Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Guy 00:00
Jan, welcome to the podcast.

Jan 00:09
I’m so happy to be here with you. Thank you, guy.

Guy 00:12
You’re very welcome. I just checking out your work earlier, you seem a very busy woman, it’s quite incredible. Some of the things you’ve achieved, I was looking at, I think it’s your 11th book, as well you’ve written which always blows my mind. When people produce and do these things, you know, you’ve travelled the world, you’ve run retreats, workshops, events. So and this is why I’m gonna start with this question for you. Because I love to hear what people say is that if you’re at an intimate dinner party, and you set night, the sat next to a stranger, and they ask you what you did for a living, what would you say?

Jan 00:51
I would say, I work, I play, I pray, and I serve. And I’m a servant of unity. So everything I do all my books, all my workshops, all my retreats, are in the service of unity, which in real life terms means I help people to put their dualities together and come to a higher understanding of the Oneness that we’re part of.

Guy 01:26
Okay.

Jan 01:27
And it’s tricky, but

Guy 01:30
it’s not. What what’s your typical response? Do you find yourself you’re just around people that are searching for those things? Or? Or do you find people are just closed off to these things open to these things? What’s been your experience?

Jan 01:47
It’s about both, I think, because in my own family, you know, I come from a pretty big tribe. So I have, say, 65, first cousins, I would say, out of those 65, there may be eight to 10, who would be at all interested in what I do, or consider themselves on an evolutionary spiritual path. So I don’t know what proportion of the people that is, I have a brother and a sister, and I’m the only one that does this kind of work and has this kind of focus. And I think that’s why we’re in trouble, globally, is because people have been taught that the God out there is handling everything. I mean, we sing a song, he’s got the whole world in His hands. And I think that lets us off the hook. And that the new I think there’s a big distinction between faith and religion. But the new religion, or the new spirituality that’s coming into focus now is one that would have us understand the nature of our own creative ability and responsibility. So that’s what I stand for. I think it’s a prophetic message, because it hasn’t landed in the public’s imagination, yet, so that, you know, I’m not saying, Give up god, I’m just saying, elevate yourself to the status of sacred and see that we have, from our imagination, inward. The ability to create, I mean, we, you and I created, that we’re sitting here today, that we’re going to have a 45 minute long conversation, and that you’re going to broadcast it out to the world, we created that. And now we know that we’re going to be influencing, influencing people’s thoughts. So that’s not something God is doing. That’s something we are doing. And you know, Jesus, he’s not my only master teacher, but he’s probably the primary one said, I and the Father are one. He’s one with that great force. And he says, anything you see me do, you can do and even more. So my interpretation of that is, we’re the same as Jesus was, and he did miraculous things, or maybe not miraculous is surprising and ultra human, but that we’re capable of that, too. So that’s what I’m going for.

Guy 04:54
I love it.

Jan 04:55
I love it. And for Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Guy 04:58
You know, it’s fascinating. And this conversation comes up quite a lot on my podcast because you know, I was somebody that was not brought up in any any religious shape or form, and I didn’t never had any kind of structure. And I never really questioned the larger reality, if you like the law of the universe itself and why we here and all these things and but but a series of events, I guess led me to having to flip the camera lens back on myself and start to look within for answers as opposed to looking externally all the time. And but it took me a long time before, before I kind of started to get there. And my genuine concern is at the moment is then having some experiences to I guess reinforce a new belief structure within myself and who I am and what I’m actually capable of. looking outside in the world today, I feel so many of us are still very disconnected because there’s so much fear. There’s there’s so much uncertainty going on. What how do we start, then, in your your view? How do we then start to get back to connect back to that deeper aspect of ourselves?

