#99 My awesome guest this week is Paul Selig, who I welcome back to the show for the second time. (You can check out the Paul’s first interview with me here.)
We discuss his new ‘chanelled’ book ‘Beyond The Known; Realization’. Paul is a psychic, teacher and award-winning author of his channeled texts. It’s a fascinating conversation as we discuss Paul’s personal challenges with this work and overcoming them and how we come become more comfortable with getting beyond the known in our own lives. Enjoy!
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About Paul: Paul Selig is considered to be one of the foremost spiritual channels working today. In his breakthrough works of channeled literature, I Am the Word, The Book of Love and Creation, The Book of Knowing and Worth, The Book of Mastery, The Book of Truth, and The Book of Freedom, author and medium Paul Selig has recorded an extraordinary program for personal and planetary evolution as humankind awakens to its own divine nature.
Paul’s work is widely featured in a variety of media, including ABC News Nightline, Fox News, the Biography Channel series The UneXplained, Gaiam TV’s Beyond Belief and the documentary film PGS: Your Personal Guidance System.
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TRANSCRIPT
Guy: Hi, I’m Guy Lawrence and you are listening to the Guy Lawrence podcast. If you’re enjoying this content and you want to find out more and join me and come further down the rabbit hole, make sure you head back to the guylawrence.com.au. Awesome guys. Enjoy the show.
Guy: Paul, welcome back to the podcast.
Paul: Well thank you!
Guy: I, it’s been interesting since I met you on the podcast last time I interviewed you, I started following you on Instagram and just watching your movements and boy you seem to travel a lot and you’re doing a lot of workshops at the moment as well.
Paul: I travel about three times a month.
Guy: Yeah, I know and I was fascinated as well because I’m from somebody that holds workshops my end. But it clearly seems that the, there’s a lot of people coming to your workshops. I mean there’s big crowds coming in and I was interested to know how are you finding the reception to this work in general with people out there? Cause clearly for me it seems to be changing.
Paul: Yeah, I think it is changing. I don’t know what did it, but I used to show up at these things were feeling like there was an expectation that I would need to prove myself or the validity of the work, and I feel that resistance is nothing anymore.
Paul: It’s very rare. Then when I, you know, I did this kind of work in my apartment for 13 years, for 18 years actually for an audience of like, you know, five to 10 people. I wasn’t looking to be known and when the book started coming and I began doing workshops, people were smaller than they were checking, checking me out, checking the workout. But now there’s a body of work there is, you know, this is the, they just came and I’m, most people who show up, have some familiarity with what I do, you know, they’re, they’re appraising it perhaps, but they’re not there to stop. I did workshops early on where I would get heckled.
Guy: Oh wow.
Paul: Yeah, because it’s a strange thing and I’m not a graceful channel, you know, I don’t look right. I don’t do this the way somebody might presuppose it should be done.
Paul: I don’t know if there’s a way to look or way to deal. But now it’s funny cause I did, um, I’ve done a few events lately with a few hundred people in attendance, many of whom had never worked with energy or felt anything like this and they really weren’t necessarily all that familiar with what I do. And they’re all feeling the energy and having the experience of it. And that’s exciting for me. I’m not a very good new ager and I never have been and I’m not very interested in sort of preaching to the converted. My guides will work with everybody and there they welcome everybody. But it’s especially exciting to work with a group who’s having an experience of this, you know, really for the first time. And so the gifts of the heightened exposure that the work seems to have gotten recently,
Guy: that’s incredible night.
Guy: And you said something there that, so was the make me think about it is having an embodied experience is when people actually have an experience. It really helps support and want to learn this work.
Paul: It’s how I learned it. You know, I was raised sort of an atheist in a bit of a skeptic and my first weekend equal energy, which is Clare sanctions that opened up a whole world for me. And what the guides I work with are able to do. They’re able to support other people and having these experiences. And um, it’s pretty much across the board. I remember doing a workshop with about, you know, 200 people theater and everybody felt it cause I said, do you feel the energy? And all the hands went up. And to me that was extraordinary. I mean
that’s not me, but it is giving people an experience that they can own in their own way.
Paul: I’m not interested personally at all and people deferring their authority to me, I don’t want that responsibility. But having this experience of embodiment and feeling the energy or seeing the energy fields, then that’s very exciting to me because then people can leave with their own recognition of what they’ve just experienced and own that in their own way.
