Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Guy  00:02
There we go. Beautiful recording Mark, welcome to the podcast.

Mark  00:10
Oh, it’s great to be with you. Thank you.

Guy  00:13
I I’ve been loving diving into your work. These last couple of weeks. It’s been a it’s been a good time for me, actually it. Life has been slowing down coming into Christmas, believe it or not. And, and I’ve been listening to many of your podcast conversations and your work. And I’m absolutely fascinated to see where this conversation goes today, Mark. So thank you for all you do. And thank you for being on the show.

Mark  00:37
Oh, you’re welcome. You’re welcome.

Guy  00:40
I asked everyone on the show. And I always get interesting answers at the beginning. But let’s imagine we were on an intimate dinner table tonight. And I’d never met you before or you sat next to a complete stranger. And they asked you what you did for a living? What would you say normally?

Mark  00:55
Well, what I would say is that, you know, this goes back to when I was a teenager, and my father, I came home from college, and I was the first one in my family to go to college. So there’s a lot of expectation there. And, you know, my father, I came home and said that I knew that I was going to be a poet. And even though I hadn’t written anything yet, and and of course, they were beside themselves, because you know, we’re sending you to college to do what? How are you going to make a living, and I don’t know where it came from me, I said, I’m going to live a making. And I think it took me years to discover what that meant. But, you know, I say that, I feel very deeply that our souls awakening is our career. Where that takes place is our occupation, which can change. But it’s always, it’s always what brings us most alive. And when we’re most alive, we are open channels where conduits for kindness and care. And one of the rewards for kindness is we discover kinship. Kindness and kinship share the same route. So not only does it help our relationship, but you know, the reward for being kind and caring and alive, is that we participate more fully in oneness.

Guy  02:36
And oneness dude, you sparked us three different questions instantly before going into the your backstory, but I’m curious to know as well. And because the words like awakening soul, they can mean so many different interpretations to different people, and also found, especially in my life, as well, I got hung up on what my purpose was for a long time. And I never thought I would figure it out. It’s almost as soon as I let it go, things started to open up for me. I mean, I would love to hear your interpretation of all these things, because they’re the conversations I get had a lot. But again, we identify with them differently. So often.

Mark  03:20
Yeah, you know, I think that’s an important question to look at. So for me, and you know, I’m, I’m a student of all pads, you know, and this will get into my history a little bit. And we do get more, but just to reference that, you know, I was raised Jewish, I have a deep tie to the Jewish heritage. But in my 30s, I almost died from a rare form of lymphoma, and, and going through that I was blessed to have people from all faiths, formal and informal. offer me some kind of help, blessing care. So when I was still blessed to be here, I was not and still all these years later, 70,35 years later, I’m still not wise enough to know what worked and what didn’t. And so I feel I was called to believe in everything. And all my work all my teaching, as a student of all pans, you know, it’s the poet in me, that tries to see is the philosopher and me that tries to understand what I’ve seen. But it’s the cancer survivor in me that says, None of it matters if we can’t make use of it. So So now back up and say, Well, what do we mean when we talk about soul and we talk about spirit and all these things? Well, every tradition has different names for it, and I like I like how the Hindu tradition speaks of it, and that is that, you know, everyone carries a portion of unity. versal spirit while they’re here, and it’s almost like we, it’s, quote, hours while we’re here, but like we borrow it. And so the question is, can we be a good steward of the portion of Universal Spirit we are carrying while we’re here. So when I think of my soul, I think of it as an image to help with this is like, you know, we have a bird feed, we have bird feeders out in our yard, thanks to my wife, Susan. And, and we have a blue bird house, which kind of stick right in the open away from trees. And you know, there’s a little hole and you know, there’s a little air in that little house, it’s the same air that’s in the sky, it’s part of the sky, it’s a small, teeny part of the sky, that you have to go through this hole. Well, that’s a good way to understand, you know, we carry a portion of Universal Spirit in us, like, the birdhouse carries a portion of the sky. And it’s all one, you know, when I’m thorough and alive and open and authentic, and real, then that exchange between the portion of spirit, my soul, and all of spirit, it feeds each other. So, you know, you can talk about it as inner voice, you can talk about it as the Holy Ghost, you can talk about it as atman dharma as 1000 names, but it’s the portion of spirit we carry while we’re here. And ultimately, I think that, you know, great love and great suffering, you know, at some point, every person has the chance to be dropped into the depth of life, and you were sharing, you know, your, some of your journey on just before we started and, and you experienced that as well. And it doesn’t have to be, you know, often it’s a life threatening thing, or it’s a very difficult, challenging thing. But it could be beauty, or wonder or surprise, are being loved completely for the first time. It doesn’t have to be, you know, terrible tragedy. But once we are dropped into the depth of life, then the deeper spiritual journey began, which is a relational one, what kind of partner am I and what kind of hole