Jan 06:17
Well, this is the part that’s so weird, because it’s very, very easy. It doesn’t require money, luck, good looks, or a particular sex or gender is totally accessible. But the experience relies on us making a time commitment to take the call, right? So every day, I say every day, if you really want to have the extraordinary life, you came here to have to understand the purpose of your life to be ensconced in the passion of it, then you have to make a commitment to have a relationship with the invisible forces. And what that means is that you set aside time that you sit in silence, because they don’t speak our language. And that you just let yourself Imagine you’re being communicated to just like the trees. And eventually, you can distinguish the communication from the voices in your head. And it happens more and more consistently. More and more profoundly. And your life opens up, like the flower like the bud flowers. And people will say, Oh, I don’t, I don’t have time to meditate. They say I don’t even put a word around it like meditate. I just say, shut up. And say hello. And just acknowledge, you know, every morning, I like my candle because I don’t do close, I’d silences or meditations. I’d like the candle, and I stare into the candle because that to me represents the great mystery. So I started out in 1990 doing it just for 20 minutes. And now I’ll do it. I didn’t know I might be there. 40 minutes, 15 minutes, because I’m aware of the privilege and the opportunity in the magic of how communion works with creation itself. I don’t feel like I feel like I’m a satellite dish to mind at large to Supreme Intelligence. it saturates me, it penetrates me. It fuses me, it informs me. And so I would never let a day pass. Where that’s not part of my day.

Guy 09:25
You have beautiful why why 1990 What was the driving factor then for you to start?

Jan 09:33
It was because I my I had just started graduate school and my life was kind of falling apart because I was in my 40s I wasn’t jiving with the 20 year olds that were there. And I was there at the behest of a good friend of mine. She’s a nun. very intuitive. So I call her my psychic non guru. And she’s the one that suggested I go to grad school. So When it came time for me to say I’m going to quit. Because it wasn’t joyful enough. I called her up to say, I know you had a was a good idea, but it’s not working for me. So I wanted you to hear from me that I’m quitting. And her response, she asked me three questions in response. They were Are you eating and drinking moderately? Do you have a spiritual practice? And how are you taking care of your body? I didn’t have one good answer to any of those things. My life was totally out of balance. So she said, before you quit grad school, begin a spiritual practice, start exercising your body and start eating and drinking moderately. So that’s what happened. I went out and bought a bicycle that day started riding my bicycle to school, I started having a plant based diet, only drinking wine on the weekends. And my spiritual practice was exactly the same as what I did this morning. candle on the TV at the end of my bed was what it looked like, in 1990. Now I have a whole little altar set up. So I was resistant to it, because it was like, I don’t want to have a spiritual pet. What does that mean? How do you do it? That it uh, I had done meditation? What do you call that to meditation in the 70s. I didn’t find that satisfactory. I’d been in the convent for two years. And we had to meditate all the time. But that was just the perfect environment. It was a gorgeous chapel was always silent, was ready made for success. So it was a departure for me, too, in the secular world, develop the spiritual life. But I was committed to it, because I did truster. And I’m committed to my life being extraordinary. Hence, I’ve not stopped doing it. In fact, I do it more and more all the time.

Guy 12:29
Beautiful. I am, you know, thinking about that what was coming into me, then was because I watched your TEDx talk recently. And you talk about the 100 watt light bulb we born with this radiant, bright light. When we when we come to planet earth, and over time, culturally and everybody else’s opinions kind of, I guess dims our light that’s within us. And I was thinking about that very thing when you as he was showing you how you got into your practice. And what what really struck a chord with me researching you, Jan was that you spoke about, you know, you’re contemplating suicide by the by the age of 12. And how much do you think that as all morphed into allowing you to have this spiritual expression these days? What happened? Did you have to go through that to then, I guess, be as committed as you are now? because quite often we hear of people having their own traumas and their own difficulties before finding this work. Do you think that needs to be the case? There’s quite a few questions in there. So I’m just gonna