Guy: Yeah. Beautiful. Well, what do you think it is about a collective group of people coming together to then experience this energy start to move?
Paul: I don’t know. You know, a lot of people come, I think here the guides are to have an experience of a channeler or channeling or they’ve read the books and they want to set it out in person without really knowing that what’s going to happen is going to be a real interchange of energy. And the guides get people in the workshops working with one another, you know, either in pairs or sometimes they’ll split the room in half and have half of the room sending energy bleeding with half of the room.
Paul: And you know, that’s to me the exciting part. The lectures are great, you know, the books are great. I mean it’s all context. They’re bringing through their teaching sequentially one after the next step. And it’s crazy how much material there is now. But they’ve said often that the books operate on two levels. They’re the words on the page which provide an intellectual context. But the real book is the energy that informs the words. And people are often feeling the energy you’re working with the energy and having the experience of it as they’re reading or listening to the audio books. So the live events are operating in a somewhat similar way, except people are having the ability to sort of do it, you know, practically do it and feel the ramifications of the work on, you know, the energetic field of the rest of the room.
Paul: I mean, that’s what’s really sort of startling to me about this. And really, you know, for many, many years channeling, I wasn’t that interested in the nation that was coming through. I mean I, I would dismiss it because it was coming through me in the early days. Who the hell was I? But you couldn’t fake the energy. It was no way. I mean, the energy was profound and I like to get high on the energy. I wasn’t getting high on anything else anymore. So, and I became a bit of an energy junkie, you know, I loved it. And now you know, to feel that level of by grade and a large group excited because you know, just parables the space. It’s a wonderful experience.
Guy: Yeah, it’s huge. It’s huge. I, and just on a personal note, I experienced that energy many years ago and once I had a reference point that changed everything and then I started looking, you know, never in a million years that I think
Guy: podcasts on top of, you know, having conversations like this, but then it becomes quite normal after a while.
Paul: Yeah. It’s just part of the way everything works.
Guy: Yeah, absolutely. So why is seventh book and why beyond the known?
Paul: Well, you know, every time they finish a book, I think that there’s nothing else for them to say. And um, and I think that they’ve set it all. And I felt that way ever since the first book. In retrospect, I’m beginning to feel that the first six books were preparatory to this series and what they’re really teaching now, which is embodiment. I’m at a whole other level and the ramification of being, you know, in this higher octave that they describe on the manifest plane in the how, you know, reality itself can be translated or lifted by one who sort of holding that level of frequency themselves as their natural state of being at the very end of the sixth book, you know, they invited all of their readers across a threshold. They say, everybody’s welcome, welcome, welcome. This about, and I had been told in a reading for myself when I was channeling from somebody who was asking me questions and you know, what’s, what’s sticking with Paul or where’s he at?
Paul: And they said, you know, Paul’s job is to hold the door open for other people, which I actually met with great dismay, but I signed up for what, you know, they said that was what I had agreed to. And at the end of the book, the freedom, the six book, you know, they said, everybody’s welcome to cross this threshold. And I said, call, you’re welcome to now. Now you can come. And it was at that moment that I realized perhaps what they meant was that the books were the doorway. The books were a doorway for other people and I was holding the space. As now written this through it, now I get to sort of have more of my own process, but what they’re teaching and beyond the known is really what exists and what they call the upper room, the upper room, and they define the kingdom as the awareness of the divine in all manifestation.
Paul: And they say it’s present here. It always has been, but you have to have, you know the eyes with which to see it, which really means the level of alignment, energetic accord to be able to hold it and the completed beyond the known realization, which was the first book. And since then, you know they’ve completed the second book for what which is alchemy on which will be out in August and I have no idea what the next know. I know there’s one due when it’s a trilogy and they’re quite aware of that because this is their series. But where this is going at this point is truly beyond the known for me as well.
Guy: Yeah, and I’m fascinated about the terminology about the upper room and I would love to explore that a little bit more and I’ll give you make that tangible for, for people listening as well, because I kind of almost visited envisage like there’s a glass ceiling or something holding us back and then we need to break through.