Guy  07:30
Do you ponder upon? Were you looking at this work before you were diagnosed with cancer back in 1987? And well,

Mark  07:41
I think I think intuitively, you know, I’ve always been a heart centred person. But before my cancer journey, I was I mean, I was, you know, I was in my late 20s, early 30s. And I was a driven young artist. And, and so, you know, I, I was very, I had a heart centred view of things, didn’t quite understand it all. But I was waiting in my head too much. Right. And one of the things that happened out of almost dying was not through any wisdom on my part, that my head, everything sank into my heart. And so ever since then, my mind serves my heart and not the other way around. loving mind is a tremendous tool, but it’s not a god.

Guy  08:39
Absolutely, but there’s certainly a lot of people out there that are hell bent on staying in the mind and not dropping into the heart. Well,

Mark  08:47
it’s it’s a, it’s a way to hide from life. Hmm.

Guy  08:53
Do you wonder if you hadn’t had that experience? Do you think you would have still found your way to your heart?

Mark  09:01
You know, I, I, that’s hard to know, of course, but I imagine so it might have taken longer, and it might not have been as complete a journey. But I think eventually, you know, probably no, there’s a great, there’s a great Native American Lakota saying, and it says the longest journey you will make in your life is from your head to your heart. Yeah.

Guy  09:27
Yeah. Absolutely. So I’m just just to tie up that story if it if it’s okay, before we move on. When you dealt with that, because I have no doubt I have a lot of listeners that are dealing with their own struggles right now. And when we’re in the thick of it, especially if it comes as a shock and we weren’t expecting something. It can really be challenging to actually make any meaning of that and we can always think worst case scenario. How How, what would you recommend to people? Like how did you pull yourself out of that, in your own journey?

Mark  10:07
I think that you know, and again, what I want to offer, what everything we talked about, I like to say are examples, not instructions. And so I can just kind of share for me, and again, it wasn’t any wisdom on my part, but I was read, you know, being thrust into a life threatening situation. kind of washed off of me, or burned off of me as maybe better burned off of me. Most things that were false things that were extraneous. And so were you know, before I might have hesitated to be completely honest, or to be completely vulnerable. While all of a sudden, faced with life threatening situations situation, I had no choice, there was no time for any of that. I if I was going to be if I was going to make it through, and then also make it through change, because it didn’t necessarily guarantee I would survive. And so it changed, surviving meant not how long I would live, but would I be fully here for whatever time I have. And that’s more what surviving is. So for anyone, and if someone’s listening, who’s going through something challenging right now, first off, I feel for you. And you know, I think that the things that I would would offer are to one trust your heart, your heart, our heart is our greatest teacher. You know, as I went through my my journey, out from the outside, it would seem like I was all over the place, I made different decisions. You know, I said yes to surgery, I said no to surgery, I said yes to chemo, I said no to chemo. And but, on on the other side, looking back, each was exactly the decision I needed to make to be here today. So one is trust your heart and two is is is don’t hesitate to reach out for help. Don’t hesitate to call on people. And if you don’t have close friends, ask for help. And through that process, people will become close friends. You know, one thing I learned I say it half jokingly but you know, it’s when you don’t interview ambulance drivers, you take the first one that comes along? And likewise, you know, I think I think we in our, our sophisticated world, you know, we we have all these preferences and requirements? Well, if I’m going to hang out with this person, then would they need to be A, B, C? and D? Well, you know, no, no, sometimes how we become close, is we take a risk and we what we see who shows up and we go through stuff together. And somehow those challenges are how we’re supposed to meet and become intimate. But if we never take the risk, will raw will walk right by it.