Jan 13:43
let you know that it needs to be the case. I do think that our wisdom comes from the turbulence that we accept and process and recover from. So for me that I was 12 years old and suicidal it was because I realised then and puberty that I was homosexual. And there were no kind words for that phenomenon. And back in the mid 60s, it was awful. What perverts, queers lessees, Bull dykes, fa**ts, that’s all you ever heard. And every message you got from movies, culture, TV, your parents, the church, the nuns, was it hardly anything is worse than a homosexual and that it’s a terrible sin. So I was a very good Catholic. I believed everything. And so I believe that really hard And believing it met all. I’m such a terrible person I was made wrong, this is wrong with me. So I’m just gonna kill myself. And so I was saved by my sixth grade nun who recognise, she didn’t know why I was in trouble. But she knew I was looking very sad and depressed and no vitality. So she started this campaign of positive reinforcement, she got my mother involved with it. So for a couple months, the two of them spent a great deal of energy affirming me and applauding me. And one day, it happened that the little sad, Caterpillar flew off in butterfly form. And when that happened, I made the connection. Oh, my heavens, nuns have some kind of magic wand or superpower. I want to be one of them. Because they knew magic. She saved my life. And so I decided that at age 12, I would become a nun. And that never wavered. And so I went off to become a nun at age 18. And I was there two years, and then they figured out that, yes, it is true, she is queer. And we can’t tolerate that. So they sent me home after two years, which to me was the worst. Let’s say trauma of my life, which took 20 years to get over which Wow, I did. But I think that has been contributing to my, to the magnitude of my life, that I worked so hard for all those years. to reconcile that terrible rejection and disappointment, and my my life is turning out to be a magnificent experience and opportunity for me to be a voice about the difficult things. That’s why I have 11 books, because every time I encounter what people are saying, I can’t do this, I can’t do this. Because usually it’s because of cultural religious messaging. And it’s people are just permeable. To be they allow, we allow ourselves to be covered up to have our light, be our light bulb be covered up by the debris of others, other people’s bad thoughts. It’s like we were walking through a dust storm. And we’re not protected, and we come out covered with dirt. So the metaphor of thinking of ourselves as 100 watt ball means we have to consciously like, clean ourselves off, make sure we’re operating from our own original thoughts, and not from thoughts that we’ve accumulated or inherited from any other authority, but ourselves.

Jan 13:49
I think you use the term info synthesis. Is that correct?

Jan 18:43
I didn’t use that term. Yeah. It’s a term that its partner term is photosynthesis. And I think humans experience info synthesis. And if you take a tree, how does photosynthesis work? They do magic because they take nothing in converted into food, sugar, chemicals, everything that the roots, the branches need. The tree converts sunlight and moisture into food, because they have a magic ingredient. The Magic couldn’t ingredient is called chlorophyll. And that allows them to do that transformation of nothing into something of air and sunlight into food and nutrients. So I think we’re nature so when I think oh, the trees do it, the plants do it called photosynthesis. We do it. How do we do it? Well, human beings take in information, right and we convert it in to inspiration, I convert, I have music, I write songs, I sing, I have CDs, I write poetry. So I convert the information that comes my way through experience or reading or whatever. And my magic ingredient, my chlorophyll is called the imagination. So, everything I do, every book I write, it’s just a conversion of what’s happened to me. And I make sense of it, and I give it back to you in a beautiful form. And that would be called creativity, but it’s what we’re all doing all day long. Most people don’t even do it consciously. But I do it consciously

Guy 20:55
begin to select the thoughts that we want to hang on to, to to then create from that place, which can be challenging especially if we’re not looking after our body. Like you mentioned earlier. You know, if we were we’re not exercising if we’re not moving, it can feel like gravity gets heavier and heavier sometimes around Yeah, I’m, I’m curious as well that because you talk quite a lot about beliefs and and I was hearing an interview with you is quite an old one. And, and I’d love to touch on this as well, because I think it’s very poignant to what’s going on in the world right now where you, you share the a bit of a story that you were doing interviews on people’s values, I think in a small town, and you you’re you are quick to put people in a box and pigeonhole a belief if they’re not actually fitting into your belief, structure, or paradigm. And now if you can recall a story that you were talking about, with the gentleman you want to interview and you never wanted to interview him, because he had all these magazines pulled out to the table