Paul: It’s at in the book of freedom. I mean they say it’s a map, it’s a bit like having a dropped ceiling and you know, the claim that they make in the book of freedom is I am free, I am free. And they say that that’s played by the true South. The aspect of the divine self that knows it’s free is not entertained or constrained by the legacy of history. And what we’ve been told that we’re allowed, and they do say it’s as if you’re breaking through as through them into what exists. But the metaphor that’s helped me the most is the musical ones that they use and they say that we’re existing in a shared octave. That’s how we’re all operating, right? And an Optiv has high and low notes and they say any piece of music can be played in any octave into infinity.
Paul: And what they’re doing in this work is lifting us or transposing us as a tone, as a piece of music to express and what they call the higher octave, where they octave above and they talk about vibrational accord often. And they’ve said it, as long as I’ve been doing this, they would say accord ACC or do your a C H O R D isn’t a piano. And what they’re talking about really is operating at a level of tone or vibration in a higher accord that then calls true you that which expresses in like vibration. And they talk about lifting things to what they call the upper room or the higher octave so that they can be made new or known a new. So all of this stuff seems to come at the cost to be old or what we believe to be cringe. And they’re clear on this stuff and they say, if you look around the room you’re in right now, everything that you see was named by somebody who came before you.
Paul: And the value that things have is impressed upon these things by you or by the culture of your birth or by, you know, the times that we happen to sit in, you know, it’s better to be this than that. And so this is sort of this shared construct of the octave of experience that we know, but they say ultimately there’s only one note, one note being played in the universe and it’s being articulated in different form. So there really is saying everything is source or God or whatever you want to call that power that you know, vibration, whatever you want to name it as everything. Is that out pictured in different ways. And that’s all in tone or oscillation. And as you lifted a higher octave, you begin to have the experience of that and then call to your lift. True you what expresses in lower octaves or lower vibration.
Paul: And they said that’s how the, so we bring in the kingdom into manifestation, holding the octave. They say, actually if you really do this work, you become a doorway over portal or a bridge to the higher, you know, for the wool that you’re expressing through.
Guy: Yeah. Got it. That’s a great analogy. So then if we are all operating at a certain octave and that’s all we’ve known and that’s how we’ve identified ourself to the world, to our relationship, to our people, to everything that is. Then stepping into that next octave into the, you know, the upper room is literally then having to let go of all the recognize stuff. And I think that’s probably some of the greatest challenges of this work.
Paul: Well, I can’t say that I’m there with it, but I understand some of what they’re teaching and the simplicity of it, which is really everything is just an idea, you know?
Paul: I mean my understanding, my reality is an idea. I’ll give you this example because it’s one of theirs that I like. They say, you know, imagine you’ve got a painting and the paint is one substance and the paint has been given different pigments and has been sort of painted on a canvas to resemble different things. You can have a ship at sea and a storm approach and you’re going to have a body washed up in the sand and people partying on another side of the beach. But only it’s just paint that has been depicted in different ways. And what we’re doing is we’re imposing a narrative or meaning on Creasy, but if you bring it down to its essence, it’s just the paint. It’s just that. It’s one source. So there’s a kind of deconstruction that seems to happen with this work. And you know, I wish and I hope to become more effective as I do the work because I channel so much and when I’m not channeling the last thing I want to hear as the guy.
Paul: No, I mean they won’t much work for me. But you know, I do have these extraordinary experiences in the groups where you experience everybody as stunningly beautiful, just beautiful, you know, and you’re seeing sort of the unique thumbprint that is them. But as part of this universal dance and this expression of, of what I can only call him God, you know, and they’re saying everything is that, and you know, the claim of the upper room, I lift you to the upper room. Um, which is a simple intention is to claim the inherent divinity that is everything regardless of what it’s been named or called back to its true essence. And that in and of itself will lift it where the standard, they say this often, you can’t make anything Holy. It’s already Holy. But you can deny the divinity in anything and have that experience and that scene that happens.
Guy: Yeah, you’re almost done a CA from a new level of mind.
Paul: mind if that exactly, they call it Christ mind and their definition of the Christ has always been the aspect of the creator that can be realized and form. And they say it’s a level of consciousness that one aligns toward hears and they’ve also said whether this is accurate or not. I’ve heard of enough times that I have to trust it. They say this is the highest level of alignment. One can maintain and reach while one still holds a body because the body is still, you know, morgue, you know, inform. But then we’re able to lift in. Vibration is physical form as well and consciousness and these are these claims they work with. I know who I am in truth, which is identity. I know what I am improved matter. I know how I serve in proof expression and they say what is true was always true when the divine self, as you always knows who it is, what it is and how it serves and the realizing of that is the work of this book.
