Please note, this is an automated transcript so it is not 100% accurate.

Anoop:
And this is the beginning of the dissociation that happens early in life. We dissociate into just a physical thing. You have somebody who has a quote unquote spiritual experience or some kind of expansion, and what they’re really doing is just reassociating. I was sitting at a desk pretty much like I’m sitting now.

And it was like the explosion just went off like a big kaboom and there I was it felt like I was sitting in the middle of the sun just a brilliant blaze of beauty. Then I had the chance to leave the body, leave the lifetime I should say. This being of light stepped forth and instilled the notion that it wasn’t time.

And then afterwards I remember going into the bathroom and didn’t recognize the guy in the mirror. They taught me so much about what we call mental illness. I taught me so much about how we think of medicine taught me so much about the spiritual traditions. I’m very grateful for that.

Guy:
powerful podcast with Dr. Anoop Kumar. It blows my mind that this information isn’t more mainstream, but I do feel that it’s going that way. And at least these conversations are getting out there. Dr. Kumar not only spoke about his mystical experiences when he was in medical school, but he also discusses the complexity of what it means to be human and how we can all reclaim, I guess, our divine right to be happy, wholesome, healthy human being, which is what it’s all about, right at the end of the day, how are we showing up in our lives right now?

Fantastic conversation. If you enjoy it, please let me know your thoughts in the comments below. Let me know where you are in the world as well. It’s continually great to connect. And of course, if you want to join us at one of our retreats this year and really dive into the spiritual aspects of what we do with Live In Flow, links are below as well.

We’ll be in Bali, Croatia and Australia. And of course, within Australia, we’ll be doing one day workshops up and down the country. Anyway, much love from me. Enjoy this conversation with Dr. Anoop Kumar. It’s awesome.

Anoop, welcome to the podcast.

Anoop:
Thank you Guy. Good to see you.

Guy:
You know, I find, um, in all honesty, I think you’re a rare breed of a human being, which is wonderful. you’re a doctor and you’re speaking about all sorts of topics that are very dear to my heart. And I’ve had the good fortune of meeting you.

Anoop:
I’ve had a neurosurgeon on you once, I’ve had an ex ER doctor, an ex paramedic talking about other aspects of what it means to be human. And I’m really looking forward to diving into that with you today. But my first question is just for the listeners, if they’re not familiar with who you are or what you do, I always love to say if you were at an intimate dinner party and sat next to a complete stranger and they asked you what you did for a living, how would you answer it? Oh, that would totally depend on who they were and what stage of life they’re in. Uh, but nevertheless, uh, I’ll give you, I’ll give you one version, um, which is that I believe healing is possible. And what I’ve seen in my professional work in the emergency department is that a lot of people don’t necessarily think that, or don’t think there’s science behind that.

They want to believe that they’re not sure. And what I like to do is spread the word that healing is possible, that people are healing from all kinds of things all over the place. Um, and I would like to systematize that. and offer that to the world,

Guy:
Incredible, and I’m keen to get into your own backstory, your own journey and your own spiritual aspects, because I believe you had a near death like experience as well that you you talk about, which I’m really excited to dive into. But before that, what does the word heal mean to you?

Anoop:
Heal to me means whole. Um, we know that whole comes from or heal comes from the word whole. Um, and the real question is what does whole mean? Um, and I think it’s a beautiful question. It’s a deep question. It’s a powerful question. It’s a question in a way that’s always here, wherever we are. And, uh, I don’t necessarily think it needs an answer in words, but if we ask the question, then we can always have in our experience, what I’m experiencing now is this whole, in every sense of the imaginable word, and maybe even something unimaginable. Is this whole? And I think the question is enough. Um, from there we can derive many meanings of healing or, you know, becoming whole. Um, but I think in our deepest nature, we are already whole and there’s an aspect of us, the personality, uh, and the body and the lifetime that expresses in a particular way.

And it’s that aspect that’s on this journey. Uh, discovering what it already is and its depth and somewhere in there is whole healing and wholeness and even dis ease.

Guy:
Yeah. Why, why do you think, like, if we look at the statistics that are out there right now, they’re pretty alarming. And in some ways, I’ve almost become accepted, and that’s just quite normal. When, but, To me it’s it’s shocking and I’ve got two young children and I really am concerned about The systems that are in place that I don’t think are well, they’re not as effective at this current time What do you what do you feel is?

Stopping this message from really cutting through and just coming out. Cause like for me, what you’re doing is very authentic. It’s very real. It’s very genuine. It’s very, it’s whole. We’re looking at the body as a whole, not just a mechanistic individualized parts of the body that is symptom treated, you know?

Anoop:
I think we could identify it at, at many levels. I think one of the key areas that I focus on is education. Um, I think in this society and, and I mean pretty much the world over, uh, Um, I think school is radically incomplete. The formal educational system is very incomplete. Um, for example, it teaches us in the beginning, it teaches us about our body parts.

