in interviews. At the end of the interview. They go, I, what, what’s a, what’s a takeaway that you can give my, what’s a takeaway you can give my viewers or my listeners that, you know, can help them? You know, when, when, when, when, when they, you know, negative or in pain or in trouble, or, you know, what, what, what she can you give them to just give them some hope and make them feel better. And, you know, my, my answer is not much, right? Because that is temporary.

William (53:23):
If I give somebody that, I’m giving them a fish, I’m just giving them a fish, and they’ll eat the fish today, but they’ll be hungry tomorrow, you know? And, and they sit here listening to that radio show, that broadcast, whatever, and they get tips every day and they still listening because they never went anywhere. They didn’t get a tip that goes, oh yeah, okay, I don’t have to sit by the radio anymore listening for tips. Right? I’m cool. I’ve got it right? And so, so here’s my tip. And, and it’s, you see, people are very interested in short-term gratification in life. So the tip I’ve got isn’t short-term gratification, it’s long-term gratification. It’s, it’s study this, it’s study. You don’t have to study with me. Um, you can, and I’ve, I, I can make it easy for you cuz I’ve done 30 years of study and I can give it to you on a plate, right?

William (54:18):
But you don’t have to study with me. But, but, but study, know, know that you create your own reality. Know that you create your own reality. Take how’s my tip? Take responsibility for what’s going on in your life. Cause you creating it and, and, and undertake. Cause if you do, it will happen. It will happen for you. You will find the way, it’ll come to you if, if you take responsibility and, and go, yeah, this is my creation. The more you own that and, and, and, you know, um, understand or, or just acknowledge or even use it as a, as a premise. You don’t even have to believe it, but, but use it as a, as a working hypothesis that you creating it. What, what, what’s going on for you? Take responsibility for that. And, and, and, and, you know, that also then gives you the power and then undertake to figure out how you can change that.

William (55:20):
Because you can change that. You can change that in simple practical ways. You can. But, but then also they’re very, you know, long term ultimately metaphysical ways in which you can change, change that. And so, to me, you see, that’s my tip, is take responsibility. Just, just stop and take responsibility. Don’t try and get away and get out of what you are in. That’s reactionary, right? That’s short term. You’re just gonna be back there tomorrow. Take responsibility. Don’t be short term, take responsibility. Just stop and go. Yeah. How reality is, whether it’s bad, whether it’s medium or even if it’s good, you can still take responsibility for it and become the power, the, the predominant power in your own life. Learn how to change things so that reality reflects your highest good, your wellbeing and, and highest good. Take responsibility and undertake to understand how that works, because it’s just an intention.

William (56:24):
And if you make that intention, it’s gonna come because I made that intention and then lessons came my way and teachers came my way. Mm-hmm. And, and, and all of that. Of course, I will offer, you know, what I do and my books and courses because they’re very convenient. They, it’s all on a plate. My 30 years of learning trial and error experience is just there on a small bus board for you to, um, pick, pick up and, and eat. You know? And, and so that, that would be, that would be my, that would be my advice, really.

Guy (56:58):
Yeah. beautiful. Thank you. No, it’s perfect. This is, and it’s perfect way to wrap up the show today, William. Um, I’ll make sure the links for your website and your work, uh, in the show notes below, whether people are watching this on YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, they just need to pause if you’re listening, and it links to below if they want to check out your work more. William, um, can you say the URL out loud as well for people

William (57:21):
To

Guy (57:21):
Find out more?

William (57:22):
My website, the URL for my website is natural success academy.com. Natural success academy.com. But if you google William White Cloud, you know, you you, you’re gonna be taken to my website. Um, absolutely not difficult. Yeah. But, but thanks guy. Uh, great conversation. Um, um, it was a bit of a one way conversation. I apologize for that, but you got me talking you to blame.

Guy (57:51):
No, that’s perfectly, perfectly fine. You know, I’m very aware. I, I want to invite people on and, and give space for people to talk. That’s, that’s worth there. Then I, I find as a podcaster, nothing irritates me more when the podcaster keeps jumping in and, and, uh, you know, so I like to listen. You have a lot to share, William, and I really appreciate you coming on today, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. And thank you, thank you for all that you do, and, um, it was, it was great to have you on

William (58:17):
Thank you. And thanks for what you do. Uh, you’re obviously, you know, um, aggregating all the knowledge out there, the, the powerful knowledge out there and getting it out. So, I mean, yeah, thanks for your good contribution. I really appreciate it. And thank, thanks so much for inviting me and thanks everyone for hearing me out and, and, and listening and, uh, all, all power and, um, happiness to you, to all of you.

Guy (58:46):
Thank you.