Guy  13:26
Never see it? Ha? How do we then I’m gonna ask you this, because this was a challenge for me in life. And I’d love to your interpretation of this. But how do we then begin to trust our heart? Especially if we’ve been living from our head? So long? How, how do we start? I

Mark  13:43
think the first thing is for is to, you know, we live in a world that is so mental, that, you know, we want verification and evidence for everything before will believe in it. But that’s not what, what what authentic living is actually the other way around. You know, in other words, like, do you know, do I need if I put my hand in a water? I know if it’s wet or not? Do I need evidence that is wet? If I’m having trouble breathing, do I need evidence that I’m having trouble breathing? So I think that you know, with the things that are just as powerful but invisible, like love and oneness and connect following our heart. I think we have to start and I recommend this for people who are listening, start we’re very near yourself. Give your full attention to the near mirror. I’m in my study. As a tree out here. I always say give your full attention to whatever is before you holding nothing back until it becomes your teacher. Hmm. And when you have an experience, even if it’s a moment that you know is real that you know, is glowing that you know is grounded. You don’t need to question it, build on it. Okay, I know what that feels like. So that when you encounter another moment, you know, I, I can add this fundamental moment to the other one I felt and then we start to have an experiential basis for what we know to be true. I think one of the things that’s plaguing I’ve been thinking about this a lot, you know, and you know, certainly in America but I’m sure it’s all over the world, you know, this incredible you know, stridency and polarisation and all these, you know, people who are into alternative realities, and what’s true, what’s not. And, you know, I’ve really been thinking about this because it’s puzzling. Um, but, you know, with all the technology and the alternate realities, and virtual reality, and social media and all these things. And on the other side, on the inside, I think we have a whole group of humanity that has lost their direct connection to life. And without that, we’re lost. You know, we can call you know, so like, you’re standing on the ground, you’re breathing. So am I. So those are facts. We can talk about, what does that mean? What’s our interpretation of it, all of that, but the grounded experience is, you know, like, you take I like a redwood tree, you know, the great Redwoods in America and the West Coast. And in India, there’s the Nyah, Grodd hot tree, which is a similar enormous tree. Well, maybe maybe in a hurricane or a tornado or a monsoon. A tree like that could be uprooted, probably not, could be damaged, but probably not. Why. Because their roots are deep in their trunks or wide. That’s why we need an inner practice. That’s why we need to have a direct connection with life. So we can survive the storms of our day.

Guy  17:20
To handle the resilience that comes our way, because it certainly doesn’t feel like things are gonna be plain sailing as well, moving forward, you know,

Mark  17:30
well, they’re never, you know, I mean, I know there won’t be. And I feel like, you know, every generation has its challenges. For us. It’s the pandemic, you know, for my parents generation, it was World War Two, you know, every generation, it may the details may be different, but this is our turn. Are we going to realise were more together than alone? Are we going to love instead of fear, are we how are we going to do this, this is our turn. So it won’t be clear sailing? And but these are the challenges that come for every life and every age, about what it means to be here.

Guy  18:17
Totally. What have you made of the last two years as for humanity? I mean, do you?

