Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Dr. Jude (00:00):
We’re here for a purpose. We’re here to experience. We’re here to grow. We’re here to evolve. We’re here to learn. I hope we’re here to contribute. We’re here to co-create. We’re here to embody. It’s love. It’s joy. It’s potential. And we’re on, it seems to me, this is the invitation to remember that this is who we really are.

Guy (00:42):
Hey, Guy here. My beautiful guest today is physicist Jude Caravan. Now, while I feel science is an extremely important topic when it comes to spirituality, I try not to get too bogged down in the science of it all. And Jude does today an amazing job of blending spirituality and science together, making more meaning in your life. I know if you’re like me, I’ve certainly lacked purpose and meaning and where was my place in the earth or the universe, if you like, during my life. And what Ju does is an incredible job of breaking that down and shares a lot of her personal stories. and obviously her intelligence and discoveries into this conversation today. It’s worth listening all the way through, and I have no doubt you’ll get a lot out of it. If you do enjoy them, of course, click subscribe, button, share, anything that will continue to help me get these conversations out on YouTube. And let me know your thoughts below. Let’s connect. I love hearing from you guys. And of course, if you’re in Australia, we are traveling up and down the country just before my second baby is born by the end of 2023. So there’s a lot going on. Anyway, enjoy this conversation. Links are below for everyone, including myself, if you want to find out more. Much love, and I hope to meet you in person one day soon. Jude, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Jude (02:04):
Guy, lovely to be with you.

Guy (02:07):
I stumbled across your work a few months ago while scrolling YouTube internet. I’m always fascinated and not only loved your work, loved your accent and everything about you. And I thought, oh, I can’t wait to have a conversation with this lovely lady if she comes on the show today. So it’s very appreciated.

Dr. Jude (02:25):
Oh, it’s my great pleasure. And we were just saying before we came on live, I love your accent as well, because actually you’re from Wales. And, you know, my husband and I live about an hour from the border between England and Wales. And we love going into Wales and just, you know, having road trips, actually, because it’s such a gorgeous country.

Guy (02:46):
Yeah, it is. I might be biased as well, but it’s the wonders of technology has brought us together today. Well, I’m coming from Australia. And the first question I want to ask you, Jude, is that, which I ask everyone, is that if a complete stranger was chatting to you on an airplane or something and asked you, what are you passionate about? What do you do for a living? What would you say?

Dr. Jude (03:10):
I’d probably have a cup of tea first and then I’d reply. I’d say that my passion is my curiosity about the nature of reality. And what that means, if we can open ourselves up to perhaps a larger, grander perception of the nature of reality, then often we’ve been taught at school to tell us, because school and that our societies, our Western societies are very much based on a paradigm of separation, materialism. And my whole life has been a journey and a realization that that is just not the fundamental nature of reality. So it’s an onward journey, it’s a passion, it’s a curiosity, and I love sharing what I’ve discovered and realized along the way, just in case that might help others on their journey.

Guy (04:05):
Mm, beautiful. It’s interesting, it feels like more people are asking these questions at the moment. I might be seeing it through a biased lens, I’m not sure, for what is the nature of reality, because it’s, well, it’s a huge topic. And I’m curious to ask you, Jude, if you’ve been fascinated about those questions your entire life, was there a moment in your life that actually sparked the interest of the nature of reality? Or was that something you just gravitated towards?

Dr. Jude (04:42):
There was a moment, but I was very young. I was about four years old. And I’ve told this story quite often, but it still brings a smile to my face because really that was the moment that I began this journey of curiosity. And a discarnate light appeared literally in the top corner of my room, not on the outside. And I started to hear a voice, but it was a voice that I was hearing on the inside. There’s a discarnate light in the corner of my room, and oh, I’m hearing voices inside my head. And it just invited me into an adventure. It just started to speak with me, and at four years old, hey, guy, you know, I mean, it’s natural, you don’t think, oh, but it was an invitation, and it’s been a lifelong invitation, because I realized then, even though I couldn’t put words to it, that the world that I was experiencing, my day-to-day life as it were, and I grew up in the north of England in a mining town, so my dad was a miner, my granddad was a miner. You know, I didn’t tell anybody about my experiences, but they began then and they’ve not stopped since. So it’s been a very scenic route, but it’s been a route where every step of the way somehow, even though I might not have consciously thought it, has guided me and invited me and supported me. on this ongoing journey of discovery.