It’s one of the first things. Even our parents likely taught it, you know, this is your eye, this is your nose, this is your hand. And we start to learn that, okay, we are these parts, right? But, but rarely do our beginning teachers, whether it’s parents or somebody else say, this is wonder. This is expansiveness. is space, this is joy, this is sadness, this is fear, right? It’s always eyes, ears, nose, and then clap for Anoop and clap for Guy because you named your parts, right? And this is the beginning of the dissociation that happens early in life. We dissociate into just a physical thing. And we’re rewarded for dissociating. Into just being a physical thing. And then in formal education, it continues, right? Science. And we’ve all played with the little balls and sticks that are the atomic model. And guess what? That’s what we learned. That’s what we are apparently. Right. And then your salary becomes dependent on telling that story. Um, and then we learn a very incomplete view of science where we have to minimize our subjective experience. It’s called bias. And who wants to be biased? Bias is bad, right? So you minimize the subject of experience in the term of bias, and you want to learn what the objective world is, which is again, the atomic, the part, the particulate body. So for all these reasons, I think education is the, is the main barrier. And then, you know, you have somebody who has a quote unquote, spiritual experience or some kind of expansion or some, something happens in their life. And what they’re really doing is just reassociating.

Guy:
Yeah.

Anoop:
associating again, with what they knew once way back, way, way back before, before that kind of conceptual mind came in, um, and there’s this journey that everybody’s going through, whether it’s through spirituality. Or whether it’s through psychedelics or whether it’s through some kind of addiction or food, everybody’s trying to reassociate with this deeper, fuller wholeness that we are. So that’s the level at which I engage is at the level of, let’s say, understanding and allowing this experience that we already are to come to the forefront.

Guy:
I absolutely love it. I feel like a cheerleader listening to you right now, honestly. I, um, were you raised like that with those teachings in, in mind, the things that you speak of?

Anoop:
So I was raised in a way that. I, I kind of understood some of these things. I mean, I still had to go through the journey myself. So I was born here in Washington DC and we moved back to India to a small village in Kerala in South India when I was six months of age. So that allows for some, at least as a child, that expansiveness, you know, running around barefoot. You know, it’s warm rain and the, all the fruits and it’s, it’s, it’s great. And my grandmother was there, so I could do no wrong. Right. It’s, it’s, it’s a great, it’s a great start. Um, and then I came back when I was about five and a half years old, uh, to the United States. Um, and I noticed the difference. I immediately noticed the difference, uh, that it looked like people were in boxes.

I used to people watch from the balcony of our apartment and people were just in their boxes and scuttling about. And, you know, I wasn’t thinking about intellectually, but I, you could feel there’s some kind of difference. And in some ways, maybe romantically or classically or in a very generalized way, you could say that’s East and West in some sense, right? Um, I don’t, I don’t know how accurate that is, but you get the idea of that. And then I was exposed very much to the philosophy and spirituality of, of non duality of Advaita. of the oneness that unites all apparent differences across the cosmos. Um, and then those building blocks were there. And then later when things really opened up, then I kind of looked back to, Oh, that’s what all that meant, you know, and all the pieces fell into place.

Guy:
Yeah, beautiful. It’s great that you were, you could have that contrast, right? And then you experience it one side to another. I certainly didn’t have that growing up. when you spoke about leaning into that expansiveness and oh that’s what they were talking about reading because that’s what it felt like for me when I started to have my own awakening per se.

What did that look like? How old were you? And because you spoke of a near death like experience we might as well jump into that now if you’re okay.

Anoop:
I think the most the most traumatic was in my 20s in my late 20s. Um, I would say they were probably these little um, I guess openings, uh miniature openings earlier in life in my teens who were, you know, sometimes I just wouldn’t I would feel like I wasn’t in my body and I was up in the sky and I could see the car that my body was in traveling below and these kinds of blips were there uh, but the the kind of dramatic one was in my Late 20s 20s when I was in medical school and I was home Um, and I was I was sitting at a desk very much like i’m sitting now Um, and it was like explosion just went off like a big kaboom And there I was it felt like I was sitting in the middle of the sun just a brilliant blaze of beauty and uh For some for some period of time and then I had the chance to leave the body leave the lifetime I should say Um, I had already kind of left the body but at that point to leave the lifetime You And just as I was about to make that step, it felt like everything was complete, you know, talk about wholeness.

It felt like, all right, this is what I was wanting for the first 20 something years. I could tell that, right. That was, and it was done. Um, and then just as I was about to leave this being of light stepped forth and, uh, basically instilled the notion that it wasn’t time and it wasn’t fair. It wasn’t time yet.

There was more to be done that kind of wasn’t in words, but that intimation came into the mind. Um, and that gave me pause, you know, as I was just about to kind of take that last step and close the door and that gave me pause. And that’s, and then, you know, shot back into the body. And, uh,

Guy:
moly.

Anoop:
that was,

Guy:
Yeah, I didn’t know that. See, all I knew was that you had a near death like experience. I purposely

Anoop:
Oh, right.