Mark  18:26
Yeah, I, you know, I think and this does tie with my cancer journey, because, you know, when we first were into the pandemic, and having to be home, you know, I like so many teachers, you know, I mean, before this, I travel a lot to teach and, and I was like, oh my god, am I ever going to be able to do what I love again, you know, and, of course, I’ve learned how to teach online and, and do a mix, I think going forward, but, but what struck me was I started to feel emotionally some of what I felt when I was first diagnosed with cancer all those years ago. So particularly, there was a moment I had a huge tumour growing out of my skull bone and oh, wow, I, I went to a doctor and and he told me I had cancer. And I was like, you know, you must have the wrong folder. It can’t be me, you know, and scared and, but when I left that office that day, the door I had come through to keep that appointment was gone. There was no way back to life before that appointment. Everything was new. And I think that when the pandemic hit worldwide, I think that happened to all of humanity. There’s the old world gone. There’s no way back, though there are parts of our global society that want to go back. Want to say No, no, I want to be you know this. Do you know the work of Elisabeth Kubler Ross. I don’t, I’m not familiar she she was in, she’s gone now. But in the 70s, she did a lot of work with, with dying people who are dying. She was the mother, the modern Mother of the hospice movement. She wrote a book on about grief. And she saw that there were these five stages of grief. And they’re not sequential. They’re more like a constellation, you can bounce around in them. But most people will go through denial, anger, bartering. Oh, God, I never prayed before, but let me out of it now, you know, and depression, and acceptance. So I started to think about this in terms of our humanity’s reaction to the pandemic, we have whole parts of the global society that are in denial. It’s a hoax, there’s no there’s no virus, meanwhile, people are dying, left and right. There’s a whole part of humanity that’s angry. I’m not going to wear a mask, you know, you can’t tell me and what are we rebelling against? Biology. You know, and rightfully, there’s people that are, but you know, eventually, we have to get to acceptance, because that’s the only way we can move forward and discover the New World and the more authentic world. Because the other thing about the pandemic that has struck me so deeply is, you know, in the Jewish tradition, the word Sabbath literally means the one day, we don’t turn one thing into another. Well, I think the pandemic has forced us into a global sabbat. You can’t run, you can’t scheme, you can’t even dream. There’s nowhere to go. You can’t turn one thing into another, we have to face ourselves and each other. And so, you know, like anything, not not only for anyone who is facing individually, a difficult situation, but in the society as well. When we face those moments, when things you know, fall apart, there’s three important questions that always come up. One is what needs to be repaired? The second is what needs to be reimagined now that it’s broken. And the third is now that it’s broken? What should we leave dismantle, that never should have been put together in the first place? And I think, you know, we need to ask that individually. And also, societally

Guy  22:56
truly, is that what, and I’d love to just touch on this take parallel out of what’s been happening in the world and your personal journey as well. Because what you know, meeting you and getting familiar with your work mark, like, you’ve achieved so much, like from yourself, you’re like, wow, SmartLipo This is incredible. He’s written amazing books, you’ve been on Oprah, you’ve done wonderful things in the world. But at some point, from your adversity, you must have had to have made the decision to go, I’m following my heart. And, you know, you had to put pen to paper to write the first book for at some stage in your life, where so many great things have been spawning, because of you living from that place.