Guy (06:12):
So you didn’t share anything with anyone of an experience like that. As you grew into your teens and adulthood, I’m curious because I had a similar experience actually at similar age. And did it fade out and you just kind of even forgot it ever happened? Or did it really kind of continue to lean in and start looking at different texts or spiritual texts or even the science behind everything that’s to lead into to do what you do today?

Dr. Jude (06:40):
It didn’t fade away. But my life, my dad died when I was 10. and so my mum was bringing up myself and my younger brother. So our lives, if you like, on the outside were quite challenging. And what was actually happening to me was that I just, at age 12, I just really didn’t want to be here. It was pretty hard, even though my mum was amazing. It was my mum and my brother that kept me here because I was wandering off between worlds. I was having a great time. I was having a wonderful journey walking between worlds. And you’re right, actually, because you asked about spiritual writings and teachings. I was fascinated by science because I was really wanting to understand how what I was experiencing really fitted in with the sort of reality of my everyday lives and what I was being taught at school. And so I started studying science. And I started studying quantum physics when I was about seven. I actually started seven. And I also was looking up and loving the stars from that age. So, I knew all the constellations in the sky by the age of eight, nine. So, I was sort of really getting along the journey of science. And the science, even the quantum physics was starting to give me clues. But the other science I was being taught at school was very mechanistic. It’s very 19th century science. And it wasn’t reflecting what I was experiencing. And what I did find, though, is that when I started to read some of the ancient wisdom, starting to get involved and experiencing and reading the writings of, say, ancient India, the Vedic tradition of ancient India, the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita. They were telling me, they were showing me that those ancient sages, those writers, I felt were experiencing the world as I was experiencing it. And so, that was opening up for me because what they were saying was that mind and consciousness aren’t something we have. they’re literally what we and the whole world are. And that was the way I was experiencing the world. So, what I was finding all through my childhood, I was starting to weave my direct experiences, ancient traditions, and universal wisdom teachings, and spiritually-based teachings, and the leading edge of science that really was offering clues but seemed to be way, way behind what the ancient wisdom teachings were showing me and what I was directly experiencing.

Guy (09:36):
It’s almost like the knowing is ever present and then the analytical mind has to catch up with what is always there with us. If

Dr. Jude (09:50):
That’s why, certainly that’s been my journey, my experience.

Guy (09:52):
How would you, because we often hear the word quantum science, right? And you talk about a mechanistic universe, but there’s quantum science coming through. And from my understanding, having spoken to many people, some people haven’t looked at it. Other people have embraced it. There’s different opinions around it. How would you describe it and what are the clues and what is the fascination from your perspective? Why do you get so passionate about these things?

Dr. Jude (10:28):
Well, first of all, I’d like to go quite a way beyond quantum physics, but let’s take a step back really because the science that pretty much, certainly I was taught at school, I suspect still is taught at school, doesn’t touch on quantum physics. I didn’t get to quantum physics being taught until I got to university at the age of 18. I’d read about it, but it wasn’t being taught in school. What was being taught in school was pretty much 19th century science. you know, more mechanistic science. And it’s 19th century science that our societies are based on because that is a science of a mechanistic universe, a sort of a clockwork universe, and a universe made up of separate things. And that is the science, not just that we’re taught at school still, but that our societies are based on. It’s not just in our education, it’s what our healthcare is based on. That sort of science of separation, of mind separate from body, and emotion sort of pushed to the side as well. It’s what our governance, it’s what our organizations, the hierarchies, and the mechanistic goals and measures of our organizations are based on. And yet, interestingly enough, our societies are based on 19th century science with 21st century technology. So the science that came through in the 20th century, that of quantum physics and relativity physics, that describe energy and matter and space and time, They were now the basis of our technologies, but they weren’t still taught in schools. Their paradigm and their clues of a universe that exists and evolves, not as separate things, but as a unified whole, is only now catching up. with those ancient and universal wisdom teachings. Because that’s what quantum science told us. It said, hang on, when we dig down deep and deeper and deeper still, we’re realizing that atoms are not like little billiard balls. They’re like fields of relational information. And they’re quantized. In other words, they’re like notes of music. But those notes allow the music of reality to play out. They show that nothing is separate, that everything is interrelated as part of this wholeness. And they show us, too, that our universe has meaning, innate meaning and evolutionary purpose. And this is not just the clues from quantum physics and the clues from relativity physics, but in the last 20 odd years, more and more, the evidence has been growing that what I’ve just said that our universe meaningfully exists and purposefully evolves as a whole, non-locally unified entity, and mind and conscious decide what we have, they literally are what we and the whole world are. That is a leading edge of 21st century science. And that is why I’m so excited, because it’s converging with universal wisdom teachings. And it’s enabling us to realize that we’re inseparable. that we have innate meaning and purpose in our lives, that we’re each unique expressions. of the evolution.

