Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Guy (00:00):
Hey, beautiful souls guy here, and welcome to my podcast and my awesome episode today is Marty Wiki. Now Marty is a specialist in neuro feedback. I was very intrigued with this topic because we’re actually bringing in a scientist over from Germany in our Portugal retreat in July, 2023, this year, where we will be measuring the changes within the brain, within the heart rate variability and within the nervous system as well, which is all fascinating. And, and Marty reached out. And, uh, not only is Mai an expert in neurofeedback, his own personal journey is phenomenal. And we spend most of the podcast, of course, actually talking about the emotional aspects and his journey of why he’s become so passionate about meditation to this day. But not only passionate about meditation, uh, actually passionate about helping people. And how by measuring the brain and seeing in, uh, you can start to work out the impacts of trauma and different elements of the brain that are not firing correctly or maybe are not serving us as well as they could.

Guy (00:59):
And how neurofeedback can be an integral part in actually improving our brain capacity, which of course leads into our emotions and feeling better and so forth. Fascinating conversation. If you are listening to this or watching on YouTube, please hit the, like, subscribe buttons, comment, let me know, engage in the conversation. I reach thousands and thousands of people every week, especially on my iTunes and Spotify. But, um, it just goes into cyberspace. So when you engage, it means a lot to me. And that, that way we can continue to get these messages out there. Cause I feel these conversations had extremely important. Anyway, that’s it. If you wanna find out more about me, our free meditations, our Portugal retreat, or the retreats you’re holding in Australia is all links below to that. Enjoy this conversation with Marty. It’s awesome. Much love. Beautiful. We’re recording. Marty, welcome to the podcast.

Marty (01:58):
Thank you Guy. Really appreciate being here with you.

Guy (02:01):
First question I ask, if you were on an airplane next to a complete stranger and they asked you what you did for a living, what would you say?

Marty (02:09):
Uh, I’d say I, um, you know, that’s the elevator speech that we’re all deadly afraid of. I would say, um, you know, I I fix people’s brains. Yeah. And then from that there’s a lot <laugh>.

Guy (02:27):
Yeah. How do we, how do we then end up with a damaged brain in the first place

Marty (02:32):
If it needs to be, oh my gosh, many, many, many contributing factors. Um, you know, genetic factors. There’s ancestral trauma. So trauma that has gotten passed down in our dna. There’s, um, you know, developmentally when even when we’re in the womb, we are being, our, our brains are being formed by our environment, by our mother’s stress level, by what’s going on in her life. And then after we’re born, you know, the brain is neuroplastic and it is being, uh, modified by the environment. So if we, if we are in an environment that is challenging or stressful, or provokes fear, particularly safety for a infant, uh, that begins to set up certain pathways in the brain that may ha, may precipitate problems later on in life. There’s something called the ACEs score. ACEs is a, um, acronym stands for Adverse Childhood Experiences. And it’s just 11 questions from, uh, being abused to witnessing abuse, to being in a household of alcoholism, to being neglected.

Marty (03:45):
And there’s a direct correlation between the higher the ACE’S score, the more likely that person is gonna experience pretty bad consequences. Everything from, uh, criminal behavior to drug or alcohol addiction to cardiovascular disease. So, um, so these, you know, we are, we are being modified by our environment all the time. And you say, you know, how, how does brain injury co Well, you know, there are obviously overt brain injuries from a concussion or a blow to the head, but do, it’s the developmental injuries that cause the most problems. And by that I mean, you know, uh, whether it’s, um, witnessing trauma, uh, being, you know, stressed or, um, neglected, all those things produce problems in the brain. Wow. In San Francisco, you know, there’s death row down there in one of the prisons and something, 95% of those prisoners have overt brain trauma or brain injury.

Marty (04:44):
You know, that’s not to say, you know, to blame their behavior on, uh, the brain injury, but certainly there’s a correlation. And even, uh, you know, prisoners who don’t necessarily get to death row, many of them have injury, whether it’s from a concussion or from drug or alcohol use, which will also cause, um, brain injury. So these things, you know, I realized many years ago were, were factors that influenced our development. And that, that, you know, when we talk about rehabilitating people and helping people to awaken spiritually, you gotta get the brain working right first. The brain has to be able to process the information, and you have to get out some of these old patterns that get stuck in there. We call them pathologically stable patterns that keep recreating our old behaviors that we can’t seem to break free of. And that, so when I say I fix brains, that’s what I do.

Marty (05:42):
I, I, I look at the brain, I look at the problems, um, I, you know, check out where, where do you want to go in your life? And then we sort of take aim at that and the, the brain is malleable. We can, we can push it this way or that way. No, I shouldn’t say push, but guide. And, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a process that’s happening all the time. 10, 15 years ago it was relatively unknown, but now we know the brain is plastic. It is always modifying itself to the experiences that we go through.

Guy (06:16):
Well, so in essentially, if we then start to improve the hardware, the software will run smoother.

Marty (06:23):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the, you know, the software and the hardware in, in this sense, um, are not that divergent. Um, it takes good hardware for that software to run. Right. And vice versa, you know, if you get hit in the head with a, with a golf club or a baseball bat, your hardware and software aren’t gonna be working right for a while until that injury is, um, uh, healed up. So I, I hardly ever separate the two anymore. It, to me, it’s the same thing.