Mark  23:42
Yeah, so this raises a real paradox, because, you know, when I said I was a driven young artist, and so, you know, as a driven young artist, you know, I was I wanted to work toward being, you know, recognised and well known, and have people value my work and all of that, and like any body, like, pushing to get ahead, and all of that well, and then, you know, forget all that I was upside down, inside out, and, you know, just hoping to wake up tomorrow. So, once still here, you know, all of those drives all of those things that I was taught to work for all of those, looking for approval, and, and recognition that they, they were meaningless after that. I had to say, what now? And like most I mean, all the spiritual traditions speak about it in different ways. And this is why we there’s so much talk about in the moment because the moment is the doorway. To what matter, you know, eternity isn’t hundreds of years. stacked on top of each other eternity is in every moment, if we can be authentic enough to open it. And so, you know, once I realised that there was nowhere to go, and then of course, things started happening. And I’m very grateful. But, you know, it would have been just as meaningful life. If, if no one recognised my work, it would have been more painful or lonely. And, you know, so there’s an interesting, you know, dynamic of all that, you know, when, and this is our type all that artists are, you know, writers and when people are unknown quote, well, then, you know, you have to really maintain your own self worth. And try not to let the rejection and not being seen or heard eat away at you. It we’re human, so it hurts. But ultimately, what’s that got to do with the work? So, I’ve been blessed, you know, mostly through Oprah is kind support to have my work around the world. And. And so that’s wonderful. And what’s that got to do with the word? Yeah. So the image that I’ve come to understand is like, if you’re really, if you’re walking in a strong wind, and it’s really coming right in your face, you you plant your feet, and you lean forward, and you keep going. Well, that’s kind of what it’s like, when you’re, quote, unknown. If you’re blessed to have some kind of understanding, or have your work received, it’s the same thing, but the winds now at your back. So you still have to plant your feet, keep going, but lean in the other direction. And so I’m very grateful, because it gives me a chance to be with so many people like you and to teach all over. And the work you know, like, in the beginning, I when I was a driven artist i i was trying to create to achieve. But ever since almost dying, I create the way you would put wood on a fire to burn bright. And the books are the trail of that fire.

Guy  27:53
Well, I love that analogy. That’s beautiful. Thank you for sharing mark. I think it’s important because we all get caught up in striving, don’t we? And we’re all striving. And quite often we never stopped to think well, what are we actually striving for? You know, why am I why am I busy racing about my day to do my to do list and everything else. And, and because society can feel so fast and hectic. And

Mark  28:19
well, and we’re kind of miss taught, which again, has been in every age, but it’s very acute. And so, you know, multiplied and magnified in our age, this notion of you know that we all want to be be a celebrity, when we’re really just taking for something to celebrate.

Guy  28:44
Yeah. Yeah. What? What practices do you have in your toolkit mark, like, what would you suggest to people if they go, you know, that’s me right now? Well, I

Mark  29:01
think, I think the first thing is that, you know, as we were talking about, that our sense of worth comes from our direct connection to life. And so if I’m, if I’m, let’s say, we’re friends and something goes wrong, or doesn’t go quite right, and I feel hurt by you, and I respect you. And so it really hurts and, and I, you know, I feel less than because of whatever’s happened. Well, there may be relational stuff to clean up here. But no amount of going back to you will restore my sense of worth. That that’s this way. That’s an inside job. So the first thing and you know, so when we restore that direct connection, we not only restore our worth, we reconnect with our aliveness we reconnect with the network of kinship, that is the Living Universe. So, you know, each of us has so so in a very, you know, practical way, I always return to being present being completely present. Because when we experience difficulty that gets disrupted. I trip I skinned my knee, I get a toothache, something goes wrong, you know, present What’s that? You know? So then okay, come back, come back. That’s why our meditation is helpful. All these practices. That’s why so what’s in our toolkit? You know, what is it? How do we come back? So, so let me let me share this, this parable, and then we’ll go and talk more about tools. This is an ancient anonymous Hindu teaching story. So there’s a there’s a master and apprentice always. And the master the truth be told, finds the apprentice to be very annoying because he’s always complaining, complain, complain, complain. So he says to the apprentice, get a handful of salt. Put it in a glass of water and bring it to me quietly. So he does and the master says drinky drink some of the glass he spits it out. Master said it wants to matter and he says is bitter. Master says get the same exact amount of salt. Put it in your hands and follow me quietly. So he doesn’t get the prince gets this handful of soil cups in his hands. The master leads him to a lake and he says, put the salt in the lake. He dies. He says drink. So he kneels down. He scoops the water up. It dribbles down his chin. The Master says well, he says, oh, it’s fresh. The master looks at the apprentices has stopped being a glass become a lake. Stop being the glass become a lake. It’s an ancient anonymous. I love those stories. And what what it says to me, I mean, because I don’t nobody told me what it means I’m good. Why I tell the story is what it says to me is everyone gets their handful of salt, their pain, their fear. No one gets through this life without that salt. But we can’t eliminate it. But we can right size it. And so when we’re small, which is how pain and fear say hello, we tense up, all we can do is enlarge our sense of things become a lake to right size, our pain and fear. Because if we stay small, not only will it hurt, and be and the fear will be powerful, but we’ll also get bitter. So the question is, for everyone, what’s in your toolbox? To help you enlarge your sense of things. When you’re a glass. It might be meditation, it might be a conversation like this, it might be calling up an old friend, it might be listening to music or working in the garden or playing with your children or who knows or sitting in, in the water in the water. But what we have to pay attention to what helps enlarge our sense of things. So that when we need it, we can turn to the toolbox. And make use of it. Yeah,