Guy (14:07):
What does that mean for us as an individual then? Because as we, I mean we were speaking off air and I had close to 10 years ago, I mentioned it many times, I had a spiritual awakening and I felt a huge shift of energy move through my body. Some people call it Kundalini and it allowed me to have an experience, become part of everything that you just spoke about. And I was, the universe and the universe was me, and it was like, oh my God, this is quite incredible. And I was able to then have, because a belief is a poor substitute for an experience. So once having an experience, it’s like, it’s almost like I’m looking from the top down and actually starting to go, wow, my life does have meaning, it does have purpose. We are part of something so far greater, which has allowed me to have the courage to lean into what my heart and soul wanna come through. So before that though, it was bloody terrifying. And in some respects, because I was, I guess, culture and conditioning and belief systems that get in the way of what is mine and what isn’t mine, the kind of thing, what I’ve inherited as a human being. So I guess what I’m asking is that how do we, If we haven’t had those experiences, and I don’t think we all need to, how do we take that information on board and enhance it in our daily life? Because it’s so powerful once we get it.

Dr. Jude (15:40):
It is. It’s transformation. I know it was for you, and it is for many, many other people. And you had what you’re referring to as a Kundalini experience. I had such an experience 22, 23 years ago, but I’d already been on my path for many years. So for me, it was another big step, but it was still part of that same journey. And as you say, Guy, not every… Very few people have that sort of transformation or amazing awakening. But the journey’s there for all of us, and it can be a journey of 1,000, 10,000, 20,000 small steps. And so for me, what’s really important is, first of all, what I’m speaking of is grounded in the evidence now and I think this is a game changer because we now have the scientific evidence at all scales of existence and across many different fields of research that what I’m sharing is grounded, is underpinned and framed by the science that also converges with wisdom teachings, universal wisdom teachings. So that’s one point because so far, science has told us that this isn’t true. Science has told us we live in a materialistic universe of separate things without meaning, without purpose. So whatever we’re feeling inside and whatever we may be experiencing doesn’t find a reflection in what we’re being taught at school, what our societies are telling us, what the media’s been telling us. And so we’ve got a basic disconnect. And so it’s very difficult in that regard to place what you experienced in grounded so that you can really live your life from that place. I mean, you took a leap of courage because that direct experience was so powerful for you. But as you say, without such direct experience, when we’ve got a worldview, a materialism, a separation surrounding us, it takes a lot of courage. to keep going to what our heart and our soul is inviting us to join. So what I’m saying is, first of all now, we’re on the threshold of a paradigm shift because we have the evidence. And it’s so compelling now. And that’s what drives paradigm shifts, when the evidence is so compelling and so unavoidable. We can’t stay in the old world. We get more and more cognitive dissonance. with what we’re discovering and what we’ve been told. So that’s part, you know, that’s a major part because this enables us to understand that we do have meaning and purpose within this wonderful whole world that we’re part of. The second thing is folks like you and many, many, many others are being guides and companions to say, Come on, let’s join this adventure together. Let’s link up and lift up because this is the most incredible adventure of our lives. This is who we really are. So you and many, many, many others now, a source standing alongside folks like me that say, here’s the evidence, folks, a standing aside folks like me to invite others into those experiences. And those experiences don’t need to be three days of being on fire, which is what a Kundalini experience often is. It can be something as beautiful and as wonderful and as simple and yet as deeply profound as being in nature, in being with the wonder of our beloved planetary home, Gaia, of looking up at the stars and seeing them with different eyes. Because you’re seeing them, we’re seeing them as companions and fellow travelers in this incredible evolutionary journey of our entire universe. We’re being invited in because we belong. We’re being invited to remember that we belong to this living, loving, evolutionary universe as co-evolutionary partners in its great adventure. And what a story, what an amazing story, because we’re storytellers. We share stories. That’s what we do as a species. So let’s share these stories, this new story, this unitive story, and come together. The old story’s unsustainable. It’s brought us to the edge of existential catastrophe, and we’re now awakening to know and to live and to experience.