Jan 22:09
because he was a right wing, john birch, staunch, conservative, racist guy in the south. And I was at his house to interview his sister who was the mother of one of my friends. And so while I was there at the homestead in Pikeville, Kentucky, Arthur, the man comes home, I’d already seen his his space in the house when his sister showed me around the house, she said, this is Arthur’s space, it was a living room. That’s where I saw all the john birch materials, all the stuff about guns on all the just materials that made me feel not safe, not loved, like this guy. certainly would not appreciate that I was gay. And so I had categorised him as don’t want to spend any time with him. So I had, I was done interviewing. Her name was babe Logan, I was done interviewing her. And then Arthur comes in the house and he says, When will you interview me? Which made me feel like I can’t just say, No way Jose. And I looked over babe and I go, she goes, we’ll stay overnight and do him in the morning. So I did that I stayed overnight. At 8:30. Arthur tells me meet him outside on the front porch. We go there, I have my little pad and paper. I’m already as a journalist to do a interview. And he just stands up and goes, follow me. Scatter slow walk and stick his little hat on. So he starts walking around the yard. Pointing out things with such verb with so much love and vitality. I remember him pointing over to the black walnut things that had fallen off the tree and he puts his cane over there and he goes, look at the walnuts over there. How does it happen that in a short period of time, those nuts become so hard. I can’t even open them with my hand I have to have a hammer or tool to open them up and when you open them, Look what’s inside the richness is inside. What power is In the world, he’d say, what powers loose in the world many swing around to where he’s got garden with these corn stocks growing. He did the same thing about corn. Because you open up that stock of corn, what are you going to find? You’re going to find row after row of golden colonels all lined up perfectly, like a miracle. Look powers loose in the world. And so now he has reverence for nature. His reverence for life itself, his own vitality is just like being exported out of him right into me. And I fell in love with Arthur that day. And so that little box that I had put him in, disappeared, and tell the truth, I stayed for the next three days, because he wanted to show me the whole land. And so we basically got very, very close, because we were outside in nature in his woods, for those three days very intimate understanding of the natural world, and how sacred it is. And he confessed to me before I left, he said, Here I am, 87 years old. I love the trees so much. But I never made it to the redwoods. And I said, Arthur, you’re only 87. There’s still time, get on a bus, you can go to the redwoods. He says, No, I can’t go. I’m too old. I let it pass me by. So I left. And then and I was going only going to small towns. And so I would always go to the drugstore. I go to the card section, I’d look for a card that had a tree on it. And I’d send it back to Arthur saying, dear Arthur, it’s not too late. Get to the redwoods. And so he probably got 12 or 13 of those cards for me because I was on the road on Yeah, yeah, three months, right. And then when I get back to Syracuse, New York, I go to pick up my box full of mail from the post office. And on the very top is a postcard from the Sequoia National Forest, where the biggest trees in this country are. And it was from Arthur. And he said, Dear Jan, if it hadn’t been for you, I never be here today. I love you so much. Thank you for helping me. So he got to see the sequoias in the redwoods. And he lived to tell about it. So that’s, you know, that’s how we help each other.

Guy 28:14
It’s a beautiful story. And what do you think is the lesson from it? If everyone listening because I think especially in this day and age, it’s so polarising, there’s so many, it’s so much division. And we’re very quick to to judge.