Guy (06:59):
Okay. Yeah. And, and through your experience over the years, then when you speak of neuroplasticity, cause I’ve often hear, you know, the HEBs low, um, neurons are fire together, wire together, and what don’t fire together unwire. Yeah. So essentially then, is what you’re saying is, is that if we are, are able to, I guess I always think of, um, bobsleigh tracks. Yes. You know, and if you keep sliding down and carving out the same one, the next thing you know, you’ll slip straight down there on the bobsleigh

Marty (07:28):
Exactly. And, um, you know, the problem is the older we get, the, the deeper those grooves, you know, the more times that bobsled runs down those grooves, it’s gonna get deeper and d and harder to get out of. There’s a network in the brain called the default mode network. And it’s useful. We don’t ha the default mode network, um, organizes the brain so that we don’t have to think about everything. We don’t have to think about brushing our teeth, about driving our car, but it’s automatic. And at the same time, we don’t have to think about those automatic things. We don’t think about our behavior, we don’t think about our judgments, we don’t think about our attitudes because the default mode just says, look, this is the way it’s always been. This is the way you’re always gonna do it. So breaking out of that default mode is very important.

Marty (08:14):
And that’s the grooves. Uh, when we look at people like advanced meditators, Tibetan meditators, guess what? Their default mode quiets down. And, and we can actually teach the brain to do that in meditation as well. It quiet then what does that mean? Well, it means you become more present. You become less, uh, driven by the patterns and the default mode networks and all this wiring in the brain. But there, that’s, that’s an absolute truth that, um, the more you use these pathways, the more intact they’re gonna become. And that includes pathways that have to do with love and compassion and pathways that have to do with anger and hate. The more they, um, used, the stronger they get.

Guy (08:58):
Yeah, for sure. So a question that just popped in there, because, um, I think about trauma as well, that’s being held in the body and, you know, there’s an amazing book. The Body, the Body Knows the score, I believe keeps

Marty (09:11):
The score best handle Coke. Excellent. Look. Yeah.

Guy (09:14):
Yeah. And, um, so how much then are we working with the brain to influence the body? Because if, if trauma’s held within the body as well as the brain, cause we, you know

Marty (09:25):
Yes.

Guy (09:26):
I I there’s a question in there somewhere, <laugh>.

Marty (09:28):
Well, yeah, no, there’s no doubt. And what I found over 40 years is we do both. We, we, I believe in body work. I went to chiropractic university 35 years ago. I’m not a chiropractor, but I, I firmly believe in that type of body. But I also believe in, you know, acupuncture, acupressure, deep massage, somatic work, trauma relief. I mean, all these are very important cuz the b as as you said, the title of the book says it all, the body keeps the score. It does every cell. So, um, it, it, we can speed up the trauma, uh, recovery process quite well by adding some kind of body work at the same time, getting the brain structures to reorganize themselves. Yeah. Correct. Now the brain structures re you know, like we get, uh, people post stroke and, um, you can wake up certain areas of the brain with this, but I always want those people to be getting physical therapy or occupational therapy too at the same time, cuz Yeah, we’re, you know, the stroke isn’t happening out here in the body. Right. It’s happening in this case, in the left, left arm. It’s up here in the, uh, sensory motor ridge. And so we can get this part of the brain working better at the same time train, uh, the body to make the connections better.

Guy (10:53):
Got you. Got you. Where does your passion come into all this? Because you’re very passionate about the work, and I was listening mm-hmm. <affirmative> to a little, um, a a radio interview of you yesterday while I was cooking, actually just getting ready for today. And, um, and you spoke of that you got up 3:30 AM to meditate daily. Yeah. And, and I, and my instantly, and I can relate to that, you know, I, I, I’m, I’m not three 30, I’m, I’m caught a past five.

Marty (11:19):
Okay. <laugh>,

Guy (11:21):
But

Marty (11:21):
Go to bed earlier. Yeah.

Guy (11:22):
I, I gotta, I do go to bed early. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I remember if I’d hear that 10 years ago, I think, what, what, what is this guy? Nuts, you know, like <laugh>,

Marty (11:31):
That’s what what my wife thinks, <laugh>,

Guy (11:34):
But there’s clearly a deep passion and realize your own self realization around the work and, and why you do that and to have a practice like that. So I’m fascinated,

Marty (11:45):
Really. Okay. You want me to tell you how that started?

Guy (11:48):
Please. Why? To give people context to why, and then even then why we do that today?

Marty (11:52):
Yeah. Yes. I’m, there’s no doubt I’m on a mission. And then you’ll see why in a few minutes here. So I was, um, born and raised in New York, outside of New York City, and, uh, in my adolescence, uh, very young actually, I started using drugs and alcohol. And by the time I was 16 or 17, I was into hard drugs, um, got addicted, uh, very bad. My father died in the middle of all this. And, um, I was in and out of, uh, seven drug and alcohol chemical dependency treatment centers, none of which really did anything except made me a little more crazy. And, um, finally when I was 21 years old, uh, October, 1978, I had a spiritual experience. I, you know, people say, oh, what was it? Well, I surrendered let go. And, and I know you’ve had similar experience. And in that, in a very short time, maybe as far as I could tell, it lasted 90 seconds.