Guy (20:36):
Link up and lift up. I love this. That’s gonna stay with me. That’s just beautiful. Thank you, Jude. God, you’ve figured, like, which direction do I go in? There’s so many questions you got me pondering on right now. And I’m like, so there’s a few things Obviously, you’ve had the hindsight of experience, truly, all the way to now, with literally, say, a foot in both camps. And I would say, assuming that science and spiritual and being very grounded and academic and having experience in that, you can marry the two together in such a beautiful way. So, with what science is presenting now, and you talk about evidence that’s been coming through, What is, how do you view what it means to be human then? And what is consciousness? And how does that all intertwine to the greater expansion of source universe?

Dr. Jude (21:35):
Well, first of all, I’ll go back to those words that mind and consciousness aren’t something we have. They are literally what we and the whole world are. So in that sense, we are microcosmic. co-creators of the consciousness, the mind, the cosmic mind of our entire universe. And our entire universe, more and more the evidence is showing us, is a great thought, a great and finite thought in the infinite and eternal mind of the cosmos. 13.8 billion years ago, We’re taught at school as a Big Bang. We know, I’m being facetious, and so is Fred Hoyle, the astronomer who coined the term Big Bang. It wasn’t big, it was minute, but it wasn’t a bang. Our universe began in the simplest possible way, but a way that enabled it ever since, not just to exist, but to evolve, and it began in an incredibly fine-tuned way. You’re one part in trillions on trillions on trillions when you take the universal constants. It began in an incredibly ordered, fine-tuned way. So ever since a space has expanded and times flowed forward, it’s embodied ever greater levels of meaningful information. So it’s evolved from its original hydrogen and helium to stars and galaxies and planets and plants and people. We are the result of 13.8 billion years of that evolutionary progress and impulse and purpose. We literally are microcosms of that evolutionary impulse of our entire universe. We are individuated expressions of its incredible, mindful meaning. We’re here for a purpose. We’re here to experience. We’re here to grow. We’re here to evolve. We’re here to learn. I hope we’re here to contribute. We’re here to co-create. We’re here to embody its love, its joy, its potential. And we’re on, it seems to me, This is the invitation to remember that this is who we really are. To wake up. Ken Wilber, the philosopher, talks about us waking up and growing up and cleaning up and showing up. And then and now we can link up and lift up. This is who we are. This is our reason to be here. This is our opportunity. This is our choice.

Guy (24:36):
Do you think it’s part of the human experience, as a human, as a soul, or however you want to frame it, to remember who we are? Because I had no idea who I was for quite a large part of my life. You know, I was completely devoid of it as a human. And yet there was just this element of this stirring, this thing that just would not leave me alone my entire life. And when I give myself enough space to listen to it, that’s when there was an acceleration to, I guess, coming home to myself. That’s the only way I can put it.

Dr. Jude (25:19):
That’s a beautiful way of putting it.

Guy (25:22):
And do you think the struggle needs to be there that we have to go there as individual people to, I guess, appreciate what we are? I don’t know.