Guy:
read up on it

Anoop:
Yeah. That was, that was pretty radically different after that. Um, even when I was back in the room, so to say, I still wasn’t with the body. It was kind of looking at the body. Everything was constructed of light. So I could see that the room, what we call walls, what we call physical objects are constructions of light space. space. is not an empty thing. Space is a construction of light. Um, and it’s just beautiful. It was quite

Guy:
Yeah, no, i’ve had similar experiences. Honestly, that’s why i’m so passionate about what I do and It’s just gives me goosebumps when you share that were you actually like meditating at the time? Were you going inward or was you reaching for a cup of coffee? You’re reading

Anoop:
I was reading. I was reading. Yeah, yeah. I was reading philosophy as I was, as I often did. I enjoyed, but I was sitting there literally with a book. The book was open and I said, Oh, what is that? All of a sudden, and uh, and then afterwards I remember going into the bathroom just because I was just, it was totally bewildering as to what this was. You know, and didn’t recognize the guy in the mirror, I said. Specifically because that guy looked way too relaxed and peaceful. You know, I was, I was kind of a restless guy. You know, and, uh, but that guy looked just so peaceful. Uh, and so there began a process, probably I’d say 12 year process or so of, I call it trying to walk again, trying to figure things out. Um, I used to, I was very much, um, hung up on my intellect. So I felt like I was very smart and I could figure anything out and, you know, things came easy and things like that. And at some point in that process, that was all taken. Uh, to the point I couldn’t even, uh, understand a sentence when I read it, whereas before I could read anything from anything and teach anybody, you know, in, in minutes, I couldn’t even understand a sentence. Um, I didn’t talk to anybody about it except, you know, there, there was somebody nearby when I was doing my training who could relate. And once in a while I would see him and tell him. But that was my way. It taught me so much, you know, it taught me so much about what we call mental illness. Uh, it taught me so much about medicine, what, how we think of medicine, taught me so much about the spiritual traditions, uh, about life. And, you know, I, I, Can very grateful for that.

Guy:
Wow. Do you know who the being was that approached or can you visualize it or see it still in your in your mind?

Anoop:
Yeah. In a sense, the whole thing is still happening because, um, it’s like the choice is always there to stay or not. So it’s an active choice. That’s always being made. Um, the, the visual is, is like just an absolutely brilliant saffron blaze. That’s and it’s completely homogenous, completely, um, what’s the word I’m looking for, kind of scintillating luminous. And this being was like an aspect of this luminosity that projected forward. There was no like humanoid figure, there was no face, there was no voice. Um, it was distinct, very subtle kind of something that stepped forward for that, but had the feeling of a distinct being with a distinct intelligence that knew a lot more about me than I did. And,

Guy:
yeah.

Anoop:
So that visual is still

Guy:
Wow. And when did you decide? To start, think, I’m actually going to speak about this, because, you know, especially in the doctor academic world, many people are fighting to speak what they’re actually feeling or thinking. I mean, I literally had a neuroscientist on last week who had an awakening, and he said one of the biggest challenges is that they’re so in their heads, they don’t even know how to feel, so they can’t even think in a way that’s connected to an emotion, there’s no concept for them. You

Anoop:
Right. Right. So, I mean, for me, what I think it’s going One thing was that I had, because I hadn’t had this exposure since I was in elementary school, um, I did have some kind of language around it already. Like my, my thinking mind already had certain constructs that he could use to describe this. Um, but I never imagined that this is what it was.

And I didn’t even make that link till a long time later because When I was raised, I was always told, yeah, these flashy things happen. Don’t pay him mind. Don’t talk about them. Don’t get lost in them. You know, just keep walking, just keep going. You know, don’t make a big deal out of it. And that’s the way I took it for, I don’t know how long, maybe 10 years.

I’m not really sure. I did talk about consciousness. I started talking about consciousness very early nature of the world, nature of consciousness, all these things. But I never told that story about me, um, because of that, because I was like, all right, You know it happened it’s but what’s more important is the message.

It’s not my story That’s so important and that’s the way I looked at it It wasn’t because I was hesitant to say it or anything like that but I just was kind of going with the teaching. And then at some point I realized that people want to hear this, like this inspires people, this, this motivates people. Um, so then I just need to get over, you know, just it’s my way or the highway, you know, I’m going to talk about consciousness and that’s it. And so I just said, you know, stop being so rigid about it. So then I started talking about it and I found that when you tell the story, people are much more apt to take the next step after that and be like, okay, what does this really mean about me and about the world?

Guy:
Totally. I was going to say, like, from my perspective, it humanizes you completely. You know, it’s really nice to connect, you know, everyone I invite on the show, I really want to speak from the heart more than the head, to be honest with you, because there’s, there’s enough knowledge and intellect and everything that’s going on out there in the world and, and dive in a bit.

And the fact that you’ve been so honest about your experiences, you know, especially because we live in a society where We tend to put people on pedestals. The more academic they are, the more qualifications they are, the more money they earn. It feels unreachable sometimes. So it’s, I think it’s great what you’re doing.

Did you have any pushback at all? Like since you started talking about it and coming out and being in the position you are, or is everyone just kind of been like rallying behind you?

Anoop:
For the most part, no. For the most part, no pushback. Even writing a couple books, writing some articles. Sometimes when I, when I write articles or books and, and connect what some ancient spiritual texts and philosophies are saying. With let’s say mathematics and biology and physics. When I do that, it can be 50, 50, especially if it’s, it gets really into the public domain. Um, 55 50, Oh, this is brilliant. It’s amazing. 50. This is crap. It’s such nonsense, you know, making up stuff. And, um, I always feel like that’s a good reaction that says that you’ve said something important and can keep on clarifying that, but more generally speaking, no, I am now speaking much more to healthcare.