Marty (12:49):
There was a complete turnaround, a sort of a sudden, uh, awakening that, um, there is a presence here and the presence is here, and it’s in here, and it’s in everybody. And that presence is guiding this whole thing we call creation alarm. And at that point in my life, I had overdosed several times, ended up in ICUs on pumps and ventilators and all that. And so when this, when this hit me, I, I, I realized that I had been, you know, not that I’m anybody special or unique, but I had been spared I i, for many intense and purposes, I, I could have passed away several times by the time I was 21. And I kind of accepted that back then. But anyway, so the spiritual awakening happened, and, um, I was, I was, didn’t have a home at that point, but I, I realized very, very quickly that I had to give back.

Marty (13:50):
I had to do something to share what I experienced. You know, this is how many of, uh, the different, um, treatment processes get started. Somebody has a profound experience and they wanna share it with the world. And I, I didn’t, you know, I didn’t get the Messiah complex or anything, but I knew I had something that if it, if it could heal me in my life, it could, it could heal other people. So, um, I went back to school, was able to get back into university. I, you know, even with all the drug use, I still have a good intact intelligence. And, um, I ended up in Georgia attending chiropractic university. Um, and I, I, I only stayed there about two years. I felt like it wasn’t quite for me, kind of like you, I was more towards this internal process. And I, and I went to a meditation retreat center.

Marty (14:45):
I was raised Catholic. I went to a Benedictine monastery, but I decided I liked the yoga philosophy, um, you know, more than I did the, the Benedictine rule, which was pretty rough. So, um, I lived at this, uh, ashram slash retreats meditation retreat center, and the spiritual director, who was my mentor, my guru, uh, was a disciple of parm Hunts Yonda, the fellow who wrote Autobiography of a Yogi. And he was the last living disciple. And, um, he used to start work at 2:00 AM So I, I started sort of getting in this habit of getting up very early to meditate. And there was, there was this beautiful meditation hall there, and I would go there, uh, on my own. And, you know, I know meditation is a challenge for many people, you know, oh, I, I can’t, you know, I, I hear many things like, I can’t meditate.

Marty (15:42):
My mind wouldn’t shut up. Well, that, sure, that happened in the beginning, but then, you know, if you, if you, that’s why it’s called a practice, you suddenly hit something, which I did in the first year of, of living there. And meditation became this profound attraction for me, um, where I would just sit and the process would start and happen by itself. So, you know, 40 years ago I started this habit of getting up at three 30, sometimes four, and meditating for a couple of hours a day. And, uh, it’s never left me, my, my entire life really revolves around that. It’s not, you know, I like to say my, my life revolves around my meditation versus meditation revolves around my life. Um, because it is so rewarding, it’s so powerful. It’s, it’s a communion, you know, with this divine presence, um, that is incredibly, um, healing.

Marty (16:43):
And, and, you know, I, I like to keep myself as clear as possible for the clients that I work with. And, uh, I think it’s really important for, for practitioners, and I’m, and I know you know this, to be as centered, as clear as spiritual as they can be in their own being, because that is what really brings the healing process to their clients. And, you know, I’ve worked with tens and tens of thousands of people across the spectrum. And, um, I do, I, I still teach meditation. We have a, one third of our office is actually a meditation hall, but, uh, I just can’t say enough about meditation as a practice, uh, for, you know, sort of finding our own sense of spirituality and then allowing that to come out from us and manifest

Guy (17:32):
Incredible, thank you for sharing.

Marty (17:34):
Yes, yes.

Guy (17:35):
When you had that awakening, would you have found yourself, do you think, at the meditation school at some stage, if you hadn’t had had it? Because quite often it’s challenging, isn’t it? Because the, the, the biggest challenge I’ve found is I started having these experiences and they were, they were, uh, accelerating. And it, and it was making me realize that, you know, we are much more than what we’ve bought into, into the, the physical aspect of ourselves. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And you wanna share it with the world. You, you, but only if people are ready to hear it. Of course, yes. You know, you, you, and, and, and it’s like, how do I, how do I ignite the fire in that person? Because you can, you can feel so compassionate for the pain or the suffering that they’re in, in that moment. It like, oh, if you just could just peak two, two degrees to the left and, and, and you’re, you’re there, you know, kind of thing. And, and it was a struggle. That’s

Marty (18:35):
A, that’s a great challenge. And, um, you know, honestly, I would not have lived much longer had I not had that spirit. It’s like, okay, you know, I, I needed the baseball bat, you know, like, it’s like the, the wand and there’s the baseball bat. Well, at that point it was the baseball bat. Wake up <laugh>. And, um, so, but you know, much of this is destiny. If, if we have a spiritual teacher and we’re truly, um, you know, we’re sincere in our hearts, we will, they will come to us, we will find them. You know, when the disciple is ready, the teacher appear. That’s absolutely true. But, you know, and I, and I understand what you’re saying about, you know, you and what I found, because when I had that spiritual experience, and I had many, many others after that, you know, I wanted to go out and tell you, Hey, you know what, you are God <laugh>.