Guy: Yeah. Beautiful. How would I’ve, I’m intrigued like how do you on a personal level then because you’re working in this field, you’re working with this energy. This is a constant unfolding for yourself on a personal level, surely. And you’ll have it having to let go of the old.
Paul: Well, I mean, I struggle with it truthfully. You know, my challenge with this work has always been, it comes through me and I’m the guy that complains about not getting a date, you know, or you know, I mean I have all this stuff, but the difference for me now is becoming red. While I experienced myself complaining about my stuff, I’m beginning to also experience that the part of me that isn’t really who I am. It’s the idea of who I’ve been sort of reiterating itself in an ongoing way. And that’s um, you know, that’s the big change as of recent. Like I know I’m not the mass, but I still experienced the mass. My little dog has a toy and I’m going to have to like, I’m going to go crazy for the rest of this interview. So one second little.
Guy: No, no problem.
Paul: Come on, come on, come on, come on. There’s Lily.
Guy: Oh, there you go. Hello Lilly.
Paul: I’m back.
Guy: No problem. So, yeah. So, so in essence then when you’re dealing with the unknown in yourself and having to let go of the identity?
Paul: Well, I mean, yeah, I am. And it’s ongoing. I don’t know. I truly don’t know that one arrives at a place. I think if we have lessons to learn in a lifetime, we’ll learn them. You know, regardless of what a level of vibration we’re operating. Now, the big thing about the upper room, from what I understand it or the hierarchy, is that theres no fear there. And you begin to operate in what they call the eternal now, where you’re not projecting your expectations in the ways that perhaps we’ve been taught to. We’re used to doing. So. You know, my own experience of this, which is ongoing, has been deeply challenging. The booklet followed realization. Alchemy was one of the hardest experiences of my life, clearly because they’re talking that book a lot about the transition between the lower octave to the higher, you know, and what one does release and what one is basically releasing is the mask one has relied upon to negotiate reality.
Paul: That’s the way we do commerce. You know, I’m a white guy in my fifties I live in New York city. I went to this school, all of these ways of knowing the self, which have some validity, but the guides would say, you know, that’s not who I truly am. What is that I’m not my age or my body or my gender or you know, the religion of my family, the time that I was born in. Those are ways of knowing and they’re all opportunities to learn what they say. And in the next book is, you know, the is over and the masks are coming off. And when the arms off the mask that I’ve operated with, what is often rude or all the things that the mask has been hiding or covering, you know, my fear of my whatever it may be. And that stuff has to be exposed in some way or to be healed.
Paul: And the guides say, you know, nothing gets healed by burying that or denying the very first book I am the word. The guide said that humanity was the time of reckoning and instead of reckoning is a facing of oneself. And all of the ones creations and that everything that’s been created, fear needs to be renewed in a higher way. And so the translation or transposition perhaps of one way of knowing the self to another seems to be the journey that we undergo as part of this. I don’t think it’s magic. I don’t think it’s a map long ago this is about, you know, having all of your dreams come true the way you think. I think the symbology, a very different teaching about knowing who you truly are in agreement to the source of all things and you know, maintaining identity but a re articulation of identity, a different way of understanding who and what one is and consequently who everybody else is as well.
Guy: Let me know. And that’s a huge leap. So I feel like I’ve become this process in different way through this new series, but I don’t know if I will succeed. And all I can sort of say is that you know, you are not the one that does this at the level of the personality softwares. They say the small self, they have said a million times, the small Sal isn’t the one who becomes a, well, you know that’s a a word paradigm, you know? So yeah, it makes complete sense what you’re saying, there’s so many little things that I’ve spoken often that, how would you describe them? The small self. So the largest health, it’s that mindset. It is a small self as a, as the personality structure. Whites have used the word ego maybe five times and I didn’t know all the years that I’ve channeled.