I made a very conscious decision in the last couple of years because I felt like I was leaving my patients behind. And so I’ve been speaking more about healthcare. I feel very strongly about healthcare transformation. Um, healthcare reform is something that I’ve heard for decades. Uh, and I think most of it is nonsense, to be honest. Uh, I think people think it’s about pharma and insurance and policy and all those things. And yes, that’s very important. Don’t get me wrong, but the majority of it is giving people knowledge. It’s awareness and practice. And I think we should own that as doctors at people in healthcare, rather than pointing the finger at the other group in healthcare, we should say, am I doing what I can do?

Am I speaking up? Am I talking about evidence based medicine and some of its misrepresentations? You know, am I telling the whole story? I think if we all did that healthcare transformation would happen on its own. So that’s what I feel passionate about now.

Guy:
Yeah, beautiful. So how do you then look at the body in terms of then healing and coming back to wholeness? Because in so many traditions and teachings, they talk about the physical body, the emotional body, the mental body, and the spiritual body, and those aspects. How do you start to break it down?

Because most people just say, I just want this pain to go away. Or I just want this disease to leave, like, you know, without

Anoop:
getting underneath it. mean, the key thing to understand is that in, in allopathy and kind of the dominant medical paradigm in the world, we believe that we can model you as a physical thing and specifically as a bunch of parts, right? Balls and sticks, what we call atoms and molecular bonds. Uh, and so all of us have been trained, I mean all of us, and especially doctors, because our careers are dependent on this kind of, this model, um, that if you put these balls and sticks together in the right way. We can get an adequate picture of Guy, um, and not only adequate, it’s good enough to make the right diagnosis and give life saving treatments, right? This is the ideology. It’s kind of strange when you say it out loud, it’s, it’s, it’s strange, um, but this is the truth. We believe that if you put the balls and sticks together, just so. The parts together just so we can get an adequate model of you to save your life, to cure disease, you know, and, and it’s just not true because it leaves out so much, it leaves out mind, it lives out emotion. It leaves out hope, ambition, dreams. love, fear, so many things. And in the model we have now, what we say is all of those things are kind of some combination of neurotransmitters. Neurotransmitters and hormones, when they’re moving around, that’s what love is, or that’s what hope is, or that’s what, you know, memories of past lifetimes are. Um, and we have this kind of unexamined philosophy that’s posing as science. So I think these are the key things to understand. Um, and we need to take a position where we say, you know what? A model of you and me as balls and sticks is not good enough. it’s it’s very good for certain things. And, and we acknowledge where it’s good and what it’s good for. And we also say, that’s not good enough though. That cannot be our complete model of a human being. A human being is not the same thing as a human body, right?

There’s, there’s more than that because a human body is there alive or dead, but a human being is not. So there’s gotta be something different and we have to model that somehow we have to at least try, and now there’s not even an effort to do that in the major, in the mainstream medical system. So that’s where all of these other traditions, I mean, they’ve solved this stuff. Centuries or millennia ago, right? So in vedanta, they offer the panchakosha model five bodies model and i’ve modified that and that’s what we use so as you said the physical body from You know the physical organism you see From the organ systems the cardiovascular system the pulmonary system the renal system to the individual organs like the heart and the lungs to the blood vessels down to tissues, down to cells, down to macromolecules and molecules and atoms and protons and neutrons and all that stuff, guy, all that stuff. It’s just the outer shell of what you are. All right? All the encyclopedias, all the anatomical textbooks in all the languages, be they Latin or English or Spanish or Italian, all of that is just the outer shell of what you and I are. That’s the physical body. Deep to that is the mental body. You can just say it’s the mind.

It’s our thoughts. It’s our feelings. It’s our emotions. It’s our dreams. It’s our ambitions. What we’re doing by calling this the mental body is we’re saying we’re not making any declarations as to which is more important the Physical or the mental we’re not even saying that the physical causes the mental nothing like that.

We’re just saying here’s the physical body It’s very important. Here’s the mental body. It’s very important, right? We’re putting these next to each other You can imagine them as concentric circles So you have the fifth physical body on the outside the outer coat Then you have the mental body underneath, which is like the sweater, right? Inner to that is the energetic body. And this is what’s diagrammed in yoga, in chakras. This is talked about in Kundalini awakening, you know, the, the flows of these are talked about as the meridians in acupuncture. Um, this is the, when we start to become a little bit less local, we’re not just here, we’re starting to spread out in our nature, right?

Just like with the mind. The physical body is here. It’s in a very particular location. Mind starts to spread out a little bit. You can feel the other guy’s mind a little bit in the room, right? Energy spreads out a little bit more, the energetic body. The second body. The second to the first one, the second is the informational body. And what does that mean? It means that at a fundamental level, we exist as information and we are non local. So there is an aspect of us, your, your physical body is in Australia. My physical body is in Northern Virginia, but there’s an aspect of you that’s in Northern Virginia and there’s an aspect of me that’s in Australia. There’s an aspect of you that’s on Pluto, there’s an aspect of me that’s somewhere else too. It’s just the deep, subtle nature. And that’s why you have things like ESP. Like, I think of something, I think of a loved one, they think of me at the same time, we call each other at the same time, right? How does that happen? It’s not because there’s something traveling across space and time really fast. It’s because at some level we share the same body at the level of information. This is the same reason why in physics we have the concept of entanglement, where you can have one particle on one side of the globe, another somewhere else, and they instantaneously mirror each other in movement. And we say, how does that happen? You’re not supposed to go faster than light. Well, because at a deep level, there’s a body where it’s fundamentally the same. It’s not transmission. It’s direct, immediate knowing as part of the informational body, right? Just like theoretically, just for fun, we can say that my right hand and my left hand know, right?