Marty (19:26):
Well, this was in North Georgia, <laugh>. This is, you know, you’re the most Australian, but North Georgia is pretty rural hillbilly country. And, uh, that didn’t go over real well. Finally, my spiritual teacher said, you know, keep your mouth quite, just be, just be that awareness, that presence. That’s the the greatest thing you can do for people. There was a spiritual author, uh, author of spiritual books, uh, Joel Goldsmith, and he said, you know, it may not be the clients that come to you for healing that get this consciousness from you may be the person you walk past down the street. It may be the person at the checkout count. That’s where the healings may really occur. You don’t know. But the point is, stay in that consciousness and it will have this effect on other people. You can’t make it. You can’t take somebody and wake them up. It is, it’s a natural process that’s gonna be different for everybody. But what we can do is stay centered in ourselves and be as clear as we can in ourselves. And that will affect the people around, you know, and then they even say it’ll affect your family, your ancestry, bow, backwards and forwards, which is, which is interesting. Many traditions teach that, that if you, if you, uh, pursue this spiritual awakening.

Guy (20:44):
Wow. And then when you, I’m fascinated as, cause I’ve never spent time in an anything like you have with the, in the meditation school school, if you call it. I’m not sure. But what, what was a typical day then? What, what, what would you, how would it look? What, what would you do to ingrain to ingrain the practice? You know?

Marty (21:03):
Yeah, I would, uh, yeah, I’d, you know, I’d wake up very early, obviously. And, um, I, it was, it was 11 acres, uh, with various buildings on and meditation hall library guest facilities. And it was a retreat center. Um, it wasn’t really a school. And, uh, I would get up very early and I would go right into meditation. And my meditation, uh, usually preliminary techniques would be practiced, whether it was, you know, the hathe yoga, the postures, and the stretching pranayama, the various breathing techniques. And the type of, uh, yoga philosophy I was studying then was, um, crea yoga. And crea yoga employs specific pros, which are essentially breathing technique. So I would do them for a while cuz they were preparatory, uh, for the brain. They get the brain in the, in the right, uh, you know, in the right alignment so that you can go into deeper states of meditation.

Marty (22:02):
Sometimes I would chant, uh, sometimes, uh, do mantras. Um, but, you know, if I had two hours, that’s what I would be doing for two hours. Most of that time I would, would be spent in the silence. Just perfect quiet, you know, not listening to music, not fantasizing, not visualizing, but just going into that pure silent space and allowing that to permeate, uh, my being. Then, um, you know, after that was done, then it was time for breakfast and I worked at this particular facility as well. So then I would go to work, um, lunch break. I would usually meditate for another 20, 30 minutes, uh, work again in the afternoon and in the evening, depending on who was there, there might be a program, a group meditation group chanting, uh, group teaching or instruction. And if there wasn’t a program going on, then I would just meditate another couple of hours until I started, you know, my head started popping up and down, which it would <laugh>. So, you know, there were times, uh, in that environment where I was meditating many hours a day, all cumulatively on, not at once. And that’s very powerful. Um, you know, you can’t do that all the time. But, you know, as I was sort of a living a, a monastic, semi monastic life then, uh, vegetarian food and so on and so on. And avoiding, uh, you know, too much any socializing really. And then also avoiding, uh, TV and radio and all that kind of input, just really letting my mind stay focused on my spiritual practices.

Guy (23:38):
Yeah, beautiful. How, just to try and put context in for people that haven’t had any, what, what would be the elevator pitch then to, to going down that route for people? Like what were you feeling or experiencing from a day-to-day basis from that? Because you say you get excited by going into meditation, you know what I mean? And I, and I know people, I’ve, I’ve heard it even said that like sometimes, um, as an avoidance, not, I’m not saying this is, but people have a perception that we, we are by doing that we are avoiding life’s challenges and difficulties and, and things like that.

Marty (24:19):
Yeah. I’ve, I’ve heard that too. Escapism. It’s not a path of escapism. And I was told that by my teacher very early on, this is not a path of escapism. It was really adjoining of life. It’s a facing reality face-to-face. It makes you, uh, you know, I can look back now and say this, it makes you more efficient in all areas of your life. And it helps, uh, heal, uh, a lot of the stuff, you know, like we talked about earlier, the early trauma and the stuff we’re not even aware of that we’ve gone through. Um, it also, uh, uh, increases intellectual capabilities. You know, it, a lot of meditation practices, uh, they’ve, they’ve shown increases the thickness of the prefrontal lobes. And this is where executive function lies. So concentration, attention, motivation, goal planning, impulse control, all of those things are valuable. You know, I would think anybody would want to enhance that in them if they knew they could.