Guy: It’s not a word that they use, but their language is fairly traditional and archaic. Juno and you know, occasionally somebody will throw out a new age term or idea and I don’t get any response from them at all because they’re dealing with different language and different meaning and different vocabulary. They’re not very steeped in pop culture, but the, the, the personality, so they say is an amalgamation of identity even more. You are parents that you were what the teacher said about you. It’s your idea of who you are, space and time for the culture that you’re born or have have chosen to learn through. I mean all of these things create a construct and the construct operates a little bit as a mask and the mask is how we negotiate and also it becomes an opportunity to learn. So there’s nothing wrong with personality or the small self.
Guy: It’s kind of what we came to work with. What the guides are teaching is that’s not who you truly are. It has its validity, but really it’s just an idea and the eternal self or the true self, which is they would say, I think the expression of the God with them, that’s who you truly are because it’s who everybody is. You said you really, what we’ve done is we’ve created this world that’s operating in separation and they say, you know, separation from one another and that’s actually created separation from source. You know, they say it again and again. Again, you can’t be the right and hold and other in darkness. It’s just not possible. It’s ocracy. Unfortunately now of many religions, you know we have it right in. You have it wrong and that’s not, I don’t know of this division that we see in the world right now.
Guy: And so that’s what we’re learning through. When the guides say, you know, if you want to keep learning through that, you can can learn through blowing yourselves up, taking as a world you’re, and I don’t get any judgement about that. It doesn’t need to happen. I know the firm great opportunity for unfoldment and realization and hear from them and from others as well. People are waking up all over the place. Probably a reasonable way being out there. I think there’s, at the structures that we’ve been taught to count on seem to be familiness and it’s asking us to then question how we’ve invested in a reality that, I don’t know. I mean like the guides say, you know, they’d say no one is higher than the next and the moment you think you are, you’re below, you know, I mean that’s what you’ve done. They said, they say some things like, you know, the millionaire and the beggar are both learning lessons of abundance in different ways.
Guy: And it’s what makes one better than the next. They’re just different ways of learning and different ways of having experience. So, you know, we’ve been perpetuating, I think his legacy of separation that actually has opportunity to begin to release. But we can do that when we’re mandating the things be as they have been. And right now the world seems to be in such change that people seem to be waking up to the possibility that things are not what we would talk, that they were, you know, I was raised sort of an atheists and you know, there are days I would find comfort in going back to that. Truthfully, I just haven’t given, there’s a little bit more going on, you know, and I’m not a religious man at all, truthfully in one some, there are days I’m not even that spiritual. I show up in my job to be the radio for this work and then do what I can to apply the teachings and the life that I live. So I’ll leave it at that.
Guy: Yeah. The thing is, and I can only speak from my own personal experiences as well, is that when you talk about there’s an element of waking up and it’s like coming into the realization of not who we thought we were and there’s so much more to this, but the first thing I found myself adapting to was fear because I didn’t want to know, didn’t want to know at first, and it kind of perpetuated to a degree.
Guy: Well, I suppose it’s the same for me. Um, when I came into this stuff, you know, any kind of spirituality that came to me at it at a time of great darkness. I was 25. I was, you know, a year out of Yale. I was having my professional wounds come true, strangely enough. But I was, you know, a bit of a Boozer and I was getting addicted to drugs and it was not a good time at all. But I found myself praying for the first time in my life, um, in some hotel room and we’re mid, mid Western U S States. And it was the first time I think I did it and I heard a voice three days later telling me to get my act together, which really threw me. And so I came into this stuff I suspect really willing because I knew that there was something else going on.
Guy: I was defying an enormous amount of expectations of who I was supposed to be by going on this journey, you know? And there were many years where I had great doubt, you know, I mean, who the hell was I to be, you know, in energy healing and doing all these things that I was now learning to support the understanding that I’ve been given. And I now see them as essential so that fear isn’t present in the way that it was. I think there are other fears that come up and those are deeper issues, but I probably hold about, you know, the world and how safe it is to become visible. You know, as someone who was this the war. But you know, and Scott very, very easily. But I don’t know that this is necessarily a graceful transition for most people really is, is kind of going from live, going from living in a world where there was no such thing as odd or whatever you want to call God to one in which perhaps there was, was the equivalent of moving to another planet work. That just meant to me that not was as I thought, but it was, and I was kind of right back then when I was in my twenties and for whatever crazy reason or masochistic reason, I’d been on this journey and now there’s all of these two chains, you know, which I didn’t plan on or expect when I was about 31 I had a cure, was a feeler.