They look like they’re different hands, but they’re actually part of the same body. And therefore, they’re instantly correlated. Right? Technically, we know the signal travels, but you get the idea. They’re one body. So that’s the fifth, fourth, third, and second body. And the first body is consciousness. And the big, beautiful question here, just like we said, what is wholeness in the beginning? What does it mean to be whole? What is consciousness after all? Right? Is it just this thought that I have? Is it just something that I am conscious of? Or is there some deeper aspect of consciousness that I am fundamentally that then represents itself as information, energy? mental body and physical structure. And maybe that’s how we can heal. Maybe that’s why we can heal. So this is a much more complete model of human anatomy that doesn’t put down any system that basically says, Hey, all systems have a role here. And what’s really powerful about it is, like, we don’t have to go through the physical body all the time. It doesn’t have to be pills and surgery all the time. Maybe we can intervene at the level of the mental body. And that effect ripples out to all the bodies, right? If somebody’s sad, you can see it in their body. Why is that? Because the mind is representing itself as the body. Right? There, there are many studies now that show how tapping, tapping certain areas of the body can relieve PTSD. People that have suffered for decades with PTSD, cognitive behavioral therapy, pills, all kinds of things. Tapping for a few sessions alleviates it dramatically. Why? Intervene at the level of an energetic body, it filters through to the mental body and the physical body. So I call this multi directional healing. Instead of just starting at the physical body and crossing our fingers in hopes that it does the trick. Why not start wherever it works for you? Whatever feels like, Huh, that sounds cool. I want to try that to you. Great. And then it spreads multi directionally through the other bodies. So this is a very simple way by using a more complete model of anatomy that we can make sense of all of the healing systems around the world and try things for ourselves.

Guy:
Wow, I’ve not heard it like that. That’s amazing, mate. Makes complete sense. Now, I just want to clarify, because obviously I’m not a doctor or anything, um, that’s not being taught in medical schools right now.

Anoop:
No, not nearly, right? What’s being taught is the fifth layer, the outer coat.

Guy:
Just the

Anoop:
Which is the the physical body, um, but it’s so voluminous You know Like I said That’s why I went through that litany in the beginning from the organs To the cells and tissues and protons neutrons like all that kind of stuff because it seems so much you just think well It’s so advanced.

There’s so much knowledge. It has to be true, right? But we don’t realize that it’s let’s say 10 percent 20 percent of true. It’s true But, you know, there’s that, uh, there’s that, uh, in, in, uh, what’s it called, like, cop movies or law shows, they always say, the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So it’s the truth, but it’s not the whole truth. That’s the problem. Right? 20 percent of the truth can be very misleading. And that’s what’s happening here, where we have a very, um, well defined, elaborate model of anatomy, but it just ain’t enough. It’s very incomplete.

Guy:
And then we tend to just double down on the 10 percent or the 20 percent and just, it’s got to be more in this 10 percent and just keep

Anoop:
It’s got to be it’s got to because our whole education is invested in that, right? My sense of expertise is invested in that my salary is invested in that, you know, then all the research studies, right, all the companies that are invested in their treatments working, they’re all vested in that model of anatomy.

So there are hundreds of billions of dollars being essentially poured into a philosophy. It’s not science, it’s a philosophical perspective on who we are. And we think it’s science. because that’s all we study. We make it into science because we pour all the money into it and create the studies and therefore there it is.

But what we don’t realize is that we’re just beginning with an assumption. If you study something else, you can make that into science too. So that’s how everything gets funneled in that direction. And, and then people are afraid to kind of step out of that paradigm.

Guy:
big time.

That this is going to shift, or is shifting, because if we are being taught, like you said at the beginning, right, education is the number one key, which I couldn’t agree more with, and the way we’ve been educated at our schools. Then we can throw in religion, which is quite often belief systems as well.

Then we could throw in culture. And then other people’s belief systems that are, are raising us. And, you know, I’ve had Bruce Lipton on many times here on the show, and he speaks about, you know, from, from conception to seven years old. That’s when most of our belief systems and imprints are being within our body.

And then we’re growing up into adults. And quite often we have childhood stories playing out in adult stories per se. And all that to untangle and unwind out of is a lot. And it can be freaking hard.

Anoop:
Yeah.

Guy:
That’s the world we are living in right now. And so when I see somebody like you and reach out to you to come on the podcast, because I see you as a shining light, like truly, that’s just trying to cut through to the truth of what is. How do you feel things are right now? Where are we going?

Anoop:
I think we’re in the midst of a great change. I think we are, I think people are kind of throwing off the shackles more and more. I think we’re not buying the stories more and more, you know, this is what is good for you. And, you know, the, the educational system knows what is best, or the healthcare system knows what is best, or, you know, the transportation sector knows what’s the best mode of transportation.

And I think people are slowly learning. To maybe I can figure this out, right? Not me alone, but maybe we as a community, maybe we can figure this out together, right? Maybe we don’t need authorities telling us like what is the best thing to do? Nothing against authorities. Authorities are also part of this.