Marty (25:22):
And you know, there’s a study, uh, uh, a couple years ago that showed just 11 cumulative hours of meditation produced measurable increase in thickness in the prefrontal lobes. So it, you know, it’s what, what we were saying earlier, brain’s neuroplastic. So, you know, we can e and I, and I’ve heard meditation referred to as self-guided neuroplasticity, which is really what it is. So that’s why meditation can be so powerful. Cause you can, um, guide your mind, guide your feelings, guide your thoughts in the appropriate direction. And the payoffs can be enormous. Um, you know, everything from, you know, what I mentioned, uh, about improve executive function to higher and higher, um, awareness of spiritual realities. And that’s really difficult to talk about because, you know, it’s one of those things if you haven’t experienced, you know, it’s like trying to explain what a really good chocolate cake tastes like to somebody who’s never eaten one. You’ve gotta experience it to get, you know, to kind of get the, this, the feeling for it. Yeah.

Guy (26:30):
Well, I’d love to hear your feel on this then, through me meditation and we’ll, we’ll dive into neurofeedback soon and everything and mm-hmm. But is it, what’s happening? Cause I even heard this, the quote last night. You said it different, the power that creates us is the power that heals us. And do you think with the meditation practice, by allowing ourselves to get out the way to get back to that pure essence of us, the body is then able to recalibrate to its natural homeless

Marty (27:04):
Spaces? Yeah. Yes. I, I believe that’s true. I think that, uh, in, in a sense, it’s a good way to segue into narrow feedback when we, you know, when we go to these deeper levels of ourselves, there will be a reset, uh, self-regulation, if you will, of the whole system. Because we’re just, you know, we’re just, the outward expression of our minds, minds creates the blueprint and then it manifests out here. So if we can go there and we can allow the mind to be flooded with this divine consciousness that is supremely intelligent and knows way before we know what we need and what needs to be done, and allow that to, um, you know, saturate us, then that takes care of everything.

Guy (27:51):
That’s incredible, isn’t it? Yeah. So two questions for you then. Uh, and I guess, what was it like stepping out of that life after a few years? Were you concerned about going back into

Marty (28:03):
No, no, no. I was very grounded in that. And the first thing that I did once I left the, uh, retreat center, I went to work, excuse me, at a psychiatric hospital teaching meditation and treating clients who were suffering like me. And that was a gift to me. That was, you know, when I look back now, I didn’t even realize what a great gift that was for me that I could immediately start giving back to start serving. You know, that’s how, that’s how we heal our past. We start serving. And that was my mission, and I knew it was, and my spiritual mentor told me, he said, this is a great opportunity. And it was a wonderful hospital, uh, very progressive and a great staff. But that, you know, the meditation has, has been, you know, the, the center point for me always. And so it’s, it’s never really changed. I’m living thousands of miles away from that center now, but I’m still involved with it. I still teach meditation, I teach, uh, yoga philosophy, higher spiritual philosophies and so on. That’s, it’s what I do. I it’s my life, you know, it’s never gonna change.

Guy (29:13):
Yeah. So how did you end up then getting into neurofeedback? Like, what was the bridge there?

Marty (29:20):
Well, I started to study, uh, meditation and, and physiologically what happens when we meditate. And back then there was a couple of good studies out that the transcendental meditation people had published. And, you know, if you look at it, it’s, well, the brain changes and it’s these brain waves that indicate these changes. So I put two and two together, so to speak, and I said, well, there’s this, there’s this technology, new technology called brainwave biofeedback where you can teach somebody to change their brain. And I said, well, if we can do that, then we can teach somebody how to, um, begin to enter into this process of meditation. You know, and I don’t care who they are, um, uh, what their intelligence level is. If we can aim their brain in the right direction, eventually the meditation process and the healing that, that I experienced can happen.

Marty (30:17):
So I started doing that. Uh, the hospital fully supported me, and we started a whole program, uh, using neurofeedback that ran alongside the regular treatment program. And, you know, even though my, you know, my primary goal was teaching people how to meditate and wake up, you know, the 11th step of alcoholics ano anonymous is through prayer and meditation. I’ll achieve conscious contact with my higher power. Can’t say it any more plainly than that. I was like, well, we have a way we can do this now. But what really started to happen was, um, the patients who were going through the biofeedback started reporting their depression, getting better, their insomnia getting better, their drug and alcohol cravings getting better, their eating disorders, their anxiety disorders, their chronic pain on and on down the line. And the medical director said, you know, this isn’t just for meditation.

Marty (31:12):
Look at the results you’re getting here. And so that’s why when you look at neurofeedback now around the world, you’ll see it’s being applied for all the things I just mentioned. I still, you know, have this passion about the meditation model. I call it neuro meditation, but neurofeedback is being used for, even athletes are using neurofeedback now. The Italian soccer team, uh, all did neurofeedback and then won the cup. Um, there’s athletes here in the us the military is using it now for, uh, traumatic brain injury and post-traumatic stress disorder. The N F L National Football League here in the US is using neurofeedback for post-concussion. Um, but, but it, so there’s, there’s this whole, uh, rehabilitative model, but also an optimal performance model as well.

Guy (32:00):
Interesting. So when, when you hook someone up, I’m assuming you’ve got a cap on, right? And there’ll be, and this measurement points of data, is that what’s happening? And then essentially you can see how the brain, if it’s firing correctly or not?