Dr. Jude (25:36):
I’m not sure we have to struggle, but what I would say is that you and I are part of nearly eight billion human beings walking our beloved planetary home now. more than there’s ever walked Gaia at once in the whole story of what it’s meant to be human as part of that evolutionary arc. So, if we go back to the very beginnings, our earliest hominin ancestor was called Ardipithecus Ramada or Ardi for short. And Ardi’s Adi species came down from the trees. They left their ape kin and they came down from the trees and started to walk upright. And they live lives that are immeasurably different from our lives. But our lives are incredibly different from the lives of our ancestors, even hundreds, let alone thousands, let alone hundreds of thousands of years ago. And yet we’re all human. in that sense. We’re all human. We all feel. We all love. We all fear. We all have challenges. We all have joys. We have family. We have descendants to come. We have ancestors behind us. So, we’ve all been on this journey all this time. And, you know, we can trace our journey back 13.8 billion years because the universe lives through us as well. So think of that journey. And yet, for much of that journey, for the great majority of that journey, probably only a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of our human kin realized, experienced what you just described. They lived their lives. They had all of these ways of experiencing, and yet it was only perhaps what we would term the mystics or the sages or the shamans of our human family who lived lives that really remembered that deeper understanding of who we really are, human. But now, at this incredible moment in the story of what it means to be more and more and more and more and more, people are asking and are discovering in every unique way, and yet this commonality of a remembering to who we really are. And the more of us that do, however we do, It might be the joy of baking chocolate cakes and tasting chocolate and suddenly go, wow, that is incredible. Or going out and growing plants or having a kundalini experience or just finding our own lives are so challenging that we can’t go on as we have been. And the universe offers us an opening. And we go on in a different way than we’ve walked so far. More and more and more and more of us are doing this now. And the more of us that do, this is not an arithmetic equation. Because this is relational, this is geometry. This is greater than the sum of our parts. This is raising our vibrational awareness to link up and lift up. And as we do, it’s like sounding a note It’s like sounding a beautiful wake-up call that others hear and others come towards it because deep in themselves that note is already sounding. This is the journey I feel we’re now on and this journey of awakening and moving forward together and linking up and lifting up and leveling up and lighting up is one that I feel is accelerating all around.

Guy (29:41):
Yeah, I can’t agree more. Why now? Why is it happening in this time in history?

Dr. Jude (29:49):
It’s such a lovely question, and it’s why not now? because I think we’re ready. I think we’re ready as a species. We’ve come through, you know, two and a half thousand years ago, there was a real impulse and new ideas coming through our human family. And it began what’s being called the Axial Age. And it was things like the origins of Judaism, Christianity came through, Islam came through, Hinduism came through, Buddhism came through, Zoroastrianism came through. The beginnings of, you know, from Aristotle, a perception of what could be a scientific way of looking at the world came through. All of these ideas came through. And the last two and a half thousand years or so, they’ve continued to flow through our human story to this moment. But the last few hundred years, Part of that story was an approach to investigating and discovering more about the world that became a schism between spirituality or religion and science. There were really good reasons for that because religion had got to a fair amount of dogma. The medieval world was deep into superstition. and very authoritarian. You weren’t allowed, certainly in the West, in Europe, to think differently from what the church teachings said. So there was a need to move beyond that if discoveries would continue to be made. But those discoveries led us on a journey that told us that we were separate from each other, we were separate from the world around us, that the whole world was full of just separate objects. And that has involved a trauma, a collective trauma, a dis-ease of separation, a dis-ease which has got to a point of existential threat. And in teachings, in spiritual teachings, there are many ways to suggest that when an extreme comes forward, that there’s a sort of a flip. that the light becomes shadow, the shadow becomes light. Actually, the yin-yang symbol is a perfect symbol to show that. Within the yin, there is the beginnings of the yang. Within the yang, there is the beginnings of the yin. We’re at a point where we’re now opening because we’ve gone as far as we could, in a sense. in that extremism, it’s flipping. And not only that, when you look at the story of evolution, you get a situation where underlying, for example, ecosystems are what’s called attractor basins. And attractor basins hold all of the information that then appears as that ecosystem, yeah? And that goes on for a time because it holds within its boundaries. but then something occurs and the boundaries begin to fall away. They can’t hold. The climate might change. Something changes that doesn’t allow the stability of that ecosystem to continue, and it begins to fall away.