I mean, we’re all in this together. There’s not an us them, right? But when I say authorities, I mean, people who are afraid to challenge their education and what they were told, right? It’s a story of saying, Hey, we’re Whatever we have done so far is not working. And it’s having the humility to just say that it’s, it’s not working. So maybe, maybe we won’t get it right, but maybe we try anyway, because it’s not working, hasn’t worked for decades. So when are we going to say it’s time that we try, you know, and I do think we’re in that process. I think we’re seeing some of that upheaval now. I think there will be more upheaval. Um, and that’s why it’s time for us to kind of start speaking up and coming together and having these conversations.

Guy:
Yeah. Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. Like, because even the, my podcast is an indicator. I’m really seeing the last, Couple of years like, you know, it’ll get a couple of hundred thousand listens a month or more now Whereas so that to me means people are genuinely searching for something else Or, you know, especially with the conversations i’m having What do you feel then?

It’s Is the body capable of, I’m trying to find my right words here, and you would, must have seen some people’s health restored in all sorts of ways. I mean, I see it at our retreats sometimes, even just when they’ve released grief that’s been held in the body or something. And quite often we see a lot of shoulders freeing up because they tend to carry a lot of grief in their chest and their shoulders, you know, like, how do you see the What have you seen and how do you feel the body works?

Is it the case that if you set up the correct environment for it, the body actually knows what to do? And sometimes it can demystify the miraculous and what can be seen.

Anoop:
right. So I think if we have a complete model, like this complete human anatomy of physical, mental, energetic, informational consciousness, I think it gives us a good framework for understanding much better how, um, miracles are happening, what we call miracles, right? As soon as you understand it, it’s no longer a miracle.

It’s like, Oh yeah, we can do that again. Um, and I’ve talked to probably 30 or 40 people who have healed from all kinds of things. Um, that the books say you don’t heal from it, including, um, uh, whether it’s Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, advanced cancer, multiple sclerosis, um, uh, severe heart disease such that even the heart surgeons, like I can’t do anything about it, um, severe vascular disease where they say you’re going to lose your foot, can’t operate, can’t do anything anymore.

And it gets reversed. Um, I’ve seen all of this stuff and there has not been a case. Where I said, that’s impossible, or like, that doesn’t make sense. It usually makes sense. That’s, that’s really what I want people to understand. It usually makes sense. If you see a human being completely, if we buy the story that we’re a bunch of parts, it doesn’t make sense. The good news is, that’s a very radically incomplete story. So, you can, you can throw that out and say, no, no, we need to complete that story with the other parts, the other layers of what we are. And what you see is it’s always in one of these areas, nutrition, movement, connection, or rest, um, across body and mind. Um, so we always say start with nutrition of the mind because that’s what we’re doing now is nutrition of the mind, right? It’s basically hearing what is possible, hearing another perspective, hearing somebody who’s saying, Hey, this can happen or this has happened. You say, what really is that? Is that even possible? That, that mind opens a little bit, right? The walls become a little more translucent. And so, that’s where you start, some kind of possibility. Nutrition of the body, I’ll just go through these very

Guy:
Please, I’m fascinated, yeah.

Anoop:
it’s basically, um, whole foods, eliminating processed foods, and I would say plant predominant, generally speaking.

So, plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables, right? You don’t have to be vegetarian, or you don’t have to be vegan, um, but you pretty much have to eat food, which means eliminating the processed foods. And, and guy, if we just did that, at least in the United States, over 50 percent of diseases or around that would disappear just because that’s literally the stuff your physical body is made out of. Right. And that really affects the quality of thought as well. So basically eating real food is a way to summarize that movement. Everybody says exercise, absolutely exercise. The reason you exercise is because your body is kind of like a battery. And the more you move it, the more it charges, right? That’s why, if people who are sedentary, they can, there’s an association between that and low mood, right? People who are more active, they can be brighter. That mind can be lighter as well. Um, endorphins are released through exercise as well, right? So we know that, that part of movement. But range of motion is another huge one. Right? So how much, whatever joint you have, move it through its full range of motion. Um, another one is movement of emotions. As you said, grief. I’ve had people who had Crohn’s disease for decades, including bowel obstructions, including surgery to remove part of their bowel, multiple immunosuppressants, nothing was working. One session of hypnosis, everything went away. Right? So I talked to that person.

Similar story for ulcerative colitis. So many stories like this, because what we say is that the body is a pattern of the mind. And there’s no such thing as mind body divide or mind body split. Now what we call the mind is expressing itself as what we call the body. They’re one in the same consciousness at different levels of patterning and density. Um, and so just like if you want to change an icicle or a popsicle, change the liquid, change the juice and the popsicle changes. Don’t try to change the popsicle. It’s going to break. It’s going to spray. It’s going to be a mess, right? You can, you can change it. That’s kind of like surgery. You can change it and it’ll heal.

You can freeze it again. But if you really want to change it, change the water that becomes the icicle, and then you change the icicle 100%. Or do both. You can do the physical stuff and change the water as well. So that’s, uh, movement, exercise, range of motion, movement of emotions, movements of creativity, right?