Marty (32:14):
Yeah, we have, we have very big databases now. Um, you know, just like you have anything you measure in the body, there’s da, like liver enzymes, you know, your liver enzymes should be within this range. Too high is not good. Too low is not good. But this is the ideal range. So we have that, that data now for 6,000 metrics in the brain, uh, age correlated. So the first thing we do is a quantitative eeg, a quantitative electroencephalogram where we, where we, we use a cap, we measure the brain, and then we compare all the activity to a database of other people that age. And from that, we can say, oh, look, this is off, this is off, this is off. And then there’s more research that correlates different areas of the brain with different disorders. And I mean, there’s so, or symptoms. So there’s thousands of, you know, anxiety, depression, um, sleep, uh, high blood pressure, hyper arousal, and that’s just to name a, a couple.

Marty (33:14):
And so we can look at those parts of the brain and say, ah, here’s the problem. This part is underactive, or this part is overactive, or this part isn’t connecting. And then literally from there, it’s a training process. Okay. Once we’ve identified it, then we, the computer, very sophisticated, uh, designs a protocol based on that says, there’s too much of this activity, so we’re gonna teach your brain to stop doing that. Then it’s just, it’s purely feedback from there. Uh, right now we’re at the stage where we can use videos as feedback. So we’ll use, you know, Netflix or YouTube videos that are nice videos. And if the brain is doing the right thing, the video is, is full brightness. If it’s not, it starts to dim. So it’s opera conditioning. We’re giving the brain a positive reward when it’s doing the right thing. You do that for about 30 minutes of session, 20 or 30 sessions. It’s amazing what starts to happen. And usually well before the 20 or 30 sessions, people start reporting the changes. You know, I’m sleeping better, I don’t have so much anxiety, my depression is lifting, uh, whatever it is they’re working on.

Guy (34:22):
Wow. So what else do you give, what else is in incorporate in the training then? It’s like, if I come in for a session?

Marty (34:28):
Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s, um, you know, it’s, it’s opera and conditioning. You just sit there with the cap on the computer, does all the analysis, all the analyzing as well as the feedback. So you, there’s really nothing more you have to do than just watch the video and have the intention of keeping it bright, you know, keeping the screen bright. And pretty soon the brain keys into that. And, um, and the changes start to occur. There, there are, there’s some very remarkable applications being developed now. There’s, uh, potentially a, um, an application for Alzheimer’s, pre-Alzheimer’s or early Alzheimer’s. Um, mci mild cognitive impairment as well. We’ve had, uh, some really good results with that because, you know, you’re, you’re exercising the brain with this, you know, way back to what you said earlier. Um, you know, if you don’t use it, you lose it. Quite literally, the brain will prune out, uh, networks it’s not using. So this enables us to really do this brain exercise, get all the parts working again.

Guy (35:39):
So essentially it’s not the neurofeedback that’s doing the healing, it’s the body and your, it’s the person just, it’s just guiding it into

Marty (35:47):
Yeah. The nu it’s, it’s totally non-invasive. You know, this is all the person’s own consciousness that is implementing the process. Yeah.

Guy (35:57):
Yeah. Wow. Now you’ve mentioned you’ve seen tens of thousands of people over the years.

Marty (36:03):
Yeah. Yeah.

Guy (36:03):
What kind of results are we talking about from this? What have you, what have you witnessed?

Marty (36:08):
Um, exceptional, you know, does it, is it’s not a, um, pure, you know, let’s be very clear about that. In fact, uh, going back to the body work part, uh, what I have learned over the 40 years is who does this help? And then what else do we need to do? Cuz you know, diet, nutrition, stress management, um, body work, all these things I think are important. But, you know, neurofeedback, if you, if you add it and you round out the, the, the interventions appropriately is, can be miraculous. It can make everything, you know, and I, and I, I get clients now who’ve been through everything. You know, I’ve been here, I’ve been there. I’ve spent, you know, all my life savings. And I, here I am still sick and I still have this autoimmune disorder. I still have this chronic fatigue, whatever it is.

Marty (37:04):
And we get a lot of them. You know, I was gonna call my practice, uh, the last resort <laugh> was just, you know, I’d like to get people before they went down that road. But, um, but that’s okay cause because we can really, uh, help, uh, people who have, uh, you know, have significant issues going on. Um, so it’s, you know, I can’t give you a percentage of how effective I think it is, but in, in my estimation, and, and only because I’ve been doing it so long, we were about 90, 90 plus percent, uh, effective.

Guy (37:40):
Wow.

Marty (37:41):
Now, there are, I have had cases where, you know, we couldn’t get anything. One was a, a young girl with a seizure disorder, and every time we’d get her brain working better, she’d have a seizure, which was like getting a head injury and go back and that. And I’ve had a couple of clients who, you know, no matter what we tried, what we did, what counselors we pulled in, we just couldn’t get. So it’s not, it’s not, um, this magic bullet. And anybody who says it is, don’t, don’t listen to ’em. <laugh>, you have to, there’s a lot to it. There’s a lot to the brain, there’s a lot to, you know, this, this whole beingness that we have that has to be addressed

Guy (38:16):
For sure. And I’m, I’m guessing it’s something that can’t be done remotely at the moment.