Jan 28:34
Yeah, let’s just put myself in the shoes of well, you know, some people here call him trumpists or trumpers. Let’s just say I was the trumper. Back then, who had an opinion about Arthur, who might have been the liberal or progressive that the trumper didn’t want to experience, right. I don’t know what it was that caused. You know, there’s some kind of outside grace that arranged for the circumstances to be different from what I had decided, because I had decided I don’t want to talk to this man. But he wanted to talk to me. So we made that possible. And as a result, whatever polarisation existed between us. On my side was my own projection of his, how different he was for me. I can’t speak for him. But he didn’t like gays. He didn’t like liberals. He didn’t like pacifists. I was in all those categories. So I knew based on his politics, that if he knew those things about me, he wouldn’t be So friendly, but grace occurred in will lead us into mother into nature. And there, we fell in love with each other. So I think there’s a couple lessons in it. One is, be careful who you lock your gate on, because you might be keeping out people that are very lovable. And I think the second one is, never forget, you can help somebody achieved their dream that they wouldn’t be able to accomplish on their own.

Guy 30:51
Beautiful. You, I, I’m keen to explore this area a little bit more, because you even in your latest book, you use the word mystic and spirituality. And I found in my own journey, that for a while it was it was very much just philosophy. I was just reading and slowly leaning in. And then there was some definitive points, I guess, where the the embodiment of the work was the greater teacher than the philosophy of the book, or the podcast, or the or the listening to. And with somebody like yourself that, you know, clearly had some trauma, like you said, you had a very traumatic experience at 21, when you were asked to leave the, you know, from being suicidal, at 12 years old. Was there a period of time where you felt, I guess, been blown around in the wind. And it was, was there a definitive point where that embodiment where that knowing started to really come into your life? So you could then make strides moving forward? Or was it just the gradual progression over time? I’m curious,

Jan 32:11
I think on this, on the spiritual level, um, yeah, I was blowing around in the wind, probably for at least 10 years, from kicked out when I was 20. And found my path when I was in my 30s, or 40s, maybe 49, to 99. In my 40s, so I spent a lot of time adrift, spiritually speaking, I was a political activist, social activist, feminist, gay activist, did a lot, you know, marches. I’m a photo journalist. So I covered all the demonstrations started out being anti nuclear work. My trip around the world was, you know, anti nuclear. So it wasn’t until I encountered sister Paula who said, you have to have a spiritual practice or your life will never work. So say, 89 1990, when the very first week that I started my practice, I experienced great luck and great a great reward. Because I felt someone talking to me. And I had a journal by my bed, and I wrote down some phrases that I felt were being transmitted. And some of those words just became a song, it very effortlessly. And within the first, say, six months of my spiritual practice, I had written probably five or six songs, wow. About the spiritual experience. So to me, that was that great gift was a big encouragement for me. You know, it could have been otherwise. And I’m not saying on a seven days a week, that great things happen in every meditation. I mean, every other day, you sit there and nothing happens. Right? There’s constant distractions and nothing may happen. But the thing that’s important is you’re there to say hello, I’m here. You’re the SAT. I must satellite dish for you come in coming clearly. However it is, you know, it’s not churchy to me. I don’t have, you know, relics at my altar. But I do have symbols of earth air fire in water. You know, I think there was a mystic Terra de shard down, who said, the real religion of the Earth is coming in now to take over for the religion of the heavens. And I think that’s what’s true that we all learned Moses, Abraham, Jesus talked about heaven. You know, and that was at a time when people thought the earth was flat. In the theology at the time, you know, had different stratosphere hours, it, you know, they could draw where heaven was, we stand here, and then there’s the air, and then there’s heaven in the clouds. So you end up with the Sistine Chapel, representing what heaven looks like God on the cloud, every buddy can, probably has that image in their head from seeing it somewhere, God on a cloud, the beard, the angels, etc. But I think it’s the job of us, as evolutionary creators, conscious creators, that we’re now co creating the universe. Initially, it was just the universe being created the unfolding of divinity. But now humans have evolved, and we have consciousness, and we have power and authority. And so my town looks like it looks because I’m in it. You know, I make a dent in San Diego would you know your place, your community, it looks like it looks because you’re in it, a dinner party that I attend is different from a dinner party that doesn’t have me at the table. Because we have agency we say things of consequence, we help people become more creative and understand their own gifts. And so, to me, the spiritual practice moves us closer and closer to that sense of union with the very thing we can’t touch. So that my perception now of divinity is the air I breathe, in the air in my lungs, in the oxygen in my blood. That’s how close the whole shebang is, to me. I’m like a particle to the wave of particles, you can see waves you can’t see. But energy is one or the other simultaneously, and it goes back and forth constantly. So when you can see it, it’s us. And when you can’t see it, it’s god