Guy: Everybody asks her one thing, you’re going to get it, write it down very carefully. And I wrote it down very carefully. And at that time in my life, I’ve had enough experiences that were sort of big to make me know without a doubt that there was more to the world that I’d been taught. And I felt like, well, if this thing is true, I want to go all the way with it. And that’s kind of what I asked for in retrospect. I mean I suppose there is great innocence in the ass and maybe no humility at all. But I thought, well why not? That’s what you want, ask for it. And some days I think the books are a way for people, not necessarily for me. I may not either. One, you know, where the Christmas rides all Walden’s why I understand my role in this at this point and that I am benefiting from it in meaningful ways. Yeah,
Guy: that was really great to hear you say that. Thank you for, um, just to tie up the conversation we’ve had today for the listeners, if they’re in a place where they’re kind of the big purpose where they could be curious listening to this, if they’re, you know, is there any sort of practices or things that you would suggest to start to lean into this
Paul: more to kind of, I think until to lean into the possibility of a spiritual life. I think one has to ask it, ask for it. I, the guides that I work with don’t override free will. They don’t tell me what to do. They don’t tell other people what to do. There’s nothing in the books that I know of or is that come to mind where they’re being directed and saying you have to because they honor our ability to choose. It’s a gift free will is something that we have. But if you want a spiritual life ass on, then don’t be surprised if the shit hits the fan. You know? If somebody shows up to say, by the way, you know about what was in the blank and it might be the right path for somebody. The books that come through me are away, but I’m not going to ever say that’s the only way it would be arrogant.
Paul: They may not be right for certain people at all and never should be. And that’s fine, you know? But I do think asking, and I do believe in prayer and I believe in prayer actually, just as being in communication or communion with source, you know, um, I think that that’s a positive thing and you know, if you can do that from your heart and not from your idea of what it’s supposed to be and be sincere in those requests, I do believe for whatever reasons, spirit or whatever’s out there, you know, it can be hurt, at least that’s been my experience. But those were the important things when I started. It was the willingness to believe that there could be something more than I had been taught. And I personally was hungry for that. But I’d grown up in a culture that said only stupid people lead in these things. And I truthfully about that wasn’t for me. It was for those people. And, um, I think most of us, maybe all of us deeply, you know, hold a yearning for some connection with love or the infinite or whatever name. Again you want to give it. And I think that’s the call. That’s the God within whatever you want to call that and Biden you to it to know it, that yearning, I think it is part of us and part of source spirit.
Guy: Yeah, that’s beautiful. Paul. I found for myself as well over the years that I was so crippled by my own beliefs of who I was and my identity in the world and growing up in the valleys of Wales and this is I was going to be and should be in and then held me back for so long. But when I started to really listen to what my heart wanted and having, I guess the face and the courage to, to start honoring that without worrying about what people judged me or how to be and worrying about fitting in with everything and everyone, things started to unravel and started to open up for me. And um, it’s a powerful message. It really is. Yeah. Are we gonna see you in Australia at any time soon.
Paul: We’re working on, you know, I would love to go and we just have to find, you know, some, I suppose a little support and getting me there. I mean I can get myself there. I just don’t know where to go once I’m there. My team, if you want to call, I hate saying my team, but the guy that I work with who sets up my events knows that it’s on the agenda because we’re getting a lot of requests to come. So I hope to be there within the year.
Guy: Yeah. Beautiful. Beautiful. I said, I think you’ll get a really big warm response from the Aussiess, Paul with your work. I don’t doubt that I don’t doubt it. And just to tie it up, mate. Yeah. You book beyond the known is out at the moment. Um, where can they get it? I’m assuming that it can be all
Guy: bookstores?
Paul: Yeah all the bookstores. Um, I don’t know if there’s, I’m assuming there’s an Amazon, you know where you are. Um, but you can get them online. Um, as well. My website has links and my website is just my name. It’s, you know, paulselig.com but the book is available when it’s out in, you know, kinda and audio book and, and pay
Guy: if I was going to ask if it’s on the audio as well, which is, which is fantastic. And, uh, Paul, look, thank you so much for coming on today and giving me your time and um, I have no doubt everyone listening to this will be definitely hungry for more. So, um, I really appreciate your honesty and your open harmony.
Guy: Thank you.
Paul: I will speak with you always.