So you were telling me this is your passion. Yeah. What is your passion for everybody listening? What is it that you want to say? Who cares if nobody wants to listen to it? What is it you want to say? At least write it down for yourself in a journal or tell a friend. Say it. Because only you have that thought. Nobody else does, and it deserves expression. And then finally, movement of the breath, right? So full breathing, full breaths, as opposed to the shallow, anxious breathing that’s come to, that I see in the ER all the time. And one way to, to remedy that, to engage that in the ER without having to prescribe a benzodiazepine is to be with that person and anchor your breathing and allow their breathing to start mirroring yours, even subconsciously. And if you just listen to what I said about movement, think about how powerful that is. So, there’s so much to movement. Movement is super powerful. And for anybody listening, these four, by the way, nutrition, movement, connection, and rest, if you take the first two letters of each, it spells the word pneumocor, which is the name of our company and the name of the messaging that we always say, pneumocor. And if you just listen to what I said about movement, think about how powerful that is. You can change your physiology. You can change your, the way you’re moving. You can change your thought. You can change your feeling. This is the blockbuster drug we call new book or the blockbuster drugs, not a drug, but it would, it would destroy any other drug on the market by far because it works for almost any condition. Can you imagine if a company could come up with a drug that worked for almost any condition across your life, across any age span, with generally good side effects? Usually not bad side effects. The side effects that you don’t know about, they’re usually good. Right. I mean, it is the best drug. And the best part about it is you don’t have to buy it. It’s just an understanding. It’s a realization. And all of you have this wonder drug with you. That’s really, I’m saying that as an ER doctor, you have this wonder drug, wonder drug with you start to make use of it, start to play with it, you know, start to use it because it’s not just about, you know, disease treatment, right?

On the other spectrum of that is human potential. So there’s disease reduction, there’s treatment, and then there’s like cure, there’s healing, and then there’s human potential. So when you think of a disease and treating a disease, think of human potential, which is not an easy connection to make, but it’s on the same spectrum. And what you want to do is move in the direction of human potential. And that’s what numocore activates. And you have this already. So brief interlude. So I’m going to

Guy:
I love it. Yeah. Yeah. It’s amazing, mate. It’s, I keep thinking it’s like the world’s gone freaking crazy, mate. Cause when you break it down like that and the way you’ve broken it down so far, it’s like, it’s so simple, you know, and it’s, and it’s practical and it’s doable, but yet we’re not taught it. We’re not encouraged to do it. We’re not.

Anoop:
Right. There’s no, there’s no marketing story for it, but we will change that. I want to create the best marketing story in the world for human potential for what you already have. That’s what we need.

Guy:
Totally. Please keep going. Yeah. Wow.

Anoop:
so that’s nutrition and movement. Connection is threefold. Uh, one is connecting with others in conversation, connecting with your loved ones, connecting with friends.

You know, just. Sharing your stories, being with each other, um, Connection is just another word for love, right? You’re loving each other, that’s connection with others. Connection with self is loving yourself. I love who I am. And that comes from seeing our deepest nature. And knowing our wholeness and our fullness in our deepest nature. And then, yeah, I’m always making mistakes, you know, at the level of the body, at the level of the personality. Yeah. I’m frequently making mistakes, you know, at the level of, uh, the personality interacting in the world. Yeah, I’m, I’m tripping, I’m stumbling. And, and all of that is part of the process. You know, that’s part of my expression and that kind of self acceptance and self love is very important.

And that deep inquiry into. What is, what am I really? Who am I really? You know, and, and what does that mean about the mistakes that I’m making? Are they really that big a deal? Or is it part of something bigger? That kind of acceptance and love is key. So it’s connection with others, connection with self. And one of my favorites is connection with the planet guy, which I think is, is, I think it’s like a, a secret technique that was, that developed, you know, that, that gives us this amazing connection and amazing power. Because I think one of the most powerful things anybody can do is go stand barefoot outside, uh, in the grass, in the wet soil, especially after it rains, in the ocean, you know, just connect, plug yourself in. Even if you don’t know or don’t feel anything, just do it. There are studies already showing that there’s decreased inflammation in the body when you’re in direct contact with the earth. There’s electron transfer happening between your body and the earth’s surface. You know, that can’t happen with shoes.

I think, I think shoes are great for what they are, but I think they’ve caused a lot of problems, um, fundamentally with posture and mainly with our connection with the earth. We’re supposed, our souls are supposed to be shoes. Like nature already gave it to us and we think we’re improving on it, but we’re not we’re usually making it worse So that’s that’s connection with the earth Sunshine on your skin directly contacting it fresh air in the lungs direct contact, right?

And one of my favorites I say eyes on the sky if you can Take some time every day, get outside and just look at the sky. If you can do it while you’re barefoot, even better connection on top connection on the bottom. And the reason for that is because when we look around, what we usually see is manyness is many things, right?

At the horizontal level, if you look around, you can count a hundred things if you want, but if you look at the sky is only one, whether you’re in Australia and I’m in the U S somebody’s in India, somebody’s in China, somebody’s in Antarctica, It’s one sky when you look up, right? And that has an effect on the nervous, that, that has a kind of remembering effect.

I remember something, there’s something in that, there’s something in that depth. There’s something in that unity might not be able to verbalize it. I might not be aware, but these are subconscious effects that happen. So that’s the many fold aspects of connection, the threefold aspects of connection. And finally rest.