Guy (33:28):
But in evolutionary terms… You mentioned about the climate might change, you know, you were talking about.

Dr. Jude (33:36):
Yeah, what I was saying is that in evolution, underlying the appearance of our world, whether it’s meteorology, whether it’s an ecosystem, whatever it may be, are what’s called attractors and attractor basins. And what they embody is all of the information that then appears as the ecosystem. And the ecosystem can remain stable for a time, and the attractor based underneath it allows that variability within the ecosystem, and that stability of that ecosystem. But a time comes where that stability is challenged, and it might be challenged for a whole raft of reasons, environmentally. Or it may be changed because a consciousness that’s embodied in that appearance also changes. So, we have had an underlying attractor for our collective consciousness that has played out a worldview of separation. And that worldview of separation has caused us to behave in ways that fulfill that separation conflicts. We’ve treated our planetary home as something separate from us to be exploited and polluted. Yeah? We’ve gone to war with each other. We’ve hurt each other. We’ve put forward a world of inequalities. And yet, deep within our collective psyche, now we’re remembering that this is not who we really are. We are not separate. We are inseparable. So as that old attractor, that old paradigm, that old worldview has brought us to the edge of catastrophe, It’s unsustainable. It’s falling away. And a new attractor is being formed. And this new attractor is an attractor that remembers who we really are. It remembers that we are potentially co-evolutionary partners of our evolutionary universe. It’s an attractor that remembers that we’re inseparable. that we are meaningful microcosmic co-creators of a living and loving universe that’s inviting us to take our next step of conscious evolution. That is the attractor basin that is forming as the old attractor is falling away. It cannot hold.

Guy (36:22):
If the old paradigm dies, yeah, no, it’s really got me thinking. I remember interviewing physicist Tom Campbell a while back. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with him, but he spoke about consciousness and universes, a lowering of entropy, I believe. You might be able to correct me if I’m wrong here, but creating more order. And do you think Or do we have to have disorder for realignment of order at a higher level? I’m just using my own words here now. But there always seems to be like a breakdown before we break through.

Dr. Jude (37:01):
Sure. There’s two things at play here. And the first one is a misunderstanding of what entropy actually is. And physicists have also been part of this. And this has caused a lot of confusion. Because entropy, when it was originally brought forward as a concept, and the view of the entropy of a closed system, a contained system, always increases through time, yeah? Always increases through time. And then it’s understood that in a human body, of course, it’s very ordered. So if you see entropy as order to disorder, then humans shouldn’t exist. Planets shouldn’t exist. But we do. And the reason is that entropy is not about order to disorder, but it is about ever-increasing levels of energetic microstates. But now, and more importantly, and I don’t know if Tom’s aware of this, but quantum scientists are realizing that the concept of entropy isn’t sufficient to understand what we’re discovering of our universe. When we expand the notion of entropy from energetic microstates to informational content, entropy to entropy, We get a whole new understanding where there is no difficulty in bringing together humans and universes. We go back to the beginning of our universe, 13.8 billion years ago. It began in its lowest state of entropy, its lowest state of entropy, its lowest informational content, a baby universe. Ever since as space has expanded and time’s flowed forward, its entropy has increased. It’s undertaken this wonderful evolutionary journey from simplicity to complexity. So, everything along that way over those billions of years has been an increase in the informational content of our universe. Not a journey from order to disorder at all, but just a journey of increasing experience, exploration, complexity, abundance. So when a planet or when a person comes into a life It’s what’s known as an open system. Our universe is not open. Our universe is contained, which is why all its energy and matter are conserved throughout the whole story. They just change. It’s contained, but its entropy, its informational content increases. So when we come into our life or a planet comes into life, it’s what’s known as an open system. In other words, our planetary home is able to take sunlight from our star, from our sun. That sunlight enables everything on our planetary home, not just to exist, but to evolve. And what Gaia, we take energy in, our planetary home doesn’t need, she lets go into space. What a human being does is we’re part of that living system. So this is what we need, and what we don’t need flows through us, yeah? And as a result, the temperature of our bodies is higher than the temperature of our environment, just as our planetary temperature is higher than that of outer space, and that’s physics, okay? But when our bodies die, that energy flow through also ceases. So the temperature of our bodies just reverts to the planetary temperature. It doesn’t mean order to disorder and the information content continues throughout the life cycle of our universe. It just means that our individuated coherence, our individuated experience as a human being has come to its completion. If our Sun wouldn’t do what it’s likely to do, which is to grow to a red giant at the end of its life cycle, but to stay as it is, but just to cool down so that sunlight no longer poured onto our planetary home, our planet would cool too, because there would be no energy throughput, there would be no ability to sustain a living, sentient, planetary experience. So Tom perhaps could look at what we’re now realizing with this re-understanding of entropy to entropy, where there’s no reversal. It cannot reverse. There is never a reversal of entropy. It cannot do so throughout time. And when you look at it as informational content, it falls into place.