Guy  33:36
amazing. God, it’s as you were sharing that story. When I when I have come up against difficulties. One of the things I do is find the present moment, find what’s going on in my body, find out where I’m feeling it. But then I’ll always imagine myself panning out being much bigger than I am. And to see if I can see from a different vantage point, which

Mark  34:00
well, and it’s not it’s not in flay is not making big, but it’s how can we relate to everything that’s larger than us. So, you know, just like when you’re in the water, it’s buoyant. Well, the universe is buoyant, if we can surrender to it. And so, you know, when we enlarge our sense of things we we are, were letting other forces help us.

Guy  34:33
Beautiful, yeah. Why do you think then, with that, that we talked about a little bit earlier around authenticity and truth and the masks that we can wear to present ourselves in the world even you mentioned that yourself in your own journey. Why do you think then we are so can get so fearful of our true self? If we have an identity that we’ve told ourselves, we are in, we’re in rooted in it, when the truth of it is, is part of the experience, allow us to get back to connection that you’re speaking

Mark  35:15
isn’t. There’s a paradox, another paradox at work here, at least as I’ve experienced it, you know, so on the one hand in the world, we do have to navigate and make choices like, you know, are you trustworthy? Can I be vulnerable? Will it will I get hurt if I expose myself in front of you. But on the other hand, if I stay hidden, what’s the cost of that? You know, if I don’t allow myself to be seen, I’ll never be fully here. So there’s always a cost and a risk. And so the way that, you know that, that I understand that is another kind of metaphors, you know, the sun is a great teacher, what the sun in order to be itself, the sun emanates light and warmth, in all directions, without preference. It doesn’t say, Well, today, I’m going to shine on the roses, right. So our heart is an inner sun. And our job is to stay devoted to have a vow to emanate love and warmth and kindness in all directions without preference. So that’s, that doesn’t mean that I still don’t have to make decisions in the world. But that’s like opening and closing the blinds. That’s not muffling the inner sun. So it’s taken took me years to just to discern the difference that, you know, I can take a risk with you and get hurt. Well, that doesn’t mean I shut that means I get more skilled at discerning if this is a trustworthy situation. And is it okay to open the blinds in the window of my heart or not today. But sometimes when I was young, and I got hurt, I would think I was protecting myself and I was muffling my heart. Right? So know that so. So I invite us to make a commitment to never let that inner sun stops shining in all directions without preference. And yes, I’m going to have to deal with stuff I’m going to have to deal with when it doesn’t work, or I get hurt, or, you know, but I’ve always said, I’d rather be fooled than not believe. Because I’ll live it’ll be alright. Whereas if I, if I extinguished that light in me that I will permanently damage my spirit.

Guy  37:59
Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Now it makes total sense. Mark, thank you for sharing. I am I want to ask a few questions before we wrap things up, Mark? And one is it occurred to me with the fact that you have so many books, where if somebody wanted to go tomorrow and just purchased one, where would you recommend them to start?