Marty (38:21):
Um, we, we were doing that for a while, and that was, that was, uh, effective in, in most cases, especially when we had covid going on, we were sending out whole systems to people’s homes and they’d sit in their living room and put the cap on. And then we had a, a therapist who would remotely, uh, run the session. That’s actually pretty effective. It’s just, um, it’s not the ideal, let me put it that way. Yeah. And there’s a lot of home units now too, which, you know, are one or two electrodes, you know, there’s a few devices on the mark. Actually, the market’s getting flooded now with them. But again, you have the same problem. Um, you know, sometimes you need some, uh, a live clinician there with a lot of experience to say, oh, this is not quite right. It has to be this, so that’s important.

Guy (39:13):
Yeah. Got you. Got you. And like, one more question while we’re on this subject for people listening then, cuz obviously podcast here in Australia is popular and you’re in the us if people wanted to see someone in Australia, are they, are they good practitioners, bad practitioners? Is it like, how do you differentiate?

Marty (39:31):
That’s hard. But I do know there are a couple of good ones. And I’ve, I’ve met them at workshops, or they’ve come to my workshops. I can’t remember their names right now. I didn’t know you were in Australia. I would’ve looked them up, but if that’s okay. You know, it, it, it is, um, it’s a challenging field right now because neurofeedback is very different depending on who’s doing it and what equipment they’re using. And there are, there are some types of neurofeedback out there now that they’re calling neurofeedback that really is a neurofeedback. So this is a little challenge right now in our field that there’s no o overall regulation. And I get people calling me all the time, you know, I, I’ve looked up this practitioner, do you know anything about him? And you know, I, um, sometimes I do, but most of the times I don’t. But you just Google narrow feedback near me and, you know, check ’em out, see if you feel okay with them. I think the most important thing is checking their, not necessarily credentials, but their experience. How long have they been doing it for? How experienced are they? And so on.

Guy (40:35):
Yeah. Got you. Fair enough. I’m always fascinated as well. Cause I, I, I’m like, I’m passionate about health and wellness anyway. You know, it’s in my blood. So I feel like I’m always proactive and looking at different things and exploring different, uh, ideas. And, but as human beings, we tend to wait <laugh> till symptoms arise. Like it’s always the downstream, you know, that it’s really manifested into, into our lives. Yeah. And I just, and it’s more just an opinion really, uh, your opinion, but how many of us out there are actually carrying trauma, do you think? Especially after the last few years that we’ve, uh, endured, endeavored through

Marty (41:19):
Carrying

Guy (41:20):
What trauma, you know, within the brain or body because

Marty (41:23):
Oh,

Guy (41:26):
Because we, we are not aware of it. We just go about our lives and, and, and, and clearly symptoms arise downstream of that manifest into all sorts of problems and diseases. Yeah. Yeah. Especially as we get older. Yeah. And we think, wow, if we could have just been more aware or addressed these things back then. And I believe trauma is a big component of Yeah. Of all this.

Marty (41:49):
I think, you know, there, there is obviously these clinical diagnosis like post-traumatic stress disorder, but in my experience, 95 or more percent of us are walking around with that. Cause it doesn’t have to be a big massive trauma. Our third grade teacher could have said we were a stupid jerk, or, you know, whatever, I’m being sarcastic, but you don’t, you know, what produces trauma can be very different in different people. And the effect that it has, as you say, uh, can show up way, way down the line. So I, I’m like you, I prefer to be proactive. I prefer to, uh, you know, mitigate, uh, you know, live a, a hygienic life, exercise, fresh air, sunshine, eat right, um, and meditate, and then do whatever I can to keep my brain healthy. I think that that’s, that’s important not to wait for some of these things to catch up on us. You know, like, like you say, the body keeps the score. Well, let’s even that score out first before it, it, uh, it, it wears us out.

Guy (42:55):
Yeah. And do you encourage a me, I’m, I’m, I’m guessing you do, but do people generally meditate as well that then come in and do the needle feedback? Or do I’m

Marty (43:04):
Not always. Not always. I mean, I have a lot of kids as, as, uh, as clients, you know, kids with autism and attention deaths disorder. You know, if, if they’re open to it, if their parents are open to it, I think it’s great. But, um, but not everybody. I, and I try to encourage people to start a meditation practice at home. Or even just contemplation. Just take a half an hour a day. Make that your quiet, inspirational, contemplative time and just find a place in your home and sit there and just be quiet for a half an hour. You know? I think that’s what I like to see most people start with.

Guy (43:39):
Oh yeah. Do you, where do you think this is heading in terms of treatment and outcomes? Do you think that we are gonna continually look more beyond just talk therapy and counseling and, and actually get to the point where we can get our bodies back into this natural homeostasis?

Marty (44:02):
I think that’s coming. Uh, I was watching an interview the other night with Neil deGrasse Tyson, you know, the astrophysicist. He predicted by 2050 that will happen, what you just said, that we will have, um, discovered through neuroscience and neuro technologies that we can, which we’re on the, on the infancy of now that we can change the brain and therefore ameliorate or head off many of these problems later on in life. He took it a few steps further, but you’d have to look it up. <laugh>.