Guy (42:32):
Yeah, yeah, I got a couple of questions there. First, even with Tom, I’m not like, I’m paraphrasing him. And I believe he said lowering of entropy. But I don’t want to I don’t want to get his words muddled up either. Because I have no idea what I’m talking about, really. I just put like, I’m doing my best to keep up with you guys.

Dr. Jude (42:50):
So you’re doing brilliant and Tom too. But you asked another question, which is important for us. It’s do we need to go through disorder? to actually find order. And that goes back to, I think, what you were asking earlier about struggling. Do we need to struggle? I would say we don’t need to, but I would also say that sometimes we learn through that struggle. And I know my own life, I’ve learned through struggle. So I don’t think we necessarily need to, but I do feel that the challenges of life are part of the way we learn, part of the way we grow. We can ease them. I mean, I always say to people, and I know this in my own life, when it’s time for us to make a change, the universe taps us on the shoulder. If we ignore it and go on as we are, the universe taps us a bit harder on the shoulder. If we ignore that and go on as we are, the universe gives us a real thump between the eyes to wake us up, yeah? We don’t need the thumb between the eyes if we hear the universe’s tap on the shoulder. But sometimes we say, hey, we don’t listen to that tap on the shoulder. I just want to go on as I am, yeah? So in a way, it’s down to us, what do we choose? Do we choose to hear and listen? And that can be our intuition. It can be a health crisis. It can be all sorts of things. The question is, do we hear and listen or don’t we? And if we don’t, then in my experience, the struggle becomes more and more and more till we almost get to the bottom where we can take no more. When we have a health crisis, when we have a life crisis, where we have a burnout, whatever it may be, where we almost have to listen. And that’s the point I’m making.

Guy (44:52):
Yeah, no, absolutely. I just want to close. I’ve got like a kind of vague question mark on entropy in my brain, and I don’t even know if I can articulate the question correctly. But to summarize, entropy is constantly raising, increasing. Yes, yes. And it can never go back. So that means that energy into information. So the information is becoming greater.

Dr. Jude (45:21):
essentially. Think of energy as a subset of information because now we’re realizing that the appearance of our universe is energy and matter and space-time isn’t its more fundamental reality. That more fundamental reality is meaningful in formation. So when we talk about entropy, we’ve been used to talking about in terms of energy, And now we’re saying, let’s expand that, because it’s the same information. It’s actually the informational content of a system, in this case our universe, that always increases through time. And therefore, like entropy, it can’t be reduced, but it makes much more sense when we see it as the informational content of a system, because we can go back to the first moment of our universe, and see how ever since then, because I’m taught then, it’s been experiencing, expressing, manifesting ever more information. And I put a hyphen about meaningful information.

Guy (46:34):
Yeah. Are you optimistic about the future as we are going through this flip right now?