Guy 38:15
a beautiful explanation. Whoa, what do you feel in? This might be a big question, but not I guess, is the purpose of being here then? Honest.

Jan 38:30
I think our purpose of being here is to understand the responsibility that we’re co creators, and that the phenomenon of life on earth is in our hands. We’ve got the whole world in our hands, right? It’s not somebody outside, it’s us. We’re responsible. Now, for the ozone. We’re responsible for the mess in the ocean, we’re responsible for the rivers being polluted for the water in Flint, Michigan, killing people. You know, those are our that’s our industrial outputs, right. And so I think that for us to stop abdicating power and saying, God’s overseeing everything, is what we’re here for. That we’re, you know, the flip side of God going back into its godness. We’re just divinity is materialising in us. And we in turn, denies matter. So it’s one cyclical thing at that was kind of how Kennedy shared and described it. Yeah.

Guy 39:55
Are you How do you feel about the future with everything going on right now and are you optimistic?

Jan 40:04
I’m glad I’m 72. I’m glad I’m not just starting out, I fear and have concern for the children who are already anxious and fearful. But the only thing that saves me is every day, I do something to make the world a better place. And so that’s all I can do. You know, it could be just reach out to someone with a phone call. You know, I have a foundation. I give scholarships, I organise programmes, I do anti racist work. Right? We all have to just tune in to what am I here to do? And I think the answer comes from what most breaks your heart open. Right? If you say to me, oh, it’s the whales, or Oh, it’s killing of the porpoises or Oh, it’s the puppy factories, then I save and go there and do your work there. For me, it’s the social problem of racism that our country is founded on and grounded in. And white people are so resistant to learning about acknowledging and doing anything about our role in it, because black communities cannot do it by themselves. Takes a massive number of conscious white people to work together to solve this problem.

Guy 41:51
Yeah, yeah. I yeah, I personally, I feel, I don’t know whether it’s because my eyes are more open than they were five years ago or 10 years ago. But and I’m biassed Lee seeing through my lens. Now, but I do genuinely feel more and more people are gravitating to this work and wanting to learn more and, and, and explore these options. You know, the role of consumerism especially doesn’t seem to be as fulfilling? I don’t know, maybe, maybe I’m seeing it through rose coloured glasses. I’m not sure.

Jan 42:26
What was it that got you on the path?

Guy 42:29
pain, pain? By then, I will do it. Yeah, it would. It was a it was a very slow burning, loneliness. But at the end of the day, I there was something strong enough in me not to settle in the way that everyone was kind of conditioning me to be and become. But from breaking away from that, it led to a great deal of unhappiness, because I knew I didn’t want that. But I didn’t know what I wanted either. I just never felt like I fit it in for a long time. But once I opened my heart, and really started to connect back to that, and start to understand the words in the work that I was actually reading it, you know, things, things change very quickly for me. And actually, a lot of courage and confidence came from that. And then I guess realising who and what we really are, and allowing that aspect of ourselves to express ourselves more on a daily basis, and overcome the old beliefs, the paradigms that the things that were there and understanding that more. And I will say, jan, as well, you know, I’ve been I’ve been podcasting since 2012, between my last company in this one, and I’ve probably spoken to over three 300 peoples 250 people have experience like yourself, and every time I sit down with someone, I I learned something new. I always come in with a beginner’s mind. And it’s astonishing what how that impacted my life as well. You know, so it’s, it’s wonderful. And, you know, what resonated with me with what you shared then was that, you know, where, where the pain is in your heart, if you follow you know, what breaks your heart and start to lean into that. For me it was once I had these realisations is that other people don’t realise their own potential. And that was what was really getting to me, hence why I started this. And following that, and by doing that, things have continued to open up for me. So good. Yeah, it’s been been very special. I got a couple of questions for you before we wrap things up. And one is with your latest book. Still on fire. What Why did you write this book this year 11th book And what are your hopes to come out of it?