Guy (44:40):
Okay. Yeah. Fascinating. Fascinating. Uh, just to wrap up the podcast, Marty just mm-hmm. <affirmative> a couple of last questions for you. Sure. Um, so what are your general practices to, to maintain it? I’m guessing it’s just the, the meditation practice. We kind of, I dunno if we, we actually close that loop, but you, so you get up, you said it’s 3:30 AM and meditate for two hours.

Marty (45:05):
Yeah, at least two hours usually. Yeah. Yeah. And then I’ll go exercise and then I, I go to work very early, obviously.

Guy (45:13):
Do you get tired? Like, do you find the body gets tired from getting up that early? Or do you feel more invigorated and charged because you’ve actually got the meditation? Yeah. More

Marty (45:22):
Invigorated and charged during the day, but I get tired at night. I know my body says, oh, you know what, you’ve been up for this so and so many hours. You need to slow things down. So, so I, you know, I I don’t walk around, uh, charged up all the time. Definitely start going downhill at a certain time. <laugh>.

Guy (45:42):
Yeah. Wow. Do you, I’m just trying to phrase the question. Cause there’s so many intrigues that I live because there’s a, there’s a, in my life now, I try to do my best to surrender to what is and, and be present each day. You know, I got a two and a half year old daughter mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and I, I feel so blessed in my life and I try and do my best to soak up the moments when I can mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, you know, even though challenges arise and it can knock us off kilter mm-hmm. <affirmative>, do you have a kind of, I guess, compass or philosophy that you, that you live by that have come out of all these, that your experience and practices in life in, in general? Do you, do you get rattled much these days?

Marty (46:28):
Oh, I, I get, I get, I definitely get rattled. Uh, I try to avoid things that rattle me. Obviously don’t, try not to watch the news too much. Yeah. But, um, you know, I always come back to some of these spiritual experiences I’ve had where, you know, and that’s what it is. It’s not a mental construct. It’s an experience that there is a divine consciousness or intelligence, whatever you want to call it, that, um, is running the show here. And if we just get out of the driver’s seat sometimes and allow it to do what it kind, kind of like what you just said, um, you know, surrender, uh, that it will guide us, uh, you know, and, and our relationships or situations, our entire lives will be guided by that presence. And the more I can re remember to, to be present and to, um, acknowledge that present, the more active that is in my life. So that’s really where my practices have led me to now.

Guy (47:35):
Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Thank you for sharing. Last question. With everything we’ve covered today, we’ve covered a lot of ground actually. Is there anything you’d like to leave the listeners to ponder on?

Marty (47:51):
Yeah, so whether anybody knows it or not, there’s a, there consciously, there is a part of them that knows how to meditate. You know, if you can get very metaphysical here, there is a part of them that is always in the background, witnessing, watching, just being there. And it, it is inevitable that if they will practice meditation, they will find that part of themselves and that part of themselves will change their lives. So I think people, uh, you know, and what I’m really saying, people have to have faith in themselves. That they have everything within them. They have a potential within them to, um, to heal, to experience, uh, profound joy and bliss in their lives. Um, they just have to start turning inside to find it and stop looking for it out here everywhere. Cause it’s not out here, believe me. It’s, it’s, it’s, it is a, it’s an internal thing that happens. Hmm. So I would, I would just, you know, and, and it’s, it’s amazing because when you start with that awareness, you, you are guided to the books, to the teachers, to the podcast, to whatever that will, you know, cause we don’t learn anything from books. We don’t learn anything from anything outside with, it happens in here and in our hearts. That’s where we really learn. So I would just encourage people to, to follow that.

Guy (49:20):
Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Where can people find out more about your work? I believe you’ve got a book as well.

Marty (49:27):
Yeah. My book is, uh, is pretty heavy duty. It’s philosophical. It’s for, um, you know, the initiated, it’s called the Brain Sutures, keys to the Revealed Consciousness. It’s b it’s actually being, uh, reedited now, but it’s on Amazon Brain Sutures. Um, we have a good website. Uh, what key, my last name what key ipi.com IPI stands for Infinite Potential Institute. So what key ipi.com has a ton of information on it. Lots of video interviews and, um, things written by myself and my wife. So it’s, uh, and it, it’s not just meditation. It’s about healing. And, uh, my, my wife does a very unique kind of, uh, sound therapy and, uh, she talks about that. She’s a tuning for it’s very awesome stuff. Talk about body, you know, changing the way the body is responding. So the best thing is, is the website. I think. Um, uh, cuz from there they’ll, you know, you can find all kinds of stuff.

Guy (50:29):
Amazing. Well, as always, the links have been the show notes for anyone listening as well. Oh, great. Which have a platform so they can click on it and come over and, and, uh, check out your work. Marty Mari, thank you so much for coming on. I really,

Marty (50:40):
Thank you guys. Enjoyed. Yeah. I really appreciate it, Guy.

Guy (50:43):
Yeah, what a great conversation. Thanks so much

Marty (50:45):
Man. Nice to meet such a comrade.

Guy (50:48):
Thank you.