Mark  38:23
Well, I think a good place to start is the book of awakening, which is a spiritual day book. And okay, no, I really wrote that. Man, so many, I mean, that what’s out now is the 20th anniversary edition, which is amazing to me. But I wrote in, in the late 90s, on the other side of my cancer journey, because I have a lot of people in my life, who are in recovery programmes, you know, and I would see daybooks everywhere really used. So, you know, my wife, Susan, and, you know, encouraged me, you know, like, what if you fill that form, and the more I thought about it, if I could fill that form with small doses of what matter it might be, you know, a way to help x so that’s a good way to start because that there’s a an entry for every day of the year and you don’t have to you can read it sequentially, but you can just dip into it intuitively. And so that’s and then there’s another book of mine called 7000 ways to listen and not so those are those are a couple of one oil is one maybe another early Book Two is finding inner courage like those three any one of those three would be a good way in

Guy  39:40
Yeah, perfect. Thank you. Yeah, because when I was looking for more this morning as well, which one would I would I go first, you know 2022 is fast approaching. I mean, I’m literally here New Year’s Eve recording. This is the day before for you. What do you what do you I suddenly say expected But what what do you have planned for 2022 in your own life? And are you hopeful for humanity moving forward?

Mark  40:07
I am, I am hopeful for humanity because I believe that not that, you know, there won’t be difficulty and challenges and it’s, it’s going to take everything we can do together to, to repair our world. But I am hopeful for humanity because I feel like we’ve been here before. And we have survived. And, you know, if, if you look at, you know, like, look at my body. So in a very simple, simple way, if I have one more healthy cell than toxic, I’m healthy, I’d like a lot more. But as long as I have one more, I’m healthy. Well, if you imagine humanity as a global body, every soul is a cell in that body. And our job is to be who we are to be loving, and kind and open, so that we can make sure there are more healthy souls than toxic. So I’m very hopeful for that, you know, on a more, you know, day to day level, I’m, you know, a lot of the, and I know, we’re in the midst of omachron, and everything, but, you know, I have been back out teaching in person, which has just been wonderful. Oh, my God has just been someone. And I’ve been really grateful that I’ve learned how to teach online, too. And I will continue to do both in 2022. And, in fact, at the end of January, my next online webinar, will will be how I’ll offer that, and that will be on the gift of relationship. The gift of relationship. And the way those work is their three successive weeks a session each week, and this will be January 29, February 6, and February 13. And if folks are interested, all the details are at live dot Mark niebo.com. And, you know, it’s been amazed. I mean, in addition to teaching in person, exploring this online has been amazing, because it gives people from all over the world, it makes it easy for people just to, you know, who maybe couldn’t come to where I was teaching in person to. So I’ve been amazed at how wonderful to be working with folks from all over in these webinars.

Guy  42:31
Yeah, fantastic. No, isn’t it? Everyone listening, if you pause, there’ll be a link to the show notes for that anyway. So they’ll be able to just go and click through, it is wonderful, we actually held a sound healing meditation on Zoom last night as well. And we had people from all over the world coming in, you know, and the technology is allowing us to do that. So it’s definitely been a learning curve. But at the same time, like you say, you you kind of connect to people that you wouldn’t normally as well. So there’s definitely both advantages.

Mark  43:04
And I also I have a new book coming out next September, which has just been finished and is going through the publication process called Surviving storms, finding the strength to meet adversity.

Guy  43:19
Beautiful. Well, that’s definitely going to be poignant for our time, that’s for sure. My God. Mike, I got one last question for you. And I asked everyone on the show this but with everything we’ve covered today, what would you like to leave our listeners to ponder on?

Mark  43:41
Well, I would I would like to leave folks with the, the, the amazing paradox that no one has lived your life is living your life, but you. No one can do it for you. And no one can do it alone. And so I would leave with this short, short, one stanza poem of mine that goes like this. The mystery is that who ever shows up when we dare to give has exactly what we need, hidden in their trouble.

Guy  44:25
Plenty to ponder on there. Mark, thank you so much for coming on. And thank you for all that you do. And everything that you put out into the world is greatly appreciated. And I have no doubt everyone listening today would get a lot out of everything that you shared with us. So thank you for your time and thanks for coming on the show, man.

Mark  44:44
Well, thank you and thank you for the good work you’re doing glad to be a part of it. Appreciate it.