Numocore. R E is rest. Which is of course sleep you can look up all the studies. It’s all there. I’m not going to talk about that more but what I will talk about is When we talk about rest, it’s not just sleep, I mean rest. Uh, sleep is a kind of rest, okay? Rest is not necessarily a kind of sleep. Sleep is a kind of rest. What happens in sleep? What sleeps, first of all, does the body sleep? The body never sleeps. Your heart still going, your brain still going. Your vessels are still going. Your immune system is going. So recognize everybody that’s listening. Just pause for a second and think Your body has not slept in decades, hasn’t slept. Alright, it’s still working. Maybe in the biological sense we say it’s the state of sleep, but let’s look at our practical experience. The body’s not sleeping. It’s not moving externally, but internally it’s still doing a lot. What sleeps is the mind, if it’s not in the dream state. And the dream state is not sleep. But in the sleep state, what the mind does is it withdraws the projection. So there’s no more projected experience of a world. in what we call sleep. And the key thing to understand there is when we talk about meditation, when we talk about even something like mindfulness, what we’re talking about is bringing our attention deeper into ourselves. Okay? It’s almost like a half kind of sleep in the sense that you start to have a more full picture of the world. You’re not just externalizing and understanding the world. You’re starting to see from within what the world is. And when you do that, that mind naturally goes into a state of rest. And over time, that becomes the state of the mind such that when that mind is active, when it’s active in the world, when it’s speaking or doing things or, or biking or doing sports, it’s actually still in a restful state. even if the body is active just as in sleep. So there’s some profound lessons to understand about rest there. Um, and all this stuff for the most part is free. Yeah, you got to pay for food, but you’re paying for food anyway. Just change it up a little bit. Um, but all the most important stuff, the most powerful stuff is free and you have it already. And that to me is, is a true wonder. And that speaks to the amount of power that each person has.

Guy:
wow. I keep saying wow, I like I caught myself on a lot of parts, but today i’m saying it a lot Like you break it down. So well, thank you and It’s interesting because i’m nodding my head thinking Oh, I remember bringing I started bringing that in I started bringing that you know through my life My life looks so different now to what it did 15 years ago It is not funny my how like I just had my 50th the other day And I feel better than when I did at 35 mate like truly You know, and it’s like, and you just want to pass it on.

You just want people to get it, embrace it, you know, and we stop looking outside of ourselves for something when it’s all right here within. We just need to know where to look [00:49:00] and how to apply it. And off we go, up and running. Mate, we’re coming to the end of the podcast. I really feel like we’ve captured some great things today.

I’m very grateful. Thank you. I was just seeing those two books in the back that keep catching my eye. They, did you write those?

Anoop:
I did. I did. I wrote those two books. Um, the first one was Michelangelo’s medicine, um, which I wrote soon after I finished my training that tell some stories from my training and how my, my view started to change, um, as well as some of the underlying philosophy behind these things. And. Um, how, how we could transform healthcare.

The subtitle of the book is How redefining the human body will transform healthcare. Um, and that’s talking about a more complete model of anatomy. And the second book is called, is this a dream reflections on the awakening mind? Um, and that came from getting a lot of questions, um, about the mind and about consciousness and about enlightenment and Kundalini and the nature of the world.

And, um, so eventually it wasn’t supposed to be a book. It was just, uh, replies that I had written over and over. And eventually I said, Oh, I just almost have a book here. So I put it together and that’s that.

Guy:
Oh, fantastic. And people can just get them on anywhere available pretty much.

Anoop:
You can get them anywhere.

Guy:
Fantastic. And if people want to find out more, I have no doubt people are going to want to know more after listening to the, you know, where can we send them?

Anoop:
So come to Numocore. com. N U M O C O R E dot com. And what we are doing is we’re building a platform to bring all the knowledge that we need to have about health, healing, wellness, and healthcare transformation in one place. The way I see it is we have healthcare the way it is now. And there is some future state on this planet when people just know how to heal, when we know how to heal through pneumocor, through the pneumocor, which is not mine, right?

It’s nutrition movement. It’s, it’s just human nature. It’s, it’s what sustains and develops human beings. We just know, and people are just doing it and healing all over the place and disease not even coming as much in the first place and human potential going further. That’s some future state. How do we get from this state to the future state? There’s got to be a place where we bring the knowledge together a hub Right and we start sorting it and organizing it and saying how does it apply here here here? That’s what we’re doing That’s this numocore platform that we’re building and in february and march. I am taking a course meaning i’m teaching a course on the science of consciousness and healthcare transformation that brings all of this together that talks about The nature of health, the healthcare system, the history of the healthcare system, the science of consciousness, major theories of consciousness, major philosophies of consciousness, complete model of anatomy, placebo, mind, body, artificial intelligence, um, communicating about consciousness, the major pitfalls, the, the problems and the pitfalls that many experts make in talking about consciousness, all of this. We’re going to put together for the purpose of understanding conscious more deeply, transforming our practice and transforming healthcare. So if you are a wellness practitioner or student or you support this in any way, I encourage you to sign up for this course. That’s you can go to numocore. com slash science, sign up for the course, and that’s going to be an onboarding.

So we all have some understanding, common understanding to start building the platform together.

Guy:
Amazing, mate. Amazing. Look, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, and I’m really, really happy you came on, and I can certainly pay it forward and get this out to other people as well. So, thanks for all that you do, mate. Really appreciate it.

Anoop:
Thank you, guy. I really appreciate what you’re doing and thank you for sharing the word.

You’re welcome. Thank you.