Jan 45:05
Well, there’s two major things. One is the subtitle is field notes from a queer mystic. So I wanted to speak from the experience of an outsider who’s been marginalised and criticised and hurt by many institutions along the way. Because I have nothing to lose now. And there are plenty of LGBTQ people who have a lot to lose, starting with their lives by coming out. So that was one to give the perspective of a person who’s a good person, social activist, doing good work was in the church did become a nun. And has left that all behind in order to be the one who experiences the great mystery, and speaks from the perspective of present to this, not just yearning for it. I tell everyone, I’m not a seeker. I’m a Finder. So I have found what I was looking for. And so the best thing that this book can do for the reader is one, help them figure out how to get disentangled from religious doctrine that they’ve inherited, that might be hurting them, or constraining them, or keeping them from their own authentic magnitude. So that’s one thing because religions tried to keep a small, you know, families try to keep the small that basically it might be that they want to protect you like, when you when the kid comes out to the parent, the parent might go, Oh, no, the kid might get killed, she’s gonna suffer terribly, let’s keep her in the closet, right? Let’s tell her to change that plan become something else. It’s their, you know, their fear of very real danger. But it’s never helpful. So it shows all the steps in the inside the bottom side, the underside of all the decisions we need to make, in order to rule out that other people have anything to do with the direction of my life. So I think it’s very valuable. It’s not just for LGBT community. I think it even offers more to people who are not gay, because they have never had this experience, and they’ve never been able to look at it from the inside out. So my feeling is just like when I read books, like about white privilege, or racism and the caste system, cast was one of those books. I mean, I’ve got like eight or 10 books on my bedside stand now that have me become aware of racism, because I’m hearing from black voices, who are guiding me into experiences that I never had, because the privilege of my white skin, the same would be true for a queer to guide the reader into an awareness of how frighteningly dangerous this life has been and continues to be for people who are on the margins. Like LGBT. Q people.

Guy 48:56
Yeah. Yeah. No, thank you for sharing. I you know, it’s, I think, I think in some ways, we all feel a bit like outsiders if we don’t fit in, depending on our upbringing and what we’ve been doing. So you know, like you said, I think it will relate to a lot of people. I am, I got one last question for you to wrap up the show and ask everyone on the show. And that is with everything we’ve covered today. Is there anything you’d like to leave our listeners to ponder on?

Jan 49:32
Yeah, most importantly, I’d like them to ponder on. Why it really, why are they not true to a spiritual practice? really explore what keeps you because even if you set aside five minutes a day, let’s just say five. I said 20 for me, but say five and just the only rules are solitude in silence, don’t have your puppy there, don’t have your toddler there in light a candle because that could help. But really, if you have a resistance to silence and solitude and and the chance that you might actually hear heaven breaking loose for you, then something’s wrong. And I think I encourage people to go down into that to see what is that fear about? Why are you resisting your whole life opening up the end

Guy 50:44
now a beautiful and a beautiful place to end the conversation on Jan. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and all that you do. And and I have no doubt everyone listening today we’ll get we’ll get something out of our conversation. And for anyone listening as well. All the links. If you want to grab John’s book or find out more about john. It’ll all be in the show notes, whether it be on the podcast or YouTube. It’s all there just below whatever platform you’re having. They’re on so be sure to go and check out so Jan, thank you again, my lovely chatting to you and appreciate being able to share this with everyone. Thank you. All

Jan 51:19
right. I look forward to the link. Thanks. Bye now.