Dr. Jude (46:44):
I tend to describe myself as I hope a realistic optimist and an optimistic realist. It’s up to us. This really is our collective moment of choice. It really is. You know what I was saying about attract to basins when they can no longer hold our old paradigm can no longer sustain us. I do in the world, because if I wasn’t optimistic, I’d probably just go and hide under a duvet for the rest of my life. And I’m not going to be doing that to survive, let alone thrive. Our planetary home cannot sustain us if we aren’t able to wake up and remember who we really are. So, in a way, my optimism plays out in what I am. And I am optimistic because I’m with folks like you and all the folks who are listening and watching what you do and you’re part of all of this. I’ve been with about 150 podcast hosts over the last year. Who’ve invited me to share this and probably reached something like 2 million views so far, if not more. And that’s not a lot, but these ripples on ripples on ripples on ripples are happening. And I’m finding now that we wouldn’t be able to have this conversation even a few years ago. So that’s why I’m optimistic, because there are people like you and many, many, many others who are waking up to remember who we really are and then doing something about it. What is it? You transformed your life. when that realization came to you. And it can come in a hundred, a thousand, 10,000 tiny steps, but it’s just showing up. Keep showing up and getting out of the way and just keep on journeying on this incredible adventure because we’re all in it together.

Guy (48:58):
We are, we are. I’m aware of the time and I’m going to wrap up the podcast in a minute, but I got to ask you before we wrap it up. When you had your experience after three days of being, like you said, your body on fire through the energy moving through you, what did you do afterwards? Like, did you change career, quit your job? Did you just keep going? Just say, oh, thank you for that insight. I was already there. Like, what happened?

Dr. Jude (49:28):
Yes and no. Yes, yes and yes. I kept on keeping on. But what I did was I’d left my corporate life behind. I was very much moving on this journey. But I was so hanging on. I was hanging on to a big house. I was hanging on to what I thought I should be doing. And that experience just burnt that away. It just really clarified me to just let go, and keep letting go, and keep letting go, and keep letting go, and just, and yet keep showing up, but get out of the way, not trying to hang on to anything. Just really, it brought me to radical trust. It brought me to a radical trust in a living and loving universe, and a yes, a hundred percent yes to its invitation.

Guy (50:26):
Wow, radical trust. That’s another one that’s going to stand out for the rest of it, because I think we all crave it, and we all just want to let go and surrender and get out of our own way. But it takes courage to do so. And yeah, beautiful. I’m so glad I asked you that before we wrap it up. And the last question, Jude, well, there’s two questions. Where can everybody find more of your work and your books and everything you do? And obviously, you’ve been doing a lot of podcasts as well recently. Where can we send them to?

Dr. Jude (50:57):
Well, I’d love folks to visit the website. I say the website. When the Cosmic Hologram, not my final, my last book, the one before came out, I co-founded something called Whole World View, whole world hyphen view. And there’s a website whole world hyphen view dot org. And that’s a lot of the podcasts. I will certainly put this one up there, of course, and share it. But it’s also we offer a newsletter. There’s loads of resources there and invitations there for people just to be engaged. The website I’d invite folks to visit is www dot whole, W-H-O-L-E, world, W-O-R-L-D, hyphen, view, V-I-E-W, dot org.

Guy (51:45):
Beautiful. There’ll be a link in the show notes for everyone as well to go and come across and support you. So the last question for you, Jude, after everything we’ve covered today, what would you like to leave the listeners to ponder on?

Dr. Jude (51:57):
I’ve said it a couple of times, but a profound realization is that ours isn’t just a living and evolving universe that meaningfully exists and purposefully evolves as a unified whole. It’s a loving universe. And it’s a living and loving universe that we belong with and to. And we have meaning and purpose. We are its microcosmic co-creators. We can, if needed, to respond to. evolve to become its co-evolutionary partners. And that’s an invitation that I invite. I invite everyone.

Guy (52:46):
Beautiful, beautiful. Jude, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I know we had a couple of internet glitches, but boy, I’m going to re-listen to this at some stage and ensure I understand some of those concepts because they’re really powerful. Thank you. Thank you for sharing.

Dr. Jude (53:07):
Thank you, Guy. It’s been wonderful to be with you. And I’m visiting Wales soon, so I’ll say hello for you.

Guy (53:12):
Please do. It’s beautiful. As long as you don’t get the rain, you’ll have a great time.

Dr. Jude (53:19):
Even in the rain, we’ll have the blessings of the rain, but absolutely.

Guy (53:22):
Thank you